Remove Bulwark mechanic

Discussion in 'General Gameplay Discussion' started by Vuetee, Mar 24, 2019.

  1. Vuetee Member

    There's a lack of tanks in game at the moment. Every PUG seems to either rely on the tank making it, or typically the tank is the last player we find.

    I don't think Bulwark is the only problem, but I think removing this somewhat pointless mechanic would convince more people to take up a tank for an alt. I personally don't fancy putting any effort into my bruiser because there's enough going on as it is without needing bulwark on top.
  2. Sigrdrifa EQ2 Wiki Author

    Nothing is going to convince more people to tank for groups. I believe the reason the Bulwark mechanic was introduced was to FORCE groups to have a tank, but tanking is a thankless job and there's just a limited number of people who would rather tank than DPS.

    If you want groups to have tanks, why don't you roll a plate tank and help out? Because tanking is a thankless job!

    Instead of forcing the use of tanks, what should happen is making tanking more fun, TBH.
    Siren, Vuetee and Rosyposy like this.
  3. lcubanol New Member

    I love the Bulwark mechanic, and as a tank this is the most fun I have had in a long time. However I understand that you can't just face roll as much these days and make it as a tank. Whatever is good for the masses right?
    Drona likes this.
  4. Errrorr An Actual EQ2 Player

    Novel idea;

    Remove it from being in every encounter
    Add it to certain nameds, in harder zones.
    Consider it a deathtouch mechanic, rather than a requirement.
    Make zones unable to be tanked by scouts/mages by actually making aggro/temps essential.

    Fighters are required, but not a chore with bulwark. Some harder mobs still require you to work around it (Skill > No Skill).

    For the average joe, playing a fighter in heroic becomes plausible again.
    For the top end tank, the harder mobs will require you to work around those DT mechanics once again.
    Drona, Mermut, Rhodris and 1 other person like this.
  5. Vuetee Member

    Like this idea. Have it as the exception for difficult mobs, rather than the rule for all mobs.
  6. Nesara New Member

    i cannot put into words how much i hate the bulwark mechanic.
    Sigrdrifa likes this.
  7. Drona Well-Known Member

  8. Drona Well-Known Member

    If its not for bulwark, mages and scouts can actually tank heroics and even some raids too. Given this, removal of bulwark will lead to less fighters and not more. Only the dedicated few who get to main tank raids, will bother with fighters.

    Even with bulwark, I bet some scouts can tank T1 heroics, I don't even bother countering bulwark all the time in T1 heroics as healers can simply heal thought it and some mobs are dead well before the first bulwark call anyway! Soon, it will be the case in T2 heroics as well as people gear up.

    So before removing bulwark, other issues needs to be addressed first.

    As a fighter myself, I agree bulwark is boring mechanic to have it on every single mob....
  9. Drona Well-Known Member

    I don't hate it but I find it boring in heroics as its very easy to counter it. You have plenty of reaction time in heroics.

    Bulwark is the only time in T1, T2 and T1 Mythic raids ( I have not done others) where you actually get to feel like a tank! If its not for bulwark, you can forget about all defensive stuff and actually go out full on DPS mode as fighter.

    But I agree, bulwark on everyone single boss is boring and it should be limited few bosses per zone.
  10. Vuetee Member


    Back in the day, before bulwark existed, tanks were as common as any other archetype. Your casual player would have played a tank because the barrier for entry was lower.

    If bulwark is the only reason tanks still exist in this game, than there is another problem to address. Tanks should be required to take the hits, using a threat mechanic that is balanced with DPS. If DBG balanced properly, Bulwark wouldn't be required, but tanks would.
    Drona and NurmYokai like this.
  11. Drona Well-Known Member

    I completely agree. Bulwark is a band aid to bigger problem we have in the game ...
  12. AvenElonis Well-Known Member

    I have played a Guardian since 2004, in 2012 I took 5 years off from the game, coming back in 2017. Bulwark is annoying but doable. I like tanking, always have, but getting groups in PoM was harder than in CD. But to Vuetee's point, threat needs to get balance with where DPS is, simple as that.
  13. Sious Member

    The reason pll don't make tank alts is the INSANE amount of work it costs to get to normal lvl and that is what you need to keep agro from high dps (not letting them press all there buttons is not a solution btw.)
    We need to for a minimum to keep agro
    - Epic 2
    - Ascension (yay on lvling them and cross fingers they EVER make geomancer usefull again after all the research time i put into it)
    - get everything in expert (masters don't exist for tanks with "smart" loot)
    - work on your potency/ stamina deity levels
    - get guk shinies (a tank needs frevor)
    - run 10 milj solo's (we need stuff for our infusions)

    You just need to do so many things in order the be able to pretend your tanking the zone.
    Those things come on top of the idee that a lot off pll have that tanks have to know everything, from strats to playing GPS.

    Make tanking great again and there will be more tanks.

    I do tank on my main but i'm far away from doing top dps (10B+) but currently i'm stuck on what i could do to improve (beside swapping away from geomancer)
    Feel free to pm if you have advice ;p

    Sious
  14. Hdizzleh Member

    As a mystic, I personally HATE the bulwark mechanic.. and I'm not even tanking... With 1 crappy (5 minute recast) death prevent - specced for two triggers - our tank still dies to it more than I think should be acceptable. I also use the diety 1 trigger death prevent but thats only available once every 10 minutes. It takes way too long for our death prevents to be re-cast. If the bulwarks missed I can heal the group no problem, but the death mechanic of it on the tank in raids is ridiculous.

    It's hard enough to find tanks for groups and raids... And frankly, hard enough to find healers the past several expansions as well. I've spent the past two to three expansions solo healing our MT raid group, but this expansion there's absolutely no way I could if needed. My death prevent simply is not available enough.
    If it's not removed, I'd love to see the healers with only 1 death prevent get a 2nd one to help out a bit more. OR for us to get a damage reduction spell to help with it, since wards are worthless against it.
  15. Mermut Well-Known Member

    Tanks are 'supposed' to protect THEMSELVES from the barrage hits with their defensives. Bulwark of Order protects the group, then, in heroics, the tank needs to be able to block 3 barrage hits (5 in raid).
    Breanna likes this.
  16. Drona Well-Known Member

    As far as I am aware, no tank other than a Guardian (maybe Paladin) can protect themselves in raid from every single Bulwark using their defensives without help from healers. So either the mystic has some stoneskins which they can use in addition to the tank or they need death prevent etc. If mystics are lacking in those department and they are the solo healer, then the tank will die.
  17. Mermut Well-Known Member

    True. And I hear you on the mystic. I raid with one on my forces. They are seriously lacking in the 'death save' department. They're also light on non-wards which is really rough in raid since there are some abilities with 100% BT. Super sucks to have a billion pt group ward up that isn't taking damage while the group ticks down to yellow... especially since they stopped putting bleed through information in the logs (it USED to be there) AND most abilities don't have cast bars, so it's difficult to know when to 'save' the few bleed through tools for those ward-ignoring abilities.
  18. Hdizzleh Member

    Exactly!! I know a ton of players who have swapped to other heal classes because of the difficulty they've had this expansion. Between the bleed through and the lack of death saves, it's a pain... Pretty much just had to re-learn how to play it and make better use/timing of totemic, group heal, ancestral channeling, etc... But I personally still love my mystic, just would love to see a few improvements due to the bulwark effect. One more death save or a stone skin, or allow wards to help prevent incoming damage on the bulwarks would be wonderful!