Recent Berserker Changes

Discussion in 'Berserker' started by ARCHIVED-Moorgard, Jan 10, 2005.

  1. ARCHIVED-Styker Guest

    First of all Oblix you need to learn our class a little more before making blanket statement of how " we should play a berserker"

    The State of Berserkers from 23-37 is pretty fubar atm and be realistic , its not going to get any better.... Weaponshield for one needs to be fixed.... How is it that it takes 3 concentration slots and last for 3min with such a minimal increase to parry? I dunno can anyone tell me that....

    What SoE needs to do is get EVER SINGLE CLASS SPELL AND ABILITY WORKING RIGHT BEFORE THEY BALANCE everything out.....

    Secondly since the consensus is now what ? we do 10% more dps then guardians but lose 30% mitiation to them? This needs to be corrected.... Either they do one of several things.... leave the mitigation as it is and boost our dps to match our loss ( which is prolly too much so bring down the mitigation gap to 20% and increase out dps 10% to 20 as well.... )

    Or cut the mitigation boost guardians have to 10% advantage over us so its "balanced" ...... Problem solved their.... Guard's will still take dmg better then us but not by such a huge margin that we are not viable as a tank in groups or raids....

    The later won't happen because it will be a huge hit to Guardians as a class ..... Which i think isnt balanced as well...

    Now for berserkers who are 40 and up .... most of you say this doesnt affect you and that is true... Why dont you reroll now and try being a Berserker from 23-37 and see how much "easier" it is?....... I for one have very minimal agro gaining or maintaining issues ( up to this day no other plate tank within a 3 lvl gap [ up or down ] has stripped agro from me ) the issue is we deal out garbage for dmg...

    Since Moorgard has stated that we were wrong to assume by class description what were suppose to be then MOORGARD PLS I ASK YOU TO CLARIFY IT NOW......

    Not with underlying statements pls but with a simple answer to a simple question....

    WHAT IN SoE'S VISION ARE BERSERKERS SUPPOSE TO BE?

    At least answer that so we know what to expect of a class that so many of us enjoy and put time and effort into....

    Strykr Destructicus
    30 Berserker
    AB Server
  2. ARCHIVED-Thooor Guest


    Imagine i'm red

    We at SOE think that things are balanced now. We dont care about you all complaining, we know that not many are going to quit paying us anyways, and this way we dont have to get off our "not-so-thin" behinds to do some work.

    Incase you wanted to see our source, here is a little snapshot for you zerks out there.


    Zerk.h
    ------
    #define ZerkNerf1 TRUE //set to true if guardians complain
    #define ZerkNerf2 FALSE //set to true if guardians still complain
    #define ZerkNerf3 FALSE //set to true if guardians just wont give up complaining

    Zerk.cpp
    --------
    .
    .
    if(ZerkDPS > MageDPS)
    ZerkDPS = ZerkDPS / 2;

    if(ZerkDPS > BrawlerDPS)
    ZerkDPS = ZerkDPS / 2;

    if(ZerkDPS > MonkDPS)
    ZerkDPS = ZerkDPS / 2;

    ZerkDPS = ZerkDPS / 2; //lets screw them anyways

    Return (ZerkDPS / 2); //I'm sure they weren't expecting this one :)
    Message Edited by Thooor on 01-13-2005 01:23 AM
  3. ARCHIVED-Lutok Guest

    We are not the evil counter part to Guardians, if we we're I could buy this "Youre just a little bit different to them"

    Theres way too many people who want us to be what we arnt, there was a more constructive post about Damage In vs Damage out, that was drowned out by a misconception that to do the job, being a little different would work.

    There doesn't seem to be many people who expect Berzerkers to be high Damage, when all is said and done a rat with a pokey stick is supposed to outdamage a very angry troll. Its not like the DPS classes have anything else to do now is it? Must be a pain being able to do lots of damage, track, sneak, use poisons, run buff...blah blah blah....but apparently its what they do, hurt mobs.

    Call us something else and make us an evil only choice, being a little different will work then, our defense will need looking at though.

    I quit EQ1 long before Berzerkers we're added, I guess if i hadnt, I would have all these pre-conceptions about what they are in the EQ world. Its only in this world that they are this half-baked meleer who's life is to be offensive, but heaven forbid if they can actually do damage.

    Its very odd, EQ2 has alot going for it, theres no huge downtime, encounters are different, no complete heal, the entire environment has had a re-design to correct mistakes that gave players issues.

    But EQ2 classes? really? Berzerkers in other games arnt like this, they are close to the description in the manual, and in the game.
  4. ARCHIVED-Belethron Guest

    Styker and Lutok have hit the nail on the head. Its not about weather we can all learn to be perfectly good second tanks. Its about if thats what we wanted to be when we picked Berserker in the first place.

    Based on the character descriptions in the book, in the game, and on SOE's everquest 2 website, Berserkers are damage dealers. That some people knew and expected them to be some kind of tank/sorta DPS class only shows that they had more information from reading these forums ahead of time or playing Beta than others.

