I understand you guys feel let down by the tradeskill signature line not coming out with the launch of the expansion, but this thread needs to not keep heading the direction it's going. There is no need to assume we no longer care about tradeskills because it's absolutely false. We realized that the tradeskill questline would not be fun if we had to rush it to get it out with the expansion and instead decided to push it back a bit to make sure it's really awesome (and it is). Please, keep this thread constructive and not destructive or we will be forced to lock the thread. You are entitled to your opinions and you can post them but trying to create and pass around conspiracy theories just ends badly for everyone as all it does is set expectations that are unrealistic and get others believing things that are not rooted in facts. TLDR - Feel free to post your opinion but make sure it's constructive.
There isn't any. Sadly the truth is simply that they're under resourced and don't have a clue how tradeskills actually work.
Fine Grinja, then WHY put insane raw material requirements? Or don't you know? That just adds to the frustration for dedicated TS'ers. And go ahead, ban me again. I really don't care.
It's not just the quest line missing, Gninja. It's recipes not recognizing that you actually have the required ingredients on hand. It's ingredient lists that have no sort of semblance to the previous tiers of similar recipes, like the foodstuffs in Sage recipes. It's the crafting cloak click effect that had a zero duration on it. It's root node resources being gathered from food nodes; not just rares like in the past, but now also commons. It's telling us that the pony is not going to be updated to gather the new tier because they want people to explore the expansion, and then updating the KA plant to do the same thing the pony (and goblin) should have been updated to do. It's the tinkering recipes that produce the wrong item; at least it's a set of three, all of them making a different wrong item, so if you know the wrong recipe to use you can get the item you want. It's easy to say "only constructive criticism", but it's real hard to provide that when it seems like there's so little unit testing going on for the little amount of crafting that did make it into the expansion. Most of the above should have been caught in unit testing; they never should have made it to beta. The cloak's Proficiency effect with a zero duration is, I think, the most glaring. Did someone just code this and say "yep, that will work!" without even testing it? The only constructive criticism I can give for that is "learn to code like a professional". I hope this illuminates why some of us are feeling like crafting is now the red-headed step-child of EQ2, and why we are losing both confidence and patience with the game.
They are higher, probably too much so, but not "insanely" so. Here's a fair comparison: The fuel cost jumps out, at more than 3 times the cost. Not sure it really means all that much since most of these things are part of writs, which refund fuel costs. Other than that, the new item has 16 raw materials used, the old have 11. I think it should probably have been more like 12 or 13. I suspect that the increase is due to the abundance of bountiful harvest items and buffs, but still seems a little high. Once again, I would like to point out how completely "wrong" the recipe is though. The old recipe uses leather, root and metal to make a leather armor piece. Makes sense! The new one uses . . . wood? That just seems wrong.
OR.... Just put orange recipes back onto multiple crafters so they are all relevant for one reason or another .
Its not putting guild harvesters and ponies in on the release, so that we can at least get a little help leveling. Roots coming off 2 nodes. Rock ferns being the rare raw coming off the nurseries but yet need as main ingredient for the writs of provies (using 10) and then also for sage as well. Not sure if other crafters use, sure they do. Made the grind to 110 crazy, but I made it on 2 toons and heading for another. Cool that you will release it soon, but I sure hope you make the item from it super crazy to help with crafting or harvesting. All the above also just made it crazy, with rares not being able to be used etc. I've seen dozens of advanced provisioner 110 books, but no others. Are they even in the game?? The excuse for the first line, the delay in putting in ponies and guild harvesters was to get out and explore the xpac. 14 hours after launch on madjul we had someone level 110, sig line done and upgraded, and all 3 factions complete. Raids are starting to happen. I just really hope that this fun and awesome tradeskill line comes orange adornment recipes, guild harvesters and pack ponies being brought back, and a nice item to boot in the end. (maybe something with bountiful harvest on it like the shawl from DOV expac.
Don't forget the lower yield for ammo recipes having to use more mats and fuels which needs to be fixed ASAP
You might want to count again. 5 pelts + 3 ore +3 roots + 3 metal = 14 materials on the Thaumbral shoulder pads. What really changed is the amount of pelts used. What it looks like dev did was to skew the number of materials used to fit better with the use across multiple classes. There are a lot of "junk" materials in the game. Wood, Pelts and Fish really don't have a lot of use. Every class uses roots. Almost every class uses substantial amounts of metals. I think the current recipes are an attempt to make the high demand nodes a little less high, and use more of the 'junk'. This has all been stuff I've complained about for years. Its really strange hearing people complain about it. And as for fuel...look back at AoM. 25 fuel to make a handcrafted.
Sages shouldn't have to use food items to make spells, just like alchemists shouldn't be using stones to make potions. Roots are on double nodes now. Since they don't release something that supplements forms of harvesting we're already to harvest for hours and then hit up TSing, burning through all those raws in a matter of 30 mins if you have 2 tradeskillers rocking writs.. makes total sense.. Wood has use... arrows and if they would've put in upgraded totems.. pelts for leather armor, bags (oh wait they didn't put bags in).. fish for.. wait for it... FOOD....
I see a lot of complaints in the above statements and threads . from what components are used in what recipes, like fish in a sage spell (like fish skins and glue have never been used to make books and paper) or how much a recipe uses.. all issues I can actually live with. (no ones even touched the point the devs let the trade skill community froth at the mouth over the pony's while never mentioning the upgrade to the in house gobinflower harvest node) What's really frosting me is that the lack of a trade skill quest line has narrowed the leveling options for trade skilling over level 100 to , 1(one). writs , the same two or is it four recipes for nine levels. The excuse for this was a time crunch.. but you had time to write the code that excludes level 100 trade skillers from gaining experience from the hero's festival trade skilling , the city festival trade skilling and now the frostfell trade skill instances and I don't doubt the regular trade skill instances and the moonlight enchantment trade skilling instances will be included in this exclusion. if you had time for that .... ? and the cherry on top .... why !? why cut the tradeskillers out of benefiting by leveling at these events ? your reasoning ??
