Ranger Class Issues

Discussion in 'Ranger' started by ARCHIVED-speedycerv, Jul 2, 2008.

  1. ARCHIVED-speedycerv Guest

    Toball Tokor wrote:
    In regards to procs, ranged weapons's procs only proc on ranged attacks/ca, and spell attack for some items. Procs on melee weapons only proc on melee cas or melee auto attack, excluding Maestro's sword since that procs on ca cast.
  2. ARCHIVED-Lesca Guest

    Actually, it's a little erroneous to be comparing Execute with Sniper... Our counterpart is Storm of Arrows.
    Pre-LU13, Stream of Arrows was an incredibly powerful CA. As long as you started it while the mob was at the appropriate distance from you, it would keep going for the full 30 seconds, even when the enemy came into melee and point-blank range. It also benefitted from the original proc system, whereby every shot it made had a chance to proc all your available procs (which also had a chance to proc...). So back then, it was really rather good. Then LU13 hit, and suddenly it became a bit on the rubbish side. And once your auto attack damage outstripped the hits from each shot... Well, how many of us seriously use this CA now?
    I will admit though, I would love it if Coverage was tweaked. To give your mythical weapon a 5m range requirement to get max damage, then make your level 80 special require a 20m range seems a tad on the annoying side. At the moment, it feels like you have to wait for everything barring complete planetary alignment to occur before this will actually work. Tried using it on the Strange Stalker in YIS, but oh no, the add is being off-tanked about a mile away, so you can't do that. Sorry. Oh, and that AE has broken you out of stealth while you were sat on your backside casting Sniper, so that won't go off either now. Looks like you've wasted a whole lot of time there. And Focus as well. Oopsy. Oh well, there's always next time, eh?
    The Hawk gets flattened by the first AE that comes along, and I honestly can't remember the last time I used the Trap. T6, I think it was. One word: Meh.
  3. ARCHIVED-speedycerv Guest

    I'm slowly going through my OP and cleaning it up. I apologise for not updating it more often, but I'm going to do better starting now. May your arrow strike true.
  4. ARCHIVED-Neiloch Guest

    This is more of a high end ranger problem I am guessing, but I am finding it hard to have ways to improve my DPS in raids. I have 100 rda (or more) and something like 110-120 rcrit and this is with none of my proc buffs going off, then you have other temp buffs from the group. DPS mod hits 200 real fast after in combat buffs as well. This just leaves procs (which got nerfed two different ways for rangers, procs in general and our int line change), range crit bonus and CA base damage which doesn't help ranger DPS nearly as much as other classes. There's Melee crit and crit bonus if your really scraping the bottom of the barrel but I doubt many are doing that. It seems its being addressed in a small way with rcrit bonus, there are some items in MMB and more recently MPS. Unfortunately just upping range crit bonus doesn't seem like its enough to keep up with other DPS classes which can match ranger DPS and still have room to grow. Doesn't seem like something that can realistically be fixed now I just want to make sure the devs have this in mind for the next xpac.
  5. ARCHIVED-chogan Guest

    Items I feel are missing from rangers
    Anyone get the feeling they left out some aspects out of rangers that they gave assassins?
    Mainly I'm talking about bleeds. Rangers get deadly reminder which for me is my biggest damaging CA over the course of a battle. Assassins get several bleeds.
    When I imagine a ranger shooting an arrow into something I think of the arrow sticking into them for awhile and thus causing continuous damage. Yet we only have one DoT and its a melee one. As a ranger we should be giving things deadly reminders as arrows because frankly you can see it. WOW what a reminder... and arrow sticking out that keeps hurting! So please make deadly reminder ranged based and add some minor Bleeds to some other ranged CA's.
    Give rangers a lightning shot to compliment lightning strike have them share the same reuse timer. Rangers lack a quick refresh CA, shortest is 20 seconds most are over 30. A quick refresh ranged shot would be nice since rangers have moved to primarly ranged damage at end game.
    Change cheapshot to work on heroics and epics. If heroic or epic interrupt target that way it has some use while grouped.
    The devs could improve crafted arrows by actually make different arrow types do something. Since they removed NPC resistance to specific damage types, they only difference between types is sacrificing a very small amount of damage difference for increased accuracy and range. This damage increase doesn't seem scale with the bow either. (does it scale with dps? looks like adds flat damage onto ranged attack)
    Solution, change arrows to give a % increase to damage and additional effects because arrows should amplify the power of the bow not just add to it.
    Field points - currently very popular in game since longest range and add to hit %. Frankly field points are junk and are only used for practice for ease of removal from targets because there is nothing to get caught when pulling them out and do not penetrate very far. Since they are used for practice they have similar flight characteristics to real "useful arrows". Field point arrows should be incredibly quick cheap to produce in game and provide no bonus to damage, range, or hit %. They should be used by classes that just need cheap arrows for when they randomly decide to pull with an arrow.
    Bodkin arrows - designed for deep penetration (possibly even through plate armor) and to be relatively cheap compared to broadheads. Main in game benefit of bodkin arrows should be largest % damage increase to ranged damage.
    Broadhead arrows - designed to continously damage the target by causing constant cutting as the target moves. Also the most expensive/hardest arrows to make due to amount of metal used, and time/skill to construct the broadheads. Main game benefit of broadheads would be decent % increase to ranged damage and each hit would proc a DoT that stacked and did a % damage per tick of the bows power. This would give rangers a little extra constant damage between big auto attacks but lower autoattack damage slightly compared to bodkin arrows. (allows rangers to better judge damage and hate gain instead of spiking hate every auto attack and possibly kill severly weakened NPC between auto attacks, also does the most damage all together of all types).
    Introduce mastercraft ammunition. Alchemists have mastercraft potions/poisons. Mastercraft amunition could provide bonus to hit and higher bonus to damage. Could receive items to make mastercraft arrows as a side product of making mastercraft wooden items.
    Space out arrow crafting accross levels of the tier, field points, bodkin, broadhead since different arrows have more power than previous type.
    *Better arrows would benefit rangers the most!*