    What really is needed is a definative statement about what exactly a Berserker is, and then a rewrite of the website and in game descriptions to match. This will alleviate future problems, and should take maybe a couple hours to do with a standard text editior. I believe on top of that Sony needs to do something for their player base who picked Berserker out of the desire to have a two handed axe or sword wielding DPS machine that cared little for his own saftey. But this is their game and I doubt they care enough (based on previous experiences with SOE) about any few hundred (or whatever it is) players enough to try and make them happy with some behind the scenes shuffling.

    Hell even those with EQ1 experience thought of Berserkers as some form of DPS, as thats what they were there. The very connotations of the name have nothing to do with Plate Tank.

    Personally at this point I could care less what happens to the class. I didn't sign on to be a tank. I played a tank class in EQ1 with all mess that that entailed. I don't understand how after 5 years of not being able to make 3 tank classes happy in EQ1 they thought they could make 4 (6 if monk and bruiser are designed to tank) classes happy in the same role in EQ2. But there needs to be some action on defining the role and then making that information available to all the players, not just the disgruntled ones on the forums. Its a few blocks of text, get a clue and edit it.
  5. ARCHIVED-Stromulis Guest

    Okay I wanted to give these changes a fair shake since all I've been doing is bashing them. I was in a group hunting and I wasn't the main tank so I was going out all DPS dual-weilding. What I must say now is that these changes suck. It wasn't as bad as I experienced earlier but they still suck. I was beserking ONCE a fight if I was lucky.

    That just plain is wrong. I went from being constanly red and beserker to not even beserking once a fight, relegated to every other fight. I am so dishearten with the change. I barely do what my class name is. I feel so powerless against SOE. I feel my voice doesn't count and they don't care. I understand they were overpowered but going from one extreme to the other is just plain WRONG!
  6. ARCHIVED-sceptre155 Guest

    They need to increase the proc rate %
  7. ARCHIVED-Odissius Guest

    And our damage......by 30%
  8. ARCHIVED-taraslar Guest

    Fat chance Odissus of that happening, since apparently the MIC of zerkers is Moorgard, and says we are just fine and dandy!
    We are working "correctly" now.
  9. ARCHIVED-sceptre155 Guest

    Our DPS is a direct reflection of us not being in berserker mode.
    Not having haste or the damage modifier.

    Raise bloodlust proc rate alittle, or fix the other skills that proc berserk mode.

    Raging strike for instance has never triggered berserk mode for myself. I'm assuming its broken.

    On a side note, I did try a experiment.
    I stuck intervene on the MA to see if the damage we absorb would trigger Focused rage. And no, it did not count as taking damage directly :( and didnt proc berserk at all. Oh well it was worth a shot.
  10. ARCHIVED-GangsterFist Guest


    That is what I was hinting at. They should have a slight increase of offense over a guardian. It should be marginal where it would not matter if the guardian or the zerk was MT in an xp grind group. It sucks you guys got nerfed because most of you probably got used to being very strong.

    IMO, it should be like zerks have 15% more offense and guardians have 15% more defense, or something along those lines.

    The zerk class was by far one of the worst in beta. It seems SOE tried to fix them but in the end made them too powerful for what was the original intention. I also think it sucks you guys got no warning about this.
  11. ARCHIVED-Reolas Guest

    For all you smart [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] Guardians telling us that complaining about not being able to Zerker, Why not have your defensive buffs you use go wonky, so that they only work 5% of the time when you use them, or your deflection rate with your shield be reduced down so that it only blocks 3 hits per fight. When that happens you all can sit and preach about how we should adapt to the game..and not worry about it.
    To me its like this....Guardians [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ed and whined...because the Berserker is a main tank...(woe is you.) . Everyone got there wish they fixed the BL to the point of uselessness, now that we are mad as hell and want it fixed not later but NOW. You guys are coming around saying oh its ok......theres no need for change....the game works the way its suppose to.....learn to adapt.......its up to you to make the game fun...etc.
    I say to you go jump off a cliff...or take your hammer/sword/spear and stick it up your butt. The game ISN'T fine, i DON't need to adapt, and the game is NOT working the way it was meant to, if this is how SOE wishes to "fix" things....then players will do what is in there best interest....hey SOE your still very consistent....planetside......SWG.......EQ2... Nice little nerf trend.
  12. ARCHIVED-Reolas Guest

    /agreement on
  13. ARCHIVED-JDDbull Guest

    I've been trying to roll with this and adjust as nessecary, but after giving it a week, all I can say is THIS SUX DONKEY [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]!!!!! I am really dissapointed in the direction this game has gone for me. I mean, did they not parse all the classes in beta? I find it hard to beleive they didnt know what classes were doin what DPS. If I had joined the game on monday and played the nerfed berseker from the get-go Im sure I wouldnt be so upset, but after putting alot of time into my zerker I honestly feel justified to feel like SOE gave me the shaft, and that I should be [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]in about it. Oh well, nothin to do about it now except wait for the next nerf. What will it be? Green solo mobs have a 50-50 shot at killing me?
  14. ARCHIVED-CamdenSteel Guest

