Rangers PvP DPS + Thorny Trap

Discussion in 'Test Server Forum' started by acoloss, Feb 5, 2013.

  1. acoloss Active Member

    I was going to wait on this.. but it seems that ecnomorc had already posted it (for some strange reason)... although now it has been removed..
    this was a draft, i have edited it slightly (added more)

    Originally I thought rangers may need thorny trap.. but after seeing multiple one v ones on "Live" and in openworld PvP.. I really don't think rangers need something extra..
    I've seen very new/amateur rangers kill well geared experienced scouts/brigands with ease as it is.
    Their DPS is as much as when a brig/swashy is on you, except rangers can do it from range???

    Everyone is talking about Brig/Swashy dps, but neglecting the fact that a ranger can do all this at range and you cannot touch them... i understand they are T1 DPS, but in PvP, T1 + Range is not a good combination for the balancing of PvP.

    IMO Swashys and Brigands should be left how they are currently in the game, and Rangers are the ones that need fixing.

    The problem with rangers and why not many are complaining, is because there isn't many about.

    I don't know how much the patch on test has reduced Rangers DPS in PvP (yet).. but i really believe that in PvP they need to do less dmg than they are doing now, or maybe use their bow from 10m minimum ... as, as it stands a good ranger should never lose in PvP... Vs any healer type they can use mental breach and be out of range of melee attacks, any tank can be kited, and any scout can be dead before they get to the ranger (assuming they make it), mages are squishy to melee also..
    AND one of the worst parts is that rune of mendings seem to proc much more from ranged attacks?


    With Thorny Trap it could make rangers the most OP class in the game in PvP (in a 1 v 1, they probably already are.. not in group PvP though).

    Unfortunately from examining the spell on test, it does not tell you the duration of the actual trap, nor the snare amount when it breaks... not that it should matter.. as even 1 second will be OP.

    I will be testing this out tomorrow on test with a ranger... but still. even without Thorny Trap, ranger DPS should not be the same as a Swashy/Brig in PvP.. a kiting class should have less DPS than toe to toe classes.

    i've asked a couple of rangers about Thorny Trap, but they think it is useless anyway... (unless they are lying ) :D


    To DEVS, Thanks for the great work you have done so far.
  2. acoloss Active Member

    as an example:

    i hope this isn't offensive..
    i was not evaded once, stunned or anything.. and he ran into a post... I've seen him take down Brigs/Swashys in seconds by just standing still and spamming CAs:

    It takes me 30 seconds to kill him from when i engage... 25seconds from when i start DPS.. with ALL my Temps



    but if you look here.. the same player can take me to 50% HP in less than 1 second?? i'm wearing full PvP armour.. then you can see my 2 biggest nukes landing with all my temps on.


    you can say it's swings and roundabouts (is that a saying in the USA?).. but what happens when you go up against an elite ranger?.. there is no chance of winning... no matter what the class.

    I mean TBH.. i don't want any more nerfs, not even rangers... but RANGERS should really not be asking to nerf other classes when they play a class which is already one of the most powerful, if not THE most powerful class in the game.

    really.. we should just keep it as it is..
    the changes that are on test now are ENOUGH.

    Albiet.. Dirge Love... and possibly assassins might have been too nerfed.. we'll see
  3. Snapshot Active Member

    im not sure if you noticed trap has a 2.5 second casting time or not but....its useless (considering you can see a nest on the ground roughly the size of your toons body and is ridiculously easy to dodge)

    also after looking at your first video it appears that you have casting bars on and during the second he never cast anything so it had to be an auto attack which is an abnormally high auto attack even for a crit (i noticed 12k/7k/1500/500 hit splats) thats around 20k damage....how do you only have 40k health?

    i could be missing something combat log wouldve been nice
  4. Ecno Well-Known Member

    Oh its ok Snapshot... I got this covered AGAIN! It took me a while to find the caches ifle and edit the coding out. I have succeeded though and will again, post the same thing I posted last time... minus what SoE removed the thread for... which was actually later on in the thread when the bickering started. Nice try Acolos... here we go again!



