Recent thoughts on some of our more lackluster aa's

Discussion in 'Monk' started by ARCHIVED-Lorrn, May 1, 2010.

  1. ARCHIVED-Lorrn Guest

    Ok so the last few days ive been thinking about some things as far as monk aa goes.

    I like pretty much everything in the brawler tree as is. theres some things that coudl get a tweak but overall its a solid tree these days.. although i wouldnt mind if the int SF endline was changed to not require Eagle Shriek.

    shadows tree is also pretty solid.. although im with everyone else on changing meditative mending to how it was in the scrapped fighter revamp from last year.

    so that brings us to the monk tree which is full of stupid.
    so heres my thoughts. keep the combart art dmg modifier aa's as is, they are fine. keep the tanky stuff as is but please put it all in the same line. all the tank stuff shoudl be in the awareness line and aything that de-agros us at all shoudl jsut be scrapped entirely. change awareness endline back to evade check before the change. scrap mongoose altogether or you can keep mongoose but move it to a new line entirely called the spirt line.
    so bascially body line stays the same. combos line, move crescent strike to this line.

    awareness line as such
    includes dragonfire, silent threat, challenge, tranquil vision.. but change tranquil vision, getting rid of the hate transfer and instead make it so that we can add risposte chance to it. something in the like of .5% chance per rank 5 ranks. so it woudl then provide our target a total of 2.5% uncontested risposte chance along with the 54% chance for them to use our avoidance. give us a reason to WANT to spend the aa's in it. and not cause we have to to get to dragonfire.
    new line Spirit line. this woudl be the more dps spec line instead of us having to blend a tank line with some dps garbage liek we have currently.

    ok so what woudl be here
    i have a couple ideas.
    mongoose stance woudl go here but woudl change completely form the garbage it is now.
    mongoose stance:this woudl provide an alteranate to dragon stance.
    5 ranks. gives the monk a 3% chance per rank to proc a poison DoT on the ENCOUNTER. 5 ranks
    rank 1 - does 120-160 poison dmg to encounter instantly and every 3 seconds for 15 seconds
    rank 2 - does 150-200 poison dmg to encounter instantly and every 3 seconds for 15 seconds
    rank 3 - does 190-240 poison dmg to encounter instantly and every 3 seconds for 15 seconds
    rank 4 - does 230-280 poison dmg to encounter instantly and every 3 seconds for 15 seconds
    rank 5 - does 300-450 poison dmg instantly and 280-330 poison dmg every 3 for 15 seconds.
    this woudl be what it would look like to a level 90. and mongoose stance would function the same as it is now and woudl require dragon stance to be off.
    other things in the line ive thought about.
    enhance: lightning palm : reduces the recast of lightning palm by 2 seconds per rank 5 ranks.
    enhance: devastation fist : reduces the recast by 10 seconds per rank and increase base dmg of the melee hit by 1% per rank 5 ranks
    Alternate : Rampaging Flame : functions much like mongoose/dragon rage. grants a new buff that cancels everburning flame when used. has the same health over time cost but instead of granting attack speed, grants a raw DPS buff at 4% per rank for 5 ranks ending in a 20% DPS mod when the buff is on.

    Spirit Tree endline:
    Cyclone: Temp buff: For 20 seconds the monk will flurry on 50% of auto attacks. 5 min recast.

    and of course this woudl have ot be tested to hell and back to get the percentages and dmg proc amounts and such in line so not to be overpowered. but i dont think it woudl really need ot change much. when we spec dps we already become as squishy as a chanter so we shoudl have higher damage when specced that way.

    so any thoughts? keep the flames to a minimum and for any morons that decide to post moronic dribble that brawlers outdps other fights im throwing the BS flag at you ahead of time. no other tanks have to become as squishy as we do to get the same dps as other fighters. for being that squishy we shoudl be outdps'ing them on singel target fights easily and we arent.
  2. ARCHIVED-AustinB Guest

    I agree that our AA's could really use some beefing in certain areas. I'm not going to comment on the suggestions you posted other than to say that I generally agree with them. With that being said I would like to add some of my own personal suggestions:

    These are only suggestions, some of these are a lot more pertinent to strength of the monk class and some are just minor suggestions that "would be nice". This is also, for the most part, not an all or nothing list.

