^^ Pwned. Thanks, I fixed my quoting oversight. I knew who the quote was from, but neglected to fix it. Since I'm feeling helpful today, here's some percentage assistance from Dr. Math. najena.konk ^^ Rofl. nice. Anyways. Power is usually only a issue on really long fights for instance Moonchild thats a mob from... Well from your extensive raid knowledge you should know that, so why waste my time. But Manastone is free power, they are giving you power for just staying alive long enough to see the timer tick over. Why NOT use it? And the only real stats a tank needs now is Stam and Wisdom. STR is not that usefull on a raid serving as the MT, especially because hitting the soft cap is SOOOO easy its not even funny. But how about we pose the question like this, If SOE by some crazy whim decided to give us a choice on what buffs do you want to take. +100 Str? or... 100 Stam? From a raid perspective the choice is easy, Stam.
Splinterr Said: And the only real stats a tank needs now is Stam and Wisdom. STR is not that usefull on a raid serving as the MT, especially because hitting the soft cap is SOOOO easy its not even funny. But how about we pose the question like this, If SOE by some crazy whim decided to give us a choice on what buffs do you want to take. +100 Str? or... 100 Stam? From a raid perspective the choice is easy, Stam. End Quote This statement is so far from right. I GOOD tank now needs to try and keep almost ALL his stats to a similar lvl. Intellegence is now Very important to a tank, as is wisdom. Intellegence because if you tanking end game mobs with low intelegence your taunts aint gunna do nothing but waste power and you casters arent gunna like you much when they die alot. Wisdom because it increases you Spell Avoidance. STR lets face it is Easy for a zerker to get up in most MT setups, but its still important since the DPS the tank put out contributes alot to how well he will keep agro/how heavy the DPS classes can go without stealing agro. STA of course hit point so this is also important. AGI Avoidance (which i personally would rather have this higher than STA, cause i'd rather Avoid an attack completely than have high hit points and still take a hit, still both are important) So we need em all as an MT thats the bottom line. Cant be bothered to scroll through to see who keeps saying Guardians are far better tanks than Zerkers but its just not true at all. I saw someone quote what SOE said that Guardians should be better than zerkers, well i say to that person, since when has what SOE says in their Class Specifications bore a perfect reflection of the actual game play? In the right MT group I push a constant 4740 mitigation, and when i cast Wall of Rage and Choas i blow right past the cap for 30seconds every 30 seconds. I hit 64.5 Avoidance. the only area i lack a little is hit points which i only generally get to around 8800 in the MT group, but with that mitigation, and that avoidance the HP that i have is plenty. I also hold agro better than any guardian i have met to date. So theres a tanking Zerkers Stats. Lets see a Tanking Guardians Stats and see just how much better they really are?
"But Manastone is free power..." ok yeah and the zerker str buff is not? "Why NOT use it?" i already told you repeatedly that i DO still use it. i never said i didn't. i never said you shouldn't. but if i had to choose between my str buff and manastone...guess what. "And the only real stats a tank needs now is Stam and Wisdom." what about agi for more avoicance? you think that's not important either? rofl... "Intellegence is now Very important to a tank, as is wisdom. Intellegence because if you tanking end game mobs with low intelegence your taunts aint gunna do nothing but waste power and you casters arent gunna like you much when they die alot." i know wisdom is important to have more resists but i've never heard that int has anything to do with how good your taunts work. where did this come from? Message Edited by infernus006 on 12-07-2005 12:38 PM
Taunts are Spells, Spells work off your Intellegence. Higher your intellegence the more likely your Taunt/Spell will land on the mob and not be resisted. And when your fighting lvl 62-68 x4 mobs... this is umm kinda important.
I'm pretty sure the idea of your intellegence vs. the mob's was removed before the combat revamp went live. I know intellegence doesn't increase the amount of threat produced from taunts. AFAIK, there is no *visible* change to a zerker's taunts, resists, buffs, or combat arts.
"Taunts are Spells, Spells work off your Intellegence. Higher your intellegence the more likely your Taunt/Spell will land on the mob and not be resisted." um...i thought taunts were considered combat arts, not "spells". they are listed as combat arts. berserkers don't get any magic-based spells that i know of, we are a pure melee class. we don't even have a tab for spells in our knowledge book and we have no magical skills at all. so as far as i can tell int does nothing for us nor is it supposed to. we are not supposed to need it the same way mages don't need str for anything important they do. if any stat has any effect on how much our ca's will be resisted i expect it to be str since that is our primary stat. but i don't think it does actually, i think the only thing that really effects the frequency that your combat arts will be resisted is their level and quality. Message Edited by infernus006 on 12-07-2005 03:25 PM
imo agro is the key..........lost agro even for a secound can wipe a raid. is any plate class better at tanking then the other............YES....................but its situational. zerkers are the king at locking down multiple targets and holding its agro...................that is our specialty and it is where we shine.