    Tanta, you have a good many people fooled. Good job. However, you are wrong. Zerkers were not meant to mitigate damage through offense, or they wouldn't be able to wear plate and use tower shields. And if Guards are so powerful with their superior defense buffs, why don't I use them when I solo? I don't even bother. In fact, the only difference between me at 36 and what you would be at 36 is that I use a shield. Oh, forgot about having less damaging skills on my part.
    Just uninstall the game, Tanta.
  15. ARCHIVED-sheacms Guest

    Alright, there seems to be some issues with people trying to compare classes. First off, compare guardian and berserker at the warrior level, after all, that is how we all started, right? I don't believe anyone chose berserker off of guardian, did they? So if guardians got 10% more defense and 10% less offense from warrior (which i think is wrong, since it's stated we don't LOSE anything from previous classes) would mean berserkers got 10% more offense and 10% less defense from warrior, again, it having been stated we don't lose anything from previous classes.

    So with that in mind, warriors had pretty good offense and defense, and no one can argue that the guardian didn't improve greatly upon that defense, so to make up for it, berserkers should improve greatly on offense, yes? Which is how it had worked, say 40% increase just to put a number on both. Which was further changed by the skill sets, berserkers gave up defense for more offense with skills, so now they were doing say 60% more damage than a WARRIOR, their defense is 20% worse. So now berserkers only have a 20% increase on offense, that's just not fair.

    I see people trying to say guardians and berserkers should be the same class, this notion is ridiculous to me. Monks and bruisers are basically the same, pallies and SK's are basically the same, you don't really get a choice on those, so each city should have a near identical counterpart, but no matter where you are you get a CHOICE between guardian and berserker. Choice implies difference.

    I see people saying scouts are the main DPS, as I recall from prerelease statements fighters were to be the highest DPS and scouts were group utility, now the scouts are getting the DPS as well, where fighters, warrior branch specifically, bring one thing to the group, tanking, that seems about as unbalanced as anything.

    I chose the berserker prereleased based on the skill set, I had assumed guardian and berserker got approximately the same HP, and the base AC had to be fairly close since they could use the same armor. The difference to me came down to aggro, lets face it, hitting things hard tends to piss them off more than them not hitting you hard.

    As far as the bruisers complaining bout the mitigation, you guys may get hit twice as hard, but you get hit half as much, evens out, no?



    Message Edited by sheacms on 01-13-2005 09:38 AM
  16. ARCHIVED-taraslar Guest

    Well I think the players of the zerk class should dump thier accounts for some action, money talks louder than a guardians whine. But you guys will suck it up and "deal with it" in the end. And you will be stuck with playing some half-***** wanna be guardian type of character instead of what you thought the zerker would be based on it's class DESCRIPTION. Kinda like what happened in eq1 and swg or so i've read. Never played swg cause of the bad reviews and eq1, well can't say enough good things about it so I won't say anything at all.


    Well my pre-concieved notion of a beserker wasn't to be a second rate guardian, and I for one am not interested in paying for that.
  17. ARCHIVED-Theyne Guest

    Hate to disagree on one point GangsterFist. Berserkers were definately not one of the worst ones in beta. There just weren't that many being played in Beta. I was the highest level Berserker in Beta and really I had a great time playing the class back then. But now? The games just not fun. Yeah I'm Level 45, but there are still things that are making this game unfun since release. And with the 2 nerfs to this class since release and still not fixing many broken skills for all the classes I'm pretty much pissed off at how they are handling the game.

    So until I read up on changes that are for the better I think I'm going to be taking a long break.
  18. ARCHIVED-sceptre155 Guest

    Has the patch from 01/06 gone live on the european servers?
    If not
    Please Please Please get us some parser info before it does so we can compare. please include lvl , and average lvl of equipment etc...
  19. ARCHIVED-Reolas Guest

    Hmm don't have to bother.....I think you asked and answered your own [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] question Camdensteel.
    "In fact, the only difference between me at 36 and what you would be at 36 is that I use a shield" wow you must be in delusional land...another guardian that is happy the zerker got nerfed and is now trying like mad to say the game is all rosy..nothing is wrong......i would LOVE to see if they nerfed your precious damage mitigation what you guys would do.....there isn't a plane of knowledge where you can hold a sit down rally at...maybe everyone can meet at Nek docks =P
    Message Edited by Reolas on 01-13-2005 09:49 AM
  20. ARCHIVED-Grimgore Guest

    Shea...

    I don't think Guards lose DPS when they switch from warrior to Guard. Actually, I think Guards are the Median by which all Damage is calculated. Like the Warriors of EQ, all damage is based off of them. I could be worng though but SOE has a track record for doing that in the name of class balance.