    So here are my reasons why the new changes to Thorny Trap should be left as they are and why its not a game breaking change of OPness for Rangers. Trust me ile be using my regular Lunging Thrust root FAR more than this spell... but at least I do have my little trap back to play with here and there when I get bored.

    #1) Its been completely broken for several years in PVP and to the best of my memory hasnt worked since the end of RoK. Right now on live if I take the time to put it down AND someone happens to run over it... or I hook them into it, it just totally disappears, does not dmg, on root, no snare. Doesnt even engage me in PVP combat lol.

    #2) Its a 2.5 second cast, that doesnt even guarantee you will be rooted after the casting is complete. The enemy player has to run over it or be hooked into it AFTER its placed on the ground (2.5 sec is a loooong time to be standing around twiddling
    your thumbs dropping this trap). While you can cast it ahead of time, its very easy to see it on the ground and side step it all of 2m so you avoid it. Its also extremely easy to see the green symbol on my buffs so you will know when its down on the ground and to be careful.

    #3) The root itself is 4 sec long, with a 4 sec immunity with a 20% chance to break the root effect every time the player takes dmg. So you cannot just sit and wail on them endlessly while they are in the trap and you never could even back in RoK days when the duration was full PVE time of 30 seconds or so (yeah it used to be an awesome spell... really awesome and highly underestimated by most Rangers and other players in general... even though it was easily cured with 1 remedy). After the root has broken it has a snare for 86% that lasts for a very short duration (one that I cant remember off the top of my head... but its roughly the same as my basic Ensnare/Melee range snare.... so about 5-10 sec. You can cure the root while you are in it with a regular remedy potion... and you can also cure the snared portion with a regular potion. Alternatively you can pop a freedom of action which will get you out of the root AND reduce the snare effect by 40-50% depending on what tier of potion youre using.

    #5) It does next to no damage at all... so that isnt even a factor or something that should be worried about. Its avg hit for 3k-4k in PVP is a love tap now days and not to be worried about.
    Long recast... very long, 2 minute base recast... so you wont be getting spammed into this trap 6 times within 2 minutes. Therefore its really of little use and wont be a game breaking second root that you can rotate with my fast recast Lunging Thrust root.


    Thanks for your time...
  5. acoloss Active Member

    approx 62k HP in this video

    lol at talking about using pots, yet in the troubadour thread no mentions of it.

    4 SECOND LONG????????? with 20% chance to break + SNARE.. this is completely OP tbh... as well as the class already been the prime no1 class in the game.

    There is no need for these really long wall of texts posts, because they are unreadable.. try to just say the points, and spread out the text. I know i do long posts.. but i try to just stick with the important information
  6. Ecno Well-Known Member

    I am sorry that you do not like reading long posts with detailed constructive information concerning the subject of this thread. I like to cover all the points and cover all the information prudent to the subjects that we are discussing. I believe Devs and other players will greatly appreciate well outlined details concerning this newly fixed combat art/spell.

    You probably arent aware since you dont play a class without Mez, but there are no potions that cure mez... just thought you should know that. If there were potions to cure Mez then they would be mentioned in the Troubadour thread as it would be prudent to that subject. Maybe sony will consider adding a Mez cure potion, although the proper fix is to increase the immunity time to around 30 sec for Mez. Maybe you should post that in the Troubadour thread so they can look into it to fix those issues.

    I want to stay on subject though since this is the Test forum...

    Did you have anything to add or discuss concerning my reasons for why Thorny Trap in its current form on Test are a perfect as is? If so please do take the time to make a well constructed post (long if need be) to help us all understand exactly why you believe it is quote "OP TBH".

    Thank you...
  7. Ecno Well-Known Member

    Excuse me sir, please stay on topic we are in the Test Section... and this is a place for constructive forum posts that directly concern the subject at hand.

    Is there a reason you feel the need to degrade and make fun of other players that happen to have a different view than you on what would help balance PVP when it concerns you class directly? Please just stay on subject and lets discuss this like civil people so that we may come together for the betterment of PVP balance.

