Well I'm a level 75 Ranger on Nagafen. I love playing a Ranger. I've speced my aa for a sick snare, crits, and really nasty snipe shot. I have a nice PvP record also. From the complaints, I gather that the gripe is mainly Ranger's alleged lack of damage compared to other classes. My problem is that some classes are extremely OP (Shadow Knight and some healing classes). What I'm saying is that perhaps a Ranger is where it should be while other classes are too OP and therefore taking the raid/ group slots. Good thing I don't mind soloing.
No offense, but really - until you're 90 and in a raid situation, you're absolutely correct. Rangers are fine. But that's where things fall apart. We're not competitive enough with similarly geared players and offer zero utility to offset that fact. Basically, see how you feel about it at 90 and come back.
Well he is kind of right rangers usually do very well in PvP. I've been doing A LOT of BG's lately and I've yet to do poorly and I have zero toughness gear. I got about 4 guildees who made ranger alts just to play BG's. Its just in raiding we are severely lacking, otherwise I would say we are fine. I think this is one of the bigger reasons we aren't getting immediate attention, we are at least on par when it comes to 'casual' facets of gameplay and there focus on that has shifted that way a lot lately. They aren't terribly concerned with PvE raiding problems imo, evident by having BG's added and only about 2 days/6 hours worth of raiding content this xpac.
Honestly all they would really need to do is lower our cast/recast timers to fix us having to stand at melee range and up the damage of our CA's by 30% and we would probably be ok. It isn't a hard fix, so I don't know what the hold up is. At the start of fights I'm normally doing ok on dps, it's when I run out of ranged CA's and have to start using melee that my dps drops. We have to many AA that boost melee CA's instead of ranged as well. If they want us to be more ranged they will need to look into that. Most devs don't raid at all, so they're looking at things from the casual side, but even there, when I group with an SK and see them parsing 45-50k on multi mob encounters while I'm doing 20-25k there is something wrong.
Still would like to see ranged variations of our most powerful melee CA's given. Not through AA's or anything, just added. This if not just converting them to ranged completely. Then the AA's we do have that improved the melee versions also improve the ranged variation. In addition to a damage increase. I don't think utility is nearly as bad off. The Assassin hate transfer is nice but that's most definitely NOT why people bring assassins along. With all these 'brawler' mobs I have found myself leaning on Focus Aim a lot harder just for the hit rate increase and weapon skill increase.
Hmm so your a monk with a alt ranger on a PVP server and not yet 90.......... Start a Ranger on a PVE server, level him up, TRY to find a top raid guild on ANY server, come back and put your 2cents in after you are blown off the parse by wizzys, swashys, assassins, warlocks, summoners and SKs in certain situations. Untill then please go back to your pvp alt.
Venez@Permafrost wrote: The Ranger is my main. I abandonned my old main and all my characters are now on PvP. I'll never play on PvE again because I'd be missing an entire aspect of the game. On Nagafen, your city allignment has real meaning. Whatever level I am, I have every right to post what I posted because every bit is true. No need for you to get sensitive about it. I'd rather see the Shadow Knight be leashed than get a damage increase honestly. It's more needed.
Yeah then we would only be getting ridiculously beat by about 6 classes instead of 7. SK's do have some OP issues but SK's beating us on some stuff is the least of our problems. Even with the addition to battlegrounds and the upcoming GU, EQ2 is still overwhelmingly PvE content, and any balance done should have that at the forefront. Soloing should simply be looked at as "Can this class solo? yes/no", and tweaking/balance should be done with grouping and raiding in mind. We've already been screwed by them balancing PvP on us and having it apply to PvE as well. Reason I Don't play on PvP is it makes me miss out on every other aspect except for PvP. When you have open PvP is makes everything else PvP. Quests, soloing, open zone groups or raids, all are quite suddenly PvP. I enjoy PvP and participate in BG's but the SECOND its forced upon me, its the worst thing I can possibly think of in a MMO. Like Venez said, get 90, and try to do some PvE raids. You will find yourself quite lacking unless everyone else has mostly worse equipment. Then again on a PvP server you can just PK for tokens and buy raid level loot from a vendor last I checked. I'm sure this is why the devs aren't rushing to fix our problems, especially with the new focus on PvP they seem to have. They see rangers doing fine in PvP, solo, and pick up groups. We know any raiding they do is minimal at best so why would they care about raiding performance. I'm on the verge of quitting this game for friggin Vanguard. At least what little content they do add is PvE raiding. EQ2 is WoW competition so they are going to do w/e ever they can to match or steal numbers from WoW.
That is why I hate BG. Call for nerfing another class you have no interest in rather than for getting your own fixed. Thats the predictable PvP mindset and juvenile I think. They way Rangers are treated you would think this entire game were based on PvP. The freakin PvP is what started the ranger nerfs IMO. They should have let WoW keep it.