    TSO Tree
    This tree is very solid overall, but I still think it could be made slightly better.

    * "Deflecting Blows" in the brawler shadows tree should be a percent based damage reduction. I would suggest 0.5% to all incoming damage per rank. Most other percent based reductions are on melee, so this would be at least partially unique. Alternatively I would suggest 1% per rank of physical only damage reduction.

    * "Meditative Mending" in the monk shadows tree should be modifiable by crit chance, crit bonus, potency, and ability mod. The ability should also work on any incoming damage that is greater than the damage threshold instead of only physical hits as it currently stands.

    Brawler Tree
    I think this tree has a fair bit of room for improvement, but it is overall a good place to spend AA.
    * "Eagle's Patience" in the brawler intelligence line should be a passive effect that automatically triggers (with it's current effect) whenever Eagle Shriek activates. The requirement that the brawler be under 50% for the stoneskin to actually trigger should be removed. If this is implemented it might also be required that proc have an internal timer that prevents it from triggering too often, if this is the case I would suggest that the timer be no higher than the current reuse on Eagle's Patience.
    * "Favourable Wind" in the brawler tree should also add mount speed and should also work while engaged in PvP combat.
    * "Ambidexterity" in the brawler agility line should also add 1.2% casting speed and recovery speed per rank in addition to the reuse speed it currently adds.
    * "Brawler's Tenacity in the Sentinel's Fate brawler tree should last until cancelled or both trigger of the death save have been used.
    * "Altruism" in the brawler agility line needs to be revamped (it is worthless to get this ability under any circumstances in my opinion). This would also mean that "Monkey Wisdom" in the Sentinel's Fate, brawler-agility line would need to be modified as well. I would personally suggest keeping this as some kind of group utility ability that still relates to (the brawler) tanking. My favourite idea for this ability would be a proc that occurs on any successful avoidance check by the brawler. Perhaps a buffs that increases the casting, reuse, and recovery speed of the group by 5% for 5 seconds whenever the brawler avoids an attack (alternatively it could increase potency and / or crit bonus). Monkey Wisdom could than enhance this a further 0.5% per rank.
    * "Swift Wings" in the brawler wisdom line should be changed to be a passive 5% AE auto attack per rank. Brawler's are the only fighter that cannot spec for this AE auto attack and it really hurts us in AE fights (in my opinion). Granting us the same AE auto attack as the other fighters would just put us in line with them.

    Monk Tree
    This tree is a mess. Way to many points are spent doing the same thing just on a different ability. It is also the only class tree in the game without 4 endline abilities, it only has 3, and they aren't even that good.
    * Merge the effects of enhancements to Waking Dragon, Five Rings, and Silent palm into 1 AA with 5 ranks. It should have five ranks with each rank giving 5% reuse and 15% casting and recovery to all jab attacks (the CA's listed above).
    * Merge the effects of the enhancements to Roundhouse Kick, Rising Phoenix, and Rising Dragon into 1 AA with 5 ranks. This AA should increase the potency of all kicks (the ones listed above) by 5% per rank.
    * Merge the effects of the enhancements to Frozen Palm, Striking Cobra, and Arctic Talon into 1 AA with 5 ranks. Each rank should increase the hit chance by 5% and reduce the power or health cost by 7% for all punches (the CA's listed above).
    * Replace "Mongoose Stance" with "Enhance: Dragon Rage". I would suggest each rank adding 1 PPM to the Dragon Rage buff with the final rank making Dragon Rage proc on the target encounter.
    * Change "Enhance: Tranquil Vision" to proc a taunt or a detaunt depending on the class of the recipient. This proc would occur whenever the monk avoids an attack through the avoidance transfer. Additional ranks spent in the AA would increase the magnitude of the taunt or detaunt.
    * Change "Evade Check" so that it lowers the threat position of the most hated non-fighter to the target encounter by 1 position. The reuse speed may need to be increased to go along with this, perhaps 1 minute would be good.
    * Change "Combination" so that it easier to trigger and also increase the duration of the reactive debuff it applies so that it is actually possible to use all three triggers. I would suggest increasing the time allowed between each combat art landing by 1 second. I would also suggest increasing the duration of the reactive debuff to 10 seconds.