    Thank you...
  8. Delethen Active Member

    There is always the runed victims skull.
  9. Delethen Active Member

    To be honest, to be rooted for 4 seconds against a ranger is kind of an eternity. Sure it can be cured, but then there are other things that could do with being cured too (that arrow barrage thing springs to mind) and you can only use a pot once every 10 seconds or so, not to mention you can't use them on the run.

    Anyway, 4 second immunity isn't enough if you are going to have two roots again. Hook arrow into thorny trap = use one cure potion, then you can get rooted again before the cooldown is done on the cure pot.
  10. acoloss Active Member

    Thank you Delethen.
  11. Ecno Well-Known Member

    Yes but as I stated in the main thread concerning Mez... it only prevent 1 mez... since its on a 6 min recast.


    Here is a quote from the other thread...

    For more... please read this thread linked below with many detailed posts on the current issues with Mez. I would like to stay on subject in this thread.

    http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...tion-recast-changes-needed-in-pvp.3848/page-5
  12. acoloss Active Member

    yes read that... and watch the video
  13. Xeos Well-Known Member

    Thorny trap is on a long recast and has a long cast time. It used to work and stopped for no apparent reason, now it will work again as it should.
  14. Ecno Well-Known Member

    Well I would agree that if I could hit you the entire time you are rooted without the root breaking it would possibly be over powered. Unfortunately for me and other rangers that is not the case with this root... because it always breaks upon players hitting them. Also there are multiple other reasons its not over powered as I already stated. The main one, is that its on a very long recast of 2 mins and in a normal fight that is an eternity that would not allow me to spam back to back with my other root.

    Precisely... long recast, and it something that was in the game for a very very long time that was never intended to be removed from PVP it was just broken on accident due to patches/expansions. Honestly everyone should feel very fortunate that it did not come back at full strength that it was in RoK... which was roughly 30-45 second Root, with the same 20% chance to be removed when damage was dealt to the player and also with the snare afterwards.

    If it came back like I described it was in RoK I would completely understand why it would need a balance/nerf. Currently though the way it has been fixed is perfect... thank you SoE.
  15. acoloss Active Member

    yep.. in fact i think it should.. but, not if a ranger can kill you in 4 seconds :)
    The DPS for a kiting class is TOO high for a start
  16. Ecno Well-Known Member

    Well sir maybe you should consider curing that root if its such a critical situation, or popping Veil of Notes or using your Bagpipe Solo Heal. Then you wouldnt die in 4 seconds, multiple classes kill in less than 4 seconds... assassins, swashies, necros, warlocks, wizards. Generally speaking though it is VS an inferior player that is not on the same level as the person they are fighting. Maybe you need to improve so you arent being killed in 4 seconds, the first thing I would do is probably learn to use your evade and other CC elements of your class.
  17. Snapshot Active Member

    in all honesty i do think the trap could be useful in a set up 1v1 where you could have it precast in which case you (being the opposite player) would know ahead of time you have to prevent being caught in this trap

    in the wild however to get a trap off there is no arguing it would have to be done before the engagement started which again can be done against classes without track but trap wont or shoulder effect healers so were down to mages and fighters

    crusaders and i believe both brawlers can cure this trap so now were down to mages and 2 tank classes

    please point out any incorrect data i may provide because i am truly talking out of my element and merely trying to contribute to class balancing
  18. acoloss Active Member

    Thanks for not being negative...
  19. Ecno Well-Known Member

    You could learn a few things about not being negative from Snapshot... and I am not mistaken you seem to now agree that thorny trap isnt as big of a game breaker as you originally believed or thought.

    Glad you could finally realize that and I am glad I could help you do so.
  20. Cynicisim Active Member

    Econo, You are also negative also and seem to have a problem with Vaco which, I believe, makes you go overboard with the request to nerf a class based on your experiences with one person. You both are like two rabbits in a cage (not sure that translated like I had hoped but is very funny to me- still laughing).

    As far as trap goes. it really is not a game changer. Alhtough I have not had any experience with it for some time as it was broken or just never used.. but easy to avoid, long cast and really just step around it. And it is not very useful save duels and perhaps a few other melee classes if they run directly at the ranger. Cannot even see it being useful against caster classes unless they have very short range or the ranger is trying to get away and even if he is trying to get away.. with the cast time he has other better things to get away.