remove fighter check

Discussion in 'Zones and Populations' started by morath, Jan 27, 2018.

  1. semisus Does not play this game

    Today trying to form a grp on Ab , server is dead and no tanks
    Tired of wasting my time , this fighter script might be good for a really crappy tank who never got a grp
    But for me i never said no to tank , in ethereals i ended up tanking sometimes cause simply a lack of fighters and now i cant do this
    Its not like i enjoyed tanking and if i did i would have made a tank , i did it out necessity
    Cant even do easier heroics to try and get shinys for meta
  2. Tomshindo Active Member

    As an alternative for fighter check, how about increasing damage ?
    Already bigger? I think some healers can cover up. We will need one more healer without a fighter.
    As same as in expert heroics in the last year.
    Or how about increasing bleedthrough on self-ward on scouts and mages?
    That might work well. Of course in this case more healers can help them non-fighter tanking.

    However , those people who are prone to do solo will do ' solo '. With multiple accounts or geared-up mercs. Hmm I might see their intend.. I should not say that.

    Even whether my picture with developers are right or wrong , it's true that this fighter check affects more people than those who love to 'solo'. I hope the developers take this into account.
  3. Earar Well-Known Member

    what u get wrong is that most dps classes only need a tank for the fighter check :) ... not to stay alive. they can stay alive well enough by themself. At least most dps. (may change with experts).

    that's why the "respect the tank, the tank is the leader" is now a bit overrated sometimes.

    Only benefit from the tank, he usually sets the pace and targets. Which means others may slack a bit more. But that's it

    the problem with increasing the damage is A : damage still not high enough for HP pool and no threat (any heal can full heal blablabla)
    B : damage is too great and only a few healers can manage.
    C : damage not too high but ticking more often like the phoenix in monolith ... and here it's tricky because same ... some classes may struggle a lot more than others. Just because they weren't designed to heal that way.

    and people usually prefer to bring one healer, so they'll take the classes that can do it (like the warden was king when the phoenix still had 20 increments, because it was the best class to keep people alive without doing the script)

    then u have scripts. but it can quickly become not fun. Look torden, wind wall guy or obsidian, or mask ... those scripts, those stoneskins, the 6 mobs u have to take down slowly or u die .. the named if u dps too much u die ... well they are not fun. Scripts may force u to bring a healer or mana regen .. because u cannot burn the named. and a tank too ... but it can also make fights painfull and boring.


    what we also see in solos is some kind of damage pics. U cannot reach higher than a certain number. it also isn't fun because u worked hard for the spells and gear and u feel limited.

    but in the end all is linked. balance heals so we need to work to keep people alive, to cast heals. Then make defenses and mit more linked to buffs than gear. So it's harder for mages and scouts who aren't designed for it to become pseudo tanks.
    and then balance spells and mob's health so that u cannot do so much damage to them till u get T3/T4 raid gear.
    and then scripts to make fights more interesting and not just tank and spank.

    but to make fighters relevant truly again, u need to be sure that a dps can never tank for a long period of time a mob. that the heal won't be able to heal enough to keep him alive. and then u have a "tank" check .. that doesn't feel like one. and also make sure that at least 1 or 2 mobs in the zone cannot be one shotted. so sure, u may be able to do 1 or 2 mobs without a tank, just through dps, but you'll have a gate at some point.

    buuuuut .. not sure that gonna happen :)
    Drona and Juraiya like this.
  4. Drona Well-Known Member

    During EQ2 14 year history, were you ever able to do heroics without tank a in the current content?
  5. Drona Well-Known Member


    People will still complain they can't solo/duo/whatever heroics still. This complaint isn't really about fighters, its really about doing heroics with whatever class you have online at the time. This starts with heroics now and this will move to raids after that. People will complain, my server has low population and we don't have enough bards, chanters, healers etc can we please do raids with whoever is online. Worse still, can we do raids with 2 groups!

    The fact of the matter is, there are many MMO out there which allows you to do this and more people play these than EQ2. The reason why I like EQ2 is that classes matter and class composition matter. If you neuter the fighter class now, you set the precedent for neutering every other "needed" class too.

