50% increased damage means AoEs (even TRASH) AoE's hit twice as hard It does not stop you generating massive hate from self/buffed hate as well as taunts on abilities; -30% hate gain is NOTHING 100k DPS, 20k Taunts, 100% Hate gain = 240k Threat 200k DPS, 15k Taunts, 70% Hate Gain = 365.5k Threat So the biggest agro problem is not from your 1.5M sorcerers but your 400k SKs casting Chaos constantly (as it is their best DPS spell... it also generates massive hate although positions removed. As I said at the start this is what they should have done: So Fighters will choose between hate gain and defensive standing in front of the mob to take the hits. OR Offensive and utility doing more DPS from behind the mob but with the option to rescue in take over. Fighters are NOT asking to be T1 DPS; personally I just want the option to go offensive when I'm not needed to tank and not feel as if I am going to die every AoE. (recklessness) or that being in offensive was pretty much nothing and very similar to defensive (current offensive/defensive stances). If you remove the global recklessness and buff up the fighter offensive stances you can really tailor the offensive stance to each class buffing themselves and their group. e.g. Shadowknights could gain Spell Double Attack and Flurry on Deathmarch as well as a personal increase to potency Paladin's could gain a Weapon damage bonus when using a 2hander and proc groupheals/cures on attacks Berserkers could gain a personal crit bonus buff and weapon damage modifier added to their group berserk buff Guardians could gain weapon damage bonus when NOT using a shield and proc a max health buff Bruisers could gain flurry bonus and proc crit bonus to the group on attacks Monks could gain a massive damage proc off *every* attack and proc AoE avoid on attacks. of course being in offensive should have a downside e.g. Caster takes 50% more physcial damage Caster takes 20% more magical damage. Caster can no longer block attacks with a shield. Increasing magical damage (which it stands currently) only means fighters in recklessness actually take SIGNIFICANTLY more damage from AoEs than mages so no fighter can use recklessness on a named; nor on any trash which has AoEs (which is a lot these days); even if you change nothing else about recklessness reducing the amount of magical damage fighters take when using it so it isn't so much of a death sentence it can be now. Thoughts?
I can agree that aoe:s on some fights are just meh if you are in reckless not to talk about the hate... But tbh i like having 3 stances as it is now... As a zerk i mainly use the Ostance when tanking. I take abit more damage but its ok on easier fights. And bring up the Dstance when i need to be abit extra defensiv. Reckless when im not tanking anything. Tbh i think they just need to make all taunt effects detaunts for tanks... Thats how i see on it anyway. I dont want to lose the Ostance as it is a midd stance imo... Rather see tweks on reckless if anything...
well my thought (hope) was they should sort defensive stance out. e.g. remove -c/s/p add ST/Hate and put all the benefits of offensive stance on our self buffs, that way they can concentrate on making offensive stance a viable option. As it stands there is virtually no difference between defensive and offensive stance... but swap into recklessness and BAMN first AoE which makes shrug off you're asking for a rez.
Not for pallys maybe but berserks have a dmage proc on it. Same as bruisers. Both crusaders have a large amount of sta added to the dstance so there is difference betwen them. Guards get block added to theirs and not to talk about the deflection brawlers get on the dstance and CB on o stance. I just what tools i have to reduce the inc damage from aoes. And it works fine on a zerk. Sometimes i might die and i agree that we take a huge increas in damage when in this stance but tbh. I rather see them keep everything as it is than mess around with the ostance. I like having a midd stance. Maybe its just me but i would hate to see them change things.
Reckless should just be for pure dps to bring in low dps tanks (i.e guards) in to play if they are not tanking or off-tanking. No hate should be associated with it. It is so easy to rip aggro from a tank in this stance which completely destroys it intended function. Defensive should just be that = Defense -- To survive (inherent hate should be generated by taunts and passive hate gain) Offensive= DPS at the expense of defense but not taking truckload of damage. ( hate generation split between dps and taunts) Reckless= Pure dps= no hate generation whatsoever. (all hate spells/taunts translated into dps, no hate gain) Essentially in reckless tanks should not be pulling aggro at all. and Remove that God-awful stance change mid-combat hp penalty.
Recklessness isn't meant to make tanks a pure DPS class like other DPS classes. Its meant to make it so they are of some use if multiple tanks aren't needed. So if you are thinking that they should be able to perform like a predator, rogue, sorcerer or summoner in every way you are already starting with a faulty premise. All the drawbacks you are talking about are intended to balance this out. Complaining that a stance called 'recklessness' is hard to keep in check is laughable to say the least. I'll support the changes of making the tanks able to be pure DPS classes if they put in a stance for other classes to completely fill another role different from their own. I'm looking forward to my dirge stance on my ranger.
Not that i want the changes that Boli asked for. But there was a reason for tanks getting this stance. And if you cant see that you are just dumb. How many tanks are needed on a raid vs dps healers and utility. Most dps classes even got some nice utility now. So asking for another role to fill for a dps that fills up alot more spots than a tank does is just stupid.
Lets not even look at raiding and non-tanking. Having a switch fighter along on a raid means less buffs or DPS than a true DPS class. Reckless stance is more for group content and soloing. For soloing, it is just fine. Solo mobs do pathetic amounts of damage anyways. For group content some tanks do well as DPS, with less survivability than DPS classes. Considering that isn't a fighters role, I'm ok with that. I'd like to see all fighters brought up to about a level playing field in Reckless stance. The 2 crusaders getting a bigger benifit isn't what I consider desirable. I'd like to see a bit added to the warriors to bring them up to match the rest. If stances are going to change, I'd like to see Defensive stance add damage reduction (like say 10%) and drop the skill adjustments. I'd like to see Offensive stance changed to be a threat modifying stance, say proc threat on a raid member being hit and a positional proc added to some abilities. No DPS adjustment on Offensive stance, and no skill modifiers. Change Reckless stance to make taunts decrease threat and remove positional changes. While in reckless stance +hate gain should be reversed. Keep the incomming damage mod since a reckless tank should be kissing dirt in exchange for doing something his class really isn't ment to.