    Assassin vs ranger mythical damage number compare
    Eagle's Talon Mythical (151.1 damage rating) vs Fang of Ichor (120.9) + weapon with 105 damage rating
    Ability compare
    eagle strike and rage of ichor are about balanced.
    point blank shot and assassin's flurry damage bonuses are about damaged assuming ranger is about 5m away and switching between under 5 and over 5m. (do proc rate buffs affect assasins 15% attack chance?)
    talon strike and flurry of poison are about balanced.
    Stats compare
    fang of ichor has better sta, int, health, power and more piercing (compared to eagle's talon's ranged)
    balanced DA vs crit chance total bonuses
    damage rating
    calculate 33% increase to attack delay (note 33% increase in attack delay does not equal a 33% drop in dps instead calculate 4/3 = 1.33 delay so 3/4 the dps or .75)
    120.9 *.75 = 90.7, add of the 15% bonus from assassins flurry for 104.3
    offhand gives 78.8
    combined new damage rating of 183.1
    151.1 * 1.15 (assume 1/2 the time at under 5 meters, and half over 5 meters) for adjusted 173.8
    151.1 * 1.2 (assume always in the sweet spot) 181.3
    damage difference is not to far apart (addition of arrow damage should cause it to equal out at sweet spot)

    So the damage of the two weapon sets is about the same BUT continuation in ranged vs melee ca+da....
    Ranged CA and DA vs Melee CA and DA
    It is far easier to get items with melee crit and DA than ranged.
    Also spells tend to apply more melee DA than ranged as do t1-t3 shared armor between ranger and assassin. WoE lacks items with Ranged CA/DA or upgrades with Ranged CA/DA, There should be items that have a upgrade choice to work with revitalized set and trueshot sets (offensive influence and glyph of restoration sets)
    Some people claim its because offhand weapons cant double attack, but they can so i see no point on why to **** ranged DA compared to melee
  6. ARCHIVED-MaghodienStarunder Guest

    I just came back to EQ2 after like a 3yr hiatus, and am curious as to why they made AGI pretty much a pointless stat on rangers. I shouldnt be worrying more about my INT because i get higher poison procs of my AGI. Dunno, we need to go back to pre LU13 rainja's.
  7. ARCHIVED-Safana. Guest

    chogan wrote:
  8. ARCHIVED-Sydares Guest

    Rangers have absolutely no group utility. We have:
    1. No interrupts - Seriously, can't you at least just throw an interrupt onto cheap shot? If they're stunned, they're already interrupted - if they're not, hey! They're interrupted.
    2. No group buffs - (Nature's Focus is a total joke. Few care about 15 second temp buffs that hardly do a damn thing until you're raiding Munzok's - the only way this buff would ever be relevant is if it were raidwide and the duration were practically doubled, and even then it would be pretty weak - it's also rather appalling that we don't get several of the effects of our own frigging buff.)
    3. No persistent hate transfer - (Sorry, Trick Shot's 10 second duration (and therefore 33% uptime) still doesn't count. If a buff isn't persistent, it may as well not even be there as far as groups are concerned.)
    4. No persistent +hate% buff
    5. No significant AOE DPS - With an emphasis on AOE content of late, this has been a persistent source of agony. The 'waves of small mobs' that appear in Befallen, Guk 3, Ward of Elements, find us to be lacking.
    6. No significant 'visible' trash DPS due to long cooldowns and cast times. - No real explanation required, here. We have extremely limited 'burst' potential after our initial volley.
    7. Coverage - Has nothing to do with my topic, but is still horrible and warrant being mentioned during any ranger post.

    If a Ranger isn't doing far and away better DPS than any other class, there's currently ZERO reason to bring them on a group other than "We couldn't find anything else", and that's a depressing place to be in. I love my Ranger, but from a practical standpoint, I understand why we're one of the first classes to be benched when push comes to shove.

