Requests from a Master Weaponsmith

Lodrelhai wrote:

Personally, I'd go with the mechanics guy on this one. The proc effect is under their juristiction.

Wodreaux@Nektulos wrote:

It isn't fair to rangers, but it does fit how ALL procs work in the game.
A good long while back, all procs worked with ranged combat. Due to the long delay on bows every proc went off with every shot. Combining the long weapon delay and haste, every ranger looked for every offensive proc they could find for any conceivable slot and stacked them up. Weapons are the easiest slots to find procs for. This lead to rangers becomming (for a short time) the number 1 DPS class in the game.
Then they got nerfed to hell and back. They still haven't recovered. Recently they gained...well...nothing actually. The point is a developer is listning to them a bit and has made some improvements but they still arn't where they should be in the game. The number of ex-rangers turned assassins should attest to this.
So what I'm getting at is: don't look to Domino to change the entire trend in procs not working for ranged weapons/CAs.

Meirril wrote:

Honestly I can understand these reasoning behind these damage procs not being allowed to trigger off of a ranged autoattack, but why would they not trigger off of a ranged combat art? Why is one class being singled out and being told ‘if you play the way your class in intended to play these weapons will get the chance to proc on 6 out of 18 of your damage combat arts, and you have to be within 5 meters of the mob to do this. So rangers will not be standing next to the mages, who will have a chance to proc on every hostile spell, they will be standing next to all the melee classes that get the chance to proc these items on every hostile CA.
There are weapons in the game currently that will proc on any CA (ranged or melee) so saying that it is not possible is not an acceptable answer, the mechanic is there, it was left in the game even after the update was made to stop allowing ranged autoattacks to proc damage from primary-secondary items
The update to proc mechanics was changed from items would proc x % of the time to it will proc x.x times per minute. Rangers do see a higher % of procs than other classes because they are firing less times per minute - but with the proc normalization each class should see the same number of procs per minute. Also with some of these weapons having a 4-6 second delay - they will not be much different than the way rangers used to be with the longer delay bows.

*RANT* First you say it will work for us, andby doing so boost our hopes that you will fix our class. Then you just p iss on us an leave us in the pit! GJ once again SOE! *RANT*

Archonix wrote:

Why do you include hostile spell effects and not ranged attacks? A spellcaster doesn't touch the mob with their weapon, as a ranged combatant doesn't, yet spells count but ranged attacks don't?

If these aren't going to proc off ranged attacks, then they shouldn't proc off hostile spells either.

Archonix wrote:

Gee thanks. Looks like Rangers have no need to purchase these MC weapons.
I would love an answer as to why rangers can't get this proc?? Not all bows have procs on them (again thanks to you guys).
Gotta love how rangers, once again, get shafted.

Rijacki wrote:

A mage is not a lot less likely to wade into melee than a ranger. Soloing rangers especially are not going to get into melee, because our melee skills are sub-par, and as such our melee capabilities on a soloing capacity are very limited. We do not want to melee when soloing except to clean up after our ranged attacks. So in this regard, we are in exactly the same situation as a mage. Melee is not somewhere that we want to be.

A grouping ranger can speak more on the grouping side. I don't group much. I do know I rarely use my melee attacks when grouping, because the mobs die too quickly for more than a CA or two. In raiding I am to understand that melee is more important, but I would expect most who raid more than casually will be looking for better than a mere Mastercrafted weapon can provide them. I think our main focus here with how Mastercrafted weapons are affected by ranged attacks will end up being on the benefits to soloing and grouping rangers.

Anekuh wrote:

Do crafted bows have the capability to be imbued? Do crafted imbued bows and crafted imbued throwing weapon thingies proc on ranged physical hits? Do crafted imbued bows and crafted imbued throwing thingies proc on melee hits?

So, explain again how rangers and those who use thown things are getting the shaft by melee weapons proc'ing on melee?

SOME of the weapons are also intended to be used by magic casters (who can't use bows or throwing things, incidentally, not that those proc off anything but their ranged attacks) and so the imbue will now proc off hostile damage spells (the equivalent, for finger-wigglers, of melee).

Rijacki wrote:

Do you actually see raid type rangers use the DiZok bow or any other MC bow????
Rangers have no use for "these" new MC weapons because to give us NOTHING. No procs period.

Rijacki wrote:

I am perfectly happy if they adjust these imbues to be placed on ranged weapons *and* let them proc off any attack as melee weapons should do. I think it would also be fair to have imbued symbol/book type items for mages so they, like their melee and ranged combat compatriots, could take advantage of imbues on ranged items proccing on any attack, since as far as I know, they can't even equip ranged weapons.

And you can't use the excuse that crafted bows have imbues. I would hazard a guess that most rangers don't use crafted imbued bows. This is especially true at the higher levels, post-Raincaller using level, but even before that, there were bows like Stormfire and Sureshot that were held above crafted imbued bows even lacking a proc because of superior stats and damage. Crafted bows have long suffered from being inferior to quite a few quested or dropped bows out there.

Gwyneth@Najena wrote:

Only a clueless ranger would.

Anekuh wrote:

Are you saying you use a crafted imbued bow? Are you lower than Rain Caller range? I could see it there, or for the Di'Zok for someone higher than Rain Caller range. But unless crafted imbued bows in levels that had a good alternative received massive upgrades since I was at those levels, then I can't say the gleaming strike proc is enough to make up for inferior stats and damage.

These melee weapon procs should proc off of melee and melee only


Otherwise it should proc off of ANY hostile attack...