Fearsome Shout, and Outrage are spells. I dont care where there listed. heres why: CA's never get resisted, they only miss are blocked or are parried. Outrage and Fearsome Shout get resisted ergo they are spells. Secondly, Outrage and Fearsome Shout work with Precision of the Maestro a troubador spell which procs damage when SPELLS are cast, not CA's. These two taunts are spells. Our int doesnt seem to increase they're threat ratio, but it does seem to increase my chance to land the spell and not have it resisted.
"CA's never get resisted, they only miss are blocked or are parried. Outrage and Fearsome Shout get resisted ergo they are spells. Secondly, Outrage and Fearsome Shout work with Precision of the Maestro a troubador spell which procs damage when SPELLS are cast, not CA's." Good point. If you can get some hard evidence on this that would rock. But the more i think about it, the more it makes sense.
I'd be interested to see if that's really the case. For mages at least, intelligence is not supposed to have any bearing on resist rate. According to developer statements, the only things that affect spell resists are: level (that is, your level vs opponent's level) resistances (and debuffs) skill buffs (like +disruption, for example) and for mezzes, stuns, roots, etc, the quality of the spell (apprentice 2/3/4, adept 1/3, master 1/2) - quality of the spell is not supposed to matter for something like ice comet Message Edited by Impetus on 12-08-2005 03:54 PM
Intelligence only raises the damage of spells. It doesn't effect the resist rate. So, it will make that troub buff proc for more damage, but that's the only extra hate you'll gain from it
So, if we sum it up, raising INT will only affect the damage from magic procs (buffs from group members and such) but it won't help with the resist rate on taunts. I read somewhere here that our taunts are resisted on mental, like all tanks except maybe SK's that get resisted on disease. Debuffing mob's mental resist should then help taunts to land correctly. And that leaves us with STR, STA and WIS to raise for raiding zerkers. STR beeing absurdly easy to max in any kind of MT group setup, and (correct me if I'm wrong) AGI won't help us much plate people in regards to getting any kind of significant avoidance boost. STR to max damages and the agro we get from it, STA obviously for the hit points, and WIS to raise magic mitigations, swapping gear to match a mob's prefered magic damage not beeing an option when you MT. Message Edited by Lechacal on 12-08-2005 02:01 AM
"These two taunts are spells. Our int doesnt seem to increase they're threat ratio, but it does seem to increase my chance to land the spell and not have it resisted." Even if they are "spells" like you say then what makes you so sure that having more INT decreases their chance to be resisted? By your theory having more STR should decrease the chance that all our other CA's have to miss or be blocked or parried then. But in reality I think it's only the level of the spell and it's quality that has anything to do with that. Skill points may be a factor as well. But from what I understand none of your stats have anything to do with the rate that your spells or CA's are resisted. "and (correct me if I'm wrong) AGI won't help us much plate people in regards to getting any kind of significant avoidance boost." It may not be that significant but every little bit helps. Message Edited by infernus006 on 12-08-2005 11:05 AM
Intelligence is useless on warriors, it certainly does not affect resist rates, and it also does not increase total threat.
There were threads started before the combat update where developers mentioned your stats would be compared to a mob's during a fight. Your agi versus the mob's agi would determine how often you would hit the mob, etc. I don't recall what stats were compared exactly (int vs int, or int vs wis?). I do know this was dropped before the update went live. I'm sure the mob's agi plays a part in avoidance still, but no penalty to you for having low agi while trying to land a hit. It's weighed against the mob's avoidance, not your agi. This could be where the idea of int having an effect on taunts is coming from. I have had my int buffed over 200 before (not bad since it's 48 normally). I can't say I have noticed any increase in effectiveness of taunts. Spell level concerns me a bit. If a weapon with a minimum skill of 15 levels below you (con's white still) has a hard time hitting mobs higher than you simply due to level, then how well does our level 50 encounter taunt fare against level 65+ mobs if the same system is applied to spells and combat arts?
"how well does our level 50 encounter taunt fare against level 65+ mobs if the same system is applied to spells and combat arts?" well thats why i got master2 on mine.
I also chose Fearsome Shout for the master 2 upgrade. Nonetheless, if spell level is significant, it's still a level 50 combat art. I couldn't even tell you if having a master 2 versus an adept 3 or apprentice 2 will cause it to be resisted less. It's definately more effective in that it has a larger threat increase associated with it.
"I couldn't even tell you if having a master 2 versus an adept 3 or apprentice 2 will cause it to be resisted less." well i'm not 100% sure that it does but somewhere someone said it does...and maybe it's just my imagination but ever since i got the master2 it does seem to be resisted less often than when i just had ad3 of it, especially on higher-level mobs. in fact i would even say that my master2 of fearsome shout gets resisted less often than my ad3 of outrage does.
Level of spell (level 50 or 59) has no bearing on resist rate. Quality of spell (app, adept, master) does.
I didnt read this whole post, but to respond to some of the stuff i head on the first page. First of all i do not have extensive raiding experience, but i hit 50 right as the expansion droped and have been raiding all the old world mobs on my way to 60. From that experience so far, I love having a zerker in my group. As a bruiser who is near the top of the dps list in most of my raids having a zerker in the melle dps group kicks [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. Without a zerker or bard my dps is around 300, depending alot on which raid and group setup. With a zerker and bard in group i have hit over 460