    Does the dev team even still read these threads, or are we still shouting into empty space?
  9. ARCHIVED-Ademelo Guest

    Unfortunately, I'd have to say empty space. The Ranger issue has been commented on for ages, yet they haven't really done anything to change it.
    And to add on to our buff being **** vs. the rest: I know of at least 5 buffs which do not affect the Ranger class (or offer limited buffs vs. the other melee classes), yet they are supposed to help "melee" classes. Are we not melee? It would seem not since we cannot cast our ca's on the move like all the other melee classes can.
    I also do not know of any other class that has as many "useless" ca's as the ranger class.
  10. ARCHIVED-MaghodienStarunder Guest

    for having pretty much 0 utility value, i dont see why they dont at leave give us the highest DPS. Its just wierd that someone with higher DPS also has higher Utility value.
  11. ARCHIVED-Neiloch Guest

    Well its not 'weird' but ranger's have outright avoided talking about it because it comes up so much and seen as 'beating a dead horse'. Basically it was well known Aeralik 'favored' assassins, our counterparts. Hopefully we will see some change now. We asked for more DPS or more utility a long time ago to balance things out and what we got was a group MELEE buff when rangers are usually in a caster group (from what I can tell) for IA. Awesome for the troubs i guess.... Rangers DON'T want more utility over more DPS, but if they outright to refuse to bring our DPS up to par to balance things, then we need more utility to balance. But to be clear, we want more DPS over more utility. Also being able to do sub par DPS out of melee range doesn't count as utility imo. unless they want to add a butt ton of fights where people MUST stay at range, like how they added more AE fights for AE oriented classes to shine. Know what the real pain of it is? We could put out the same numbers as an assassin, and STILL be behind them in terms of balance. Honestly I think looking at rangers on their own they are pretty well rounded, unfortunately when directly compared to other classes they come up short. Only time I put out numbers I think rangers should be at all times is in the off-tank group which usually includes a dirge, coercer, and a templar. Unfortunately a ranger brings nothing to the group as a OT group while assassin brings hate. Hopefully if buffs become more raid wide the problem will kind of fix itself.
  12. ARCHIVED-bryan4171 Guest

    Lol the last kick in the face I got was i offered to mentor to a lvl 60ish raid and they went with a Healer class in the high 50's cause they would help out more.

  13. ARCHIVED-Jamps Guest

    Thats the ***** we get
  14. ARCHIVED-Raahl Guest

    Not sure if this was brought up, but IMO rangers should have more ranged CA's than they currently do.
  15. ARCHIVED-Neiloch Guest

    Well if they lower reuse on our current ones we won't need more to do them non-stop. But hey if they want to turn some melee CA's in ranged ones or just give us new ones outright I won't turn it down heh.
  16. ARCHIVED-Raahl Guest

    Neiloch@Kithicor wrote:
    That would probably go a long way to helping any DPS issues too.
  17. ARCHIVED-Chorboy01 Guest

    delete this thread and quit crying about ranger having a issue... if your a good ranger you would have NO issues with ranger none the less our dps
  18. ARCHIVED-Neiloch Guest

    Hammieee@Everfrost wrote:
    Way to complain about a thread that is over a year old, even if it is stickied. I'm sure something will come up.
    I'll still stand by my grievance that rangers are too melee centric as an aesthetic or personal preference even with their actual perforamnce being good. If I wanted to melee I would have made one of the other 11 melee classes.
    Suppose my only hope is SoE gets with the time and makes rangers or some other class (archer maybe) a pure bow option in EQNext. One that doesn't have to deal with ammo or t least freely make their own unending supply of the best arrows available (Vanguard). Of course they could even screw that up by making them a pet class in the process.
  19. ARCHIVED-Chorboy01 Guest

    Neiloch@Kithicor wrote:
  20. ARCHIVED-Neiloch Guest

    Hammieee@Everfrost wrote:
    If its not an issue why not get rid of them? Oh because it IS an issue, its just not a significant problem.
    Way to over simplify on the melee point, so I'll elaborate.
    I hate how melee is needed to reach any significantly high DPS. I think a min/max ranger should be able to top the parse without using any melee skills. I'll even go beyond that and say using melee CA's instead of ranged CA's as a ranger should be a detriment to DPS, not a significant boost, and only useful for when an opponent closes the distance to the point you can't use ranged CA's. Again, if I wanted to use melee to do a huge part of my DPS, I would have made one of the other multiple melee based DPS classes. Ranger's needing melee to DPS well in a performance environment is redundant.
    But again I will point out this is my own personal aesthetic and even though rangers are 'fine' from a purely performance standpoint I still think there are some fun factor changes that could be made to increase enjoyment of the game. If you don't think that is at least as important as parses I'm forced to wonder why you even play video games.
    Just because we don't have a bunch of problems that are 8-10's on the screwed scale doesn't mean there isn't any issues at all.

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