Its as simple as that... why should ranged magic users get a benefit from MELEE weapons if the other ranged class can't get the benefit from MELEE weapons?


Magic users should only get a proc off of symbols or other items that can be placed in their RANGED slot

Anekuh wrote:

How many "raid type rangers" do you see using mastercrafted melee weapons though? Currently, I can't think of any in our raid alliance that do, nor any other scout for that matter. As much as I love these changes, I do accept/assume that most of my customers won't be raiders, at least not tier 8 raiders, other then maybe someone needing a weapon for an alt. I still do assume and accept that most of my tier 8 customers will be closer to 70th level then 80th.

One question I do have, will this update make GU45? I do hope so, but I could see it being large enough it might take to GU 46 (or a hotfix between the two, although it seems to important for a mid month hotfix). Just curious..and hopeful it's done next GU.

Youngone31 wrote:

You have clearly missed the point of my post.
Maybe I have not explained myself perfectly, but I understood what you were requesting and yet consider your justification for it to be wrong.
A hint for the future - when you have to resort to insulting the person disagreeing with you it is most likely that either you failed to explain yourself clearly or that you are wrong.

Certainly the keyword is situations.
They are situations in which the blessing imbue will be useful - specifically for a healer who is mostly healing,
Thus it is viable as it stands and does not need anything else
In particular it does not need a DD or even an infusion like effect.

It does not matter if it won't be useful to everybody, or won't work in a particular unusual situation, it just needs to be useful to some people in some common situation.
Those people can choose to get it.
Thus is it will be something that people might buy - which is the point of the changes.

If one choice is not useful to you but the other is then you can choose the useful one for you.
Gleaming strike will both work when stifled and give the DD you were asking for.
You even have the choice of get both and using whichever is best in the current situation.
I may do that for my fury.

I did say it was in Harclaves where were my conjie was trying to tank - one of just two places I know of where she is tougher than her tank pet, and one that causes a lot of problems for conjies.

Gwyneth@Najena wrote:

Are you joking???????? Have you been reading the same the post???
Like I said before, the new melee MC weapons are useless to the Ranger community.

I would hope that all the rangers out there would realize that even a pair of these proccing like mad off of their ranged autoattacks and combat arts is still only a drop in the bucket to their DPS.
Lets say a consistent 500 damage per proc, per weapon, at a whopping 4 procs a minute for each weapon. So 8 procs at 500 per, 4000 damage in 60 seconds. This is an extra 400 damage every 6 seconds, or a MASSIVE upgrade of:
~67 dps. And that is to take into account not using anything that may be better DPS-wise in your hands, say the Croaking Dirk to enhance poisons, or Maestro's Flame, which if I recall correctly, a 100% proc off combat arts, and either would easily be better than the 33.5 dps one weapon would give.
Mages are going to get about the same boost to their DPS, they may spike into the 50dps range from the one weapon if they have proc enhancers. That's about as good as Grizzlefazzle's wand, and still less DPS than the Bone Clasped girdle or the Mystical Orb of the Invoker. My Dirge will not lose her epic or carotid cutter, except for the rare times I actually would have to kite a mob to beat it. I doubt I will even make one of the imbued daggers for my Illusionist, since I have a staff of the impaler now.
And really, the mage actually holds the item in their hands while casting, and the melee classes use them to hit the baddies, unlike rangers who leave the swords at their hips for 95% of the combat.
Okay, okay, that last bit was a bit offsides. I know that's just a graphical look and feel sort of thing.
As a master Weaponsmith, I welcome the changes. Even though I am going to lose business when I don't get every T8 VP flagged ranger beating down my door for their own 67 dps boost. Up-and-coming characters, however will definately come knocking now, which I think is all we wanted.

I am a ranger and based on the description of how the proc will work I don't really see the problem. Its not going to proc for a melee class's CA's except when its in the primary slot (just like all other weapons currently). Caster DPS might go up a little bit. What I have a problem with is the wording of the proc. Its not just this proc either based on the wording it should work off ranged it should work if its in the offhand on a combat art, etc. The wording on all procs needs to change to reflect whats actually going on and don't assume people know how the games mechanics work. I still have complaints about itemization in this game though. A lot of classes are having issues because gear with the right stats just does not exist. Since this is a crafting thread adornments are a good example. Melee classes can just put the 12 DPS adornment on a bow or other ranged slot item and put procs on their melee weapons. Rangers for example have nothing that it is worth putting on a primary or secondary weapon slot. If we put a proc on our bows we can't put DPS on our melee weapons. I am going to leave it at that. I wrote a huge long complaint about itemization but its not worth posting.

Woodlark@Lucan DLere wrote:

Your right, these procs will not make or break the ranger class, but it will give the ranger an option to use weapons that would provide a small benefit to their primary job of dps. The fact that a fair number of rangers are actually using shields in secondary slots (which again are not out when we are using a bow) to get buffs and procs should show that rangers are not interested in the damage that melee weapons do. If there is an adamant stand that ‘we cannot have ranged attacks proccing direct damage from anything but a bow' then add a buff to the blessed spike that increases CA damage by 120 for the time on a successful ranged attack.
Again the argument of having the weapons in your hands does not fly with regards to hostile spells because as a dirge we are casting spells while kiting, and normally while kiting we are using a bow - same as a ranger, we are just attacking with spells and not ranged CA's.
I honestly think that if these procs would be activated from ranged attacks weaponsmisths would probably have more Ranger customers than any other class.