    A fourth line needs to be added to the monk tree to bring us in line with all other classes. I would suggest perhaps combining aspects of the other AA's in the monk tree to design this tree. Some suggestions for possible AA's that could be added to this tree are:
    * Ability 1, "Offensive Mastery" (5 ranks). Each rank grants 0.5 potency, 0.5 accuracy, and 1% casting, recovery, and reuse speed. This essentially combines the different aspects of combinations line into AA that grants a little bit of each, but to all abilities.
    * Ability 2, "Toughened Skin" (5 ranks). Each rank would add to an amount equal to the monks current level to all resistances (physical, elemental, noxious, arcane). This would grant 450 to each resistance at L90 with 5 ranks spent. This grants the monk a decent bit of extra mitigation, which is something we can really use in general.
    * Ability 3, "Controlled Demeanor" (5 ranks). Each rank would add -1.5% hate mod to the monk naturally, but also add +3% hate mod to Dragon Rage. The end result (at 5 ranks) would be -7.5% hate mod while Dragon Rage is inactive and +7.5% hate mod while Dragon Rage is active. This would effectively replace the need for Mongoose Stance
    * Ability 4, "Unbalancing Attacks" (1 rank, 3 points). Adds a passive proc to the monk that would apply a debuff to the target, causing the target's next auto attack to miss. I would suggest 2.0 PPM.
    * Ability 5, "Deflection" (5 ranks). Each rank reduces incoming damage from double attacks, flurries, and AE auto attacks by 3%.
    * Ability 6, "Perfect Form" (1 rank, endline ability). This ability would stack with its self whenever it procs and each proc would have a 30s duration, although the proc could stack no more than 5 times. All procs active on the monk would dispel when the monk is damaged by a melee weapon. Each proc would add 5 attack speed, 1% accuracy, and 1% minimum block. The ability would proc whenever the monk avoids an attack. Essentially this ability is designed to help negate some of the downsides of our defensive stance (while also providing some enhanced defense), which should hopefully help out our DPS output (primarily for agro reasons) while tanking.
  3. ARCHIVED-Lorrn Guest

    hmm.. good ideas there as well.
    i absolutely agree with your thoughts on meditative mending. if it stayed as is and was effected by our stats and proced off all dmg 40%+ of our hp that woudl be an excellent change.

    I agree on your brawler tree assessment as well. although i think the tree is pretty decent some tweaks here and there woudl also be quite nice. I especially like you thoughts on the AE auto attack.
    and yes Tenacity shoudl be maintained until it procs and then have ot wait the recast much like bloodletter.

    yeah pretty much i like your ideas here. some good stuff there.
    I especially liek perfect form.. that really would do nicely for tanking. very nice hwo it offsets the offensive skills decline using accuracy stacks. and hey who woudlnt mind some additional minimum block every now and then. im iffy on the haste though. if im tanking even in defensive im usually still at at least 119% true haste flooring my weapons delay so not sure what benefit it woudl have outside of tanking with 4.0's which i havent gotten yet. but how much of a difference is 119% vs 125% on a 4.0 weapon. if my math si right in my head is only a .12 second difference give or take. not a very big impact i dont think.. perhaps change that to either a dps mod addition or something else like a small base auto attack mod or some such.