Shade Slayer wrote: No. Hit 90, and explore other aspects of the game aside from PvP, as those are where our complaints lie. In PvP, we're a fairly balanced class - we have the potential to do a lot of damage from range and torment cloth-wearers, but the instant we're brought into melee range, we become pathetic. That's actually pretty balanced as far as I'm concerned. People aren't upset because we can't hold our own in PvP - we're upset about the lackluster DPS we can put out in PvE situations comparable to other classes that bring far more desirability to the table. For instance, if there's a great ranger and a great swashbuckler, why bring both? One of them brings debuffs, a hate transfer, and massive AoE DPS - the other brings pathfinding. Hit 90.
Shade Slayer wrote: This is where you are ....not correct. Every bit is NOT true, your a mid level Ranger, and I will GUESS that being a midlevel Ranger you have less than 8 months experiance on your Ranger, feel free to toss out his name and play time. It is also not true because you are on a PVP server in a PVE game - as in there is 1 PVP? server and 21 PVE servers (not including the Bazaar) You have differant rules, gear, factions, etc. This means your Ranger is NOT the same as Rangers on normal servers and as such you have NO RIGHT telling the real Rangers that we are fine. You being a PVP Ranger might be fine, on your PVP server which does not effect 95% of the rest of us. I have 100% ZERO desire to have SKs,Wizzys,Sins, nerfed, SoE has been buffing them for years - so be it. Now they need to BUFF PVE Rangers to where we are supposed to be, which has always been above ANY Tank class and comparable with Wizzys and Assassins as thats where we were always supposed to be since launch. Comeing here as a inexperanced PVP (any)class and trying to tell the Ranger community that we are fine will always bring a negative response from ........well every real Ranger.
Venez@Permafrost wrote: I agree with most of the posters here. We are great with a sudden burst of DPS, we just don't have the endurance, I also agree we have nothing to offer a group either. I find this and I am not RAIDing yet and I am not at end game but where this is a minor inconvenience for me now, I can see this magnified at end game. To this particular post, the difference between a X year pve RAID Ranger vs a X pvp/pve RAID Ranger, X being the same number, has the same valued opinion. Real Rangers on a real server, lol, I would suggest that a toon from a pvp server accomplishing the same stuff while adding pvp into the mixture actually makes a stronger player than those on a pve Server but that is just my opinion, not canon.
/shrug, I disagree. Differant rules, differant gear = not the same, and pvp is a minority compared to pve. That coupled with not even being 90 .....sorry just not 90 and not raiding and being on a pvp server, imo just does not equal anything to the pve raid ranger, which is what most of us are complaining about. If he wanted to say Rangers are not so bad pvp or bg, he is right, other than that, he is not. edit: and by real ranger I just used that wording as 21 servers of pve Rangers compard to 1 server of pvp with definate differances.
If they were balancing just on raid performance rangers would be high priority. When looking at all aspects and giving them equal weight, pvp, solo, group and raid, rangers aren't doing horribly. But they don't have equal weight. Soloing is just if you can or can't solo content meant for soloing. PvP is a severe minority. Raiding is probably lower percentage wise with the release of BG's, and may be able to argue raiding is 'hardcore' and not casual. But grouping we are still doing pretty bad and that is a strong cornerstone in EQ2 and any MMO in general, and making us better in grouping would have a huge impact on our raid performance. Personally I am of the 'trickle down' method of balance, you make a class good and in demand on raids they will do well in every other aspect automatically, at most would need a slight amount of tweaking. On the other hand making a class good at solo or PvP means almost NOTHING in groups or raids. Evident by rangers current state.
Shade Slayer wrote: Venez and I often disagree on methods but we almost always agree on the end result, and in the case that you are ignorant to the issues of PvE rangers. In fairness though not being a PVPer I couldn't tell you a damn thing about PvP, your concerns on that front could be completely valid. But you coming in and telling a bunch of raiders that it's possible that we're fine and then start calling for other class nerfs is comical at best. Until you've experianced the content we are concerned about (T9 raiding) best not to weigh in.
I made a 90 ranger on test. I have two words for you..... NEEDS NERF! The ranger is WAY overpowered with Sniper Shot and some od the other +10k attacks.
Then make sure you nerf Assassins too because their CAs hit harder, cast faster, and have shorter reuse timers.
The embaressment is my garbage bag wearing mages cant come close to that dps and have zero survivability like a chain wearing ranger with almost as much hitpoints as my zerker.
if you aren;t surviving as a mage in a raid, then either your healers don't know what they are doing, or you don't know what you are doing. The difference between chain and cloth mit makes almost no difference on most physical AEs I have seen this expansion. If you are standing too close to mobs that do a physical you will most likely get one shotted unless you are in plate. As far as DPS, unless you are a sorc you shouldn't be doing anything near what a ranger does in DPS. And if you are a sorc and not out DPSing the ranger then you are either way undergeared compared to them, not buffed, or not trying.