I think that the disparity with Reckless comes from the brawler/crusader vs Warrior problem. The class mechanics just mean some do not benefit from Potency such as Guardians who have very low hitting CA's. Guards are the defense tank and I like that I wouldn't main one if I could do damage and tank exceptionally well. IMO Reckless should have 25% base potency and 25% base Critical bonus and make it multiply both stats by 150% instead of 200%. Thus balancing the gains for CB tanks (Warriors) and Potency tanks (Crusaders) as well as the tanks that need them both (Brawlers). As stands I think the defensive stance and offensive stances work just fine they are minor changes to your base abilities.
You really think that reckless stance is not ment for raiding..... giving a tank the ablility to put out more DPS while not tanking is the whole point of the stance so that a tank in reckless can fill that last spot you need and put out some DPS. If you ever looked at the old forums or paid attention to the patch notes raiding is the whole reason we go the stance.
Main issue I have is recklessness was designed to be used by "none tanking" tanks... in raids or group content... except due to the massive damage increase from magical damage it is not a viable stance due to any trash AoEs one-shotting any reckless tank. AoEs which mages and scouts can survive on, but reckless tanks cannot. That and there *is* an issue in that some classes benefit more from reck than others... so you should of at the very least given separate bonuses to each tank class instead of just a global (and quite frankly overpowered) massive potency buff which benefited some classes more than others.
If your reckless stance tank is constantly getting one-shot by every AoE.. it's time to look at what your healers are (or more accurately AREN'T) doing...
Its not just the healers that do not heal. Magical Resist all classes have kinda much the same off. In reckless a tank take 50% more damage from magical aoes. And tbh most scouts have higher HP than tanks. And some even aoe blockers. You can stoneskin it or try and block it tho. But reckless should have been 50% physical damage and 20% magical damage increas or something imo. The only problem i see with reckless atm is the hate. You rip it so easy... even with 0% hate gain. Taunts/taunt effects should be deaggro imo.
it's a dumb ability and that's why everyone has issues with it. players who like it (mostly tanks) think it's not balanced among tanks and increases inc damage too much players who don't like it (mostly dps classes) think it makes certain players/classes way too powerful in the right group. what's the fix? make reckless good for the entire group not just the tank. why? because it gets that 4th tank in the raid with OUT taking another classes role. such a bad idea this reckless thing. hope one day it gets turned into something good .. lemons to lemonade type deal
If you want to stay alive in reckless stance, make nice to your healers; a tank in reckless takes constant babysitting to keep alive. Generally, if a tank says something to me before going into reckless I will mash away at my keyboard to keep him alive. However, if there is no warning, or the tank is jerky about it, said tank will die to every AoE. The degree of fragility seems a reasonable trade for the increased dps output--for crusaders, at least. Naturally, this applies only to a non-tanking tank on trash encounters.
The biggest issue with it is -30 hate gain isn't remotely enough. So if your a fighter that does swap reckless, your also swaping a bunch of gear with -hate in order to go all out and not rip.
Yep. I posted this in "another forum" back in August, following the increase to incoming damage: Also, there's the problem with Recklessness of mobs getting away from the main tank and needing to be corralled. In O-stance, you don't have to think twice about picking it up. In Recklessness, you have to hope that CF, AoC, or DS are up--and then that the mobs don't double-up with multi-attacks + spell damage before a healer can target you. Yes, the potential for Recklessness in theory is off of the charts. In reality though, it is highly situational and, if used...recklessly...will end up with you taking more dirt naps than it's worth. The mechanics behind hate management and aggro control are wonky enough as it is, taking mem wipes and other fun factors into account. These "fun" mechanics combined with Recklessness and the seemingly innate hate possessed by most fighter classes makes it nearly useless in the situations for which it was originally intended. TLDR: It has pretty much been neutered to the point where I wouldn't miss it if it was removed. It no longer occupies my hotbar.
Taking 50% more damage from indirect abilities has been silly since implementation. Yes it makes the Stance more vulnerable to death, but it doesn't make it impossible to stay alive by any means. Still though, if it was simply 50% (or higher) increased damage when it is direct only (IE auto attack, targeted abilities, etc), it would make more sense IMO. But really, fighter DPS is pretty far behind when not in this overpowered stance.
A tank should not in any way whatsoever be able to provide any modicum of a tank role whilst even attempting this stance.... Also switching from one to the other should equal a dirt nap.... if that is not the case Id like the ability to be MT or Mt group heal or MT group buff please... as it is my main class will never even manage any of those anyway. Seriously who really thought giving 1 group the role of another group... but not give that to any one else ? /boggle
And yet people say nothing about the role that gets more slots than any other, utility/buffing. Literally no class, except for MAYBE beastlords, can come close to fulfilling as many roles in an adequate manner as fighters now and you're still complaining it isn't good enough. Only time my raids/groups had problems with fighters being in recklessness is when ALL of them were in it and they couldn't keep aggro, and you people are complaining about too much aggro. Sounds like if you want to use recklessness maybe surround yourself with people who can play their roles. Recklessness fighters aren't meant to be perfectly adequate replacements for DPS classes. So again if this is your line of thinking, you are wrong. So sorry your secret dreams of being a full time DPS fighter aren't working out. Recklessness doesn't work wholly as good as a DPS class? Working as intended. The End.