    overall i liek your ideas as well as my own .. some great stuff there that coudl really help to address the insufficiencys of monk aa when compared to every other fighter type.
  4. ARCHIVED-AustinB Guest

    I added the haste because I usually am not in a group that gets a lot of haste buffs so I figured I may as well add it on in my suggestion.
  5. ARCHIVED-BChizzle Guest

    Our class doesn't need the type of overhaul you guys are asking for and some very simple fixes would be fine for us.
    Fix 1 increase our single target dps (make mantis bolt hit harder and increase our CA's across the board plus make combination crit.)
    Fix 2 make med heal actually useful (It should crit and be effected by base modifiers)
    Fix 3 Up the proc rate on cranetwirl (With anashti's charm, cob, healer buffs and the trickster bracelet going you can actually see how great this AA can be unfortunately very few of you will ever experience it.)
    Fix 4 Itemization, please stop screwing us over on items.
  6. ARCHIVED-AustinB Guest

    We could be "patched up" with a relatively small number of changes such as you have suggested, but I don't believe that to be the best solution to the problem. I really think the underlying issues need to be fixed or else we will probably be playing catch-up each expansion, hoping for the few changes that will bring us back on par instead of just getting what we need to be brought back up on par such as a real source of AE auto attack and a class tree that isn't a waste of AA to do the same thing over and over again.
  7. ARCHIVED-Silzin Guest

    Ambrin i like your Suggestions, after all we are supposed to be more durable then bruisers, and from what i have seen we are not. I am not saying that bruisers are OP by any means, we both need to be brot up to a higher slandered.
  8. ARCHIVED-Harowen Guest

    Commenting from the bruiser side of things, one of the major points we're both missing is the lack of any worthwhile group benefits. Warriors and Crusaders, particularly Shadow Knights, bring so much more benefit to the group beyond just the fact that they're tanking. Monks have what, 1 group buff in addition to the raid wide? Bruisers have none. Meanwhile Sk's bring as much passive utility to their group as a bard or enchanter.
  9. ARCHIVED-BChizzle Guest

    Aule@Guk wrote:
    Monks only have their raidwide same as bruisers. If anything bruisers have more utility as they have the amped up avoidance check, monk has the absolute least utility out of all tanks.
  10. ARCHIVED-Rasttan Guest

    I'd say change the entire dehate line of AA to anything useful, change this line to have and endline that converts Inner Calm to the said buff below or what ever.
    Make Inner Calm a group buff add a tiny bit of CB and Potency to it maybe 2%-3%
    Make Lightning Fists a group or raid ability, raid would be better
    Make Everburning a group buff
    Change Med Mending to a 5% per rank heal since its uneffected by crit/abil mod/pot
    And make our Stances Just boost offensive skills or defensive skills remove the skill penalties from each if your in the opposing stance. I dont picture Monks recklessly throwing there bodies around to the detriment of themselves, why do our stances reflect that we do that.
  11. ARCHIVED-Brigh Guest

    I just don't understand combo. I asked in thread here and don't know why it talks about 3 triggers when it has a recast timer on it.
    I see it light up a split second sometimes and can't do a thing about it. I lined up 3 keys to make it go off, when they all hit, successfully, but I just don't have the room to line up all the necessary types in case one or more of those are down and combo is up.
  12. ARCHIVED-AustinB Guest

    When you land Combination it puts a debuff on the mob that last 2 seconds. While that debuff is on the mob, the effect of Combination will trigger when you hit the mob (I believe only off CA's). The effect is that Combination can trigger up to 3 times, but you would be very lucky if you got it to trigger more than once (occasionally you will trigger it twice). I suggested increasing the duration so that all 3 trigger can easily be used up.
  13. ARCHIVED-BChizzle Guest

    Ambrin@Nagafen wrote:
    It triggers off auto attacks as well
  14. ARCHIVED-Brigh Guest

    I have seen it trigger multiple times now, but I thought it was only triggering because you hit Combo, not because of something you did AFTER hitting Combo.

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