Alchemists have always used items from stone, ore, root and garden nodes to make potions. They also use to use items from Mushroom nodes when those were still around. Funny thing, crafting now isn't like it was in beta. Things change. As long as the reasons behind those changes are solid, it is a good thing, isn't it? Seriously, just how are Sages HARMED by using fish? Explain this please. If you expect things to change back to how it was in a previous tier, please explain how the change is bad instead of just saying it changed and you can't cope with it. And Fish has always been under used. Most of the long duration food recipes do not use fish. Very few drink recipes use fish at all. It would be easier to argue that fish nodes should be eliminated than it would be to argue that previous tiers have enough uses for fish. Adding fish into recipes for non-provisioners might elevate fish from trash to at least occasionally sought after. Heck, I can guarantee my harvesters need to work their fishing up at least a tier because there is no demand for fish in AoM+ crafting.
Trying to elevate fish above what it is now is the problem. Fish nodes are not like other nodes, not in the slightest. Setting fish aside for a moment, consider every other node type. You simply wander from node to node - anywhere on land - and you'll get what you're looking for and everything else. You can just chain harvest node to node and continue to gain stuff you need. The nodes are generally pretty close together, rarely seeing more than a few seconds between finishing one node and starting the next. You can generally see the next node from the one you're currently harvesting. Every single node you hit also has a chance to give you a rare harvest which is more valuable than what you would normally get. Fish is nothing like that. When you are harvesting fish, the nodes are far more spread out. Sure, occasionally there will be three or four right together, but generally not. Next, you cannot see the nodes at all, until you are right on top them. You can't simply bounce from node to node like you can overland. If not for track harvestables, you'd find fish to be incredibly hard to find in any sort of quantity. And rares? Nope. None. When swimming, you know, where the fish are, many of your movement speed buffs are gone, and you cannot easily get airborne to gain them back, making moving around to the more spread out nodes that you can't see even slower. And somehow this is what we want? NO THANKS.
I'd like to point out that some of us will not be leveling all our crafters via the writs. I will level my carpenter via writs because I want to make the furniture. I will wait for the TS questline to level the others. I know some of you will not wait and will grind the writs, but please don't assume that some of us are not waiting for the quests.
So fish has been under used what the !@%$ has that have to do with making sages need to use them to make spells. Why don't we go back to when you had to make your own quills (or buy them from a wood worker), buy paper from who made it it, ink from an alchemist. They realized then that was far over complicated and now they are adding fish.......Are you that Plat hungry so you put fish up there to sell it?
It's not the fish in the recipe per se. It's the fact that the devs have broken consistency with what came before, for no apparent or expressed reason. If it was changed for a reason, why not explain the reason? Sans such a reason, we are left to consider the change as the result of either a lack of knowledge of how recipes were previously built, or lack of consideration of said knowledge; either of these is not a pleasant prospect for future game updates. As I indicated earlier, the lack of programming care shown towards crafting is the crux of the issue. Not bothering to know how the Sage recipes have been previously built, or knowing but not caring to replicate that pattern, or having a super secret reason for changing the recipe pattern that the players are deemed not privy to; do any of those seem to engender trust and confidence in the development effort?
Sigh. Read between the lines. Fish is for provies. If I 5 guildies harvesting and two of them are provisioners and three are sages, then they are losing the raws needed to trade-skill via writs. Does it harm us. No. Is it Annoying because we already have to harvest for hours to level, yes. How about since we can get thousands of roots that sages use root and pelts for spells. Ie they are writing on parchments. Almost every class uses rock ferns, another food node item, and yes it is the common for most trade skill writs requiring 10 of them as main ingredient. Then sages use as a secondary item needed for writs, but we are usually out because provies have used them all lol. I can cope with anything that is thrown at me lol. Been doing that since release of the game. It doesn’t mean we as players can’t post our opinion and hope it gets reviewed.
If we weren't talking about PoP all of this is valid commentary. However, when talking about PoP, harvesting in general is a PITA. The distance any node is drawn is miserably small. While there are small clusters of nodes where they are placed close together, the vast majority of nodes are spaced far enough apart you need Track Harvestables to find anything. So complaining that fish nodes are hard to gather is not unique in PoM. If anything, the draw distance of Fishing Nodes is actually better. So is the range you can harvest Fishing nodes. What is worse about PoP harvesting is the Fishing nodes aren't as clustered as they are in lower tiers. Yes, PoP fishing is actually harder. However, when compared to every other resource you can gather Fish way faster. From any fishing node you are almost guaranteed to be within tracking distance of another fishing node. Also there are no hostile mobs in the ocean. If you go up the rivers and into the marsh you'll find hostile mobs in or lining the river/marsh. it is true that there are no 'rares' on Fishing nodes. There is the same ultra-rares on the Fishing nodes as there is on every other node. PoP Fishing doesn't include collectibles like they did in ToT. So yeah, you missed out on collecting more rare roots. It would of been good if Dev decided to make the fishing nodes more interesting, but its not really game breaking that they decided to go with status quo on them either. One thing to say, while fishing nodes are not something you'll wander across often while gathering other resources if you go out to gather fish its a heck of a lot easier than oh say gathering roots. As far as targeted harvesting is concerned, its a heck of a lot more efficient and less dangerous.