    Be careful what you ask since the road to hell is paved with good intentions!
    Dude likes this.
  6. shayton New Member

    Remove it and make fighters T1 dps to keep them usefull
  7. Fenin Member

    Yes, since day 1 if you brought an extra healer to make up for it. It's always been possible except sometimes in the challenge zones.
  8. Heck62 Active Member

    With +20k potency over other Archetypes and ascensions many tanks are t1 dps...
  9. Drona Well-Known Member

    With full group and very very rarely done. With the sate of the game right now, if you remove the fighter check, couple DPS can easily duo most heroic. The scale has changed greatly now.
  10. Drona Well-Known Member


    Some fighter may have more potency, but can equally geared fighters go up against the warlocks, conjurers or rangers of this world? I love to see that parse!
  11. ShadowD New Member

    I repeat Monks at the expense of their spell Dragonfire - T1 DPS.They can solo pass the heroic zone.Farm heroic zones have always been in all the addons was one of the most interesting components of the game.Of course, only very good players could do this
  12. Earar Well-Known Member

    From memory i was running with 1 tank and 2 healers. But we were wearing handcrafted, treasured gear. Best was MC .. but was rare and adept 1 spells. Few adept 3s .. my sin didn’t have much rares, they were expensive
    Also healers were quickly oom if they casted heals over and over. A little of ressource management.

    And for drona .. bring a well geared monk and he’ll be high up there. Maybe not with warlock, but with conjus and BL and rangers. Monks are crazy. Gives thel troub + swash and they are not monks anymore. They transformed into real dragons !

    Should have called my monk nagafen
  13. Earar Well-Known Member

    Most interesting ... depends.
    I’ve always found it boring personally :).

    It’s nice to do it once, prove yourself u could do it ... but took too much time
  14. Hellfiren Well-Known Member

    You all should get you view of playing EQ2 in they way it should be, its a MMORPG so keep the groups on right set up , every class has its function, the point DB made all other classes so high that its possible to solo everything is not ok for sure, and i would like DB would do a Roll BACK to the old systhem were Tanks = Tanks / DDs = DDs / Supps = Supps / Healer = Healer so this dammit discussion would have an end for ever.

    The Possibility to make a class able to do everything but not its primal job is not ok, EQ2 is a group Game and not a solo game take it for a fact an game would be much more fun.

    Tanks are no Decoration on a group, and everyone who think or play the opposite i will proove wrong, by let him or her die with aggro, thier is a old saying " if DDs or what ever has aggro bring it to tank or die " and every one who wants to be a superman and pull inc or what ever and screw the tank , for me its fun to see them on the ground and believe me i have healers with me who think same way and let you lay on the ground until finished the instance.

    In the past i kicked players from groups who keept actting like a dirty forrest pig and i will go on like this, free following the saying learning from pain guys.
  15. Tomshindo Active Member

    Indeed each archtype has their roll in grouping/raiding. But how they think tanks higher on the group and set fighter checks, I put to say that this setting will never change the situation ( the lack of fighters ) and that make worse on the AB server. It's clear that more people cannot go to heroic instances due to this check. To solve this problem, I suppose that AB server being consolidated. And then we have more fighters and there will be no problem with this fighter check. Well, at least for me it's no problem whether or not, because I am a fighter and I love to being a fighter.
  16. Eyenstein Member

    Tanks are irrelevant. This added "you must have a tank to complete this zone" requirement is the DEV team admitting that Tanks are Irrelevant.
  17. Earar Well-Known Member

    they admitted it on discord

    one of them said we all already stated. A well warded wizard can do a tank's job.
  18. Kaarkula Active Member

    Fenin... I was accused of needing a "Tin Foil hat" because I implied that the fighter/group thing is more about accounts and krono sales, than anything the Devs want to do. I know... from good/multiple sources that this is most of what is going on. However the Devs can never admit that, nor should they.

    But yeah putting my tin foil hat back on.. again.
  19. Earar Well-Known Member

    anyway now u need 3 player to do heroic at least or you are one shotted from what I heard. So if we go that way, now you need 3 account .. ooooooooooooooooooooor u could try to play with 2 other people :)

    it's easy to say they want more accounts/more money. they want to force u to buy 2 accounts.

    I'm sure the more accounts the happier they are ... but no one is forcing u. U just need to play with people. It's a MMO, not a single player game
    Drona likes this.