Raiding Zerkers

Discussion in 'Berserker' started by ARCHIVED-Rashen, Dec 1, 2005.

  1. ARCHIVED-Rashen Guest

    So for all you other Berserkers out there that are lvl 60 and do nothing but raid, what is your experience with raiding? I mean as far as getting into the raid and how much we are actually needed. When the guild I'm in has more than 24 people for a raid they of course start to pick the best classes for the raid that are needed. My experience has been that this means that the berserker does not get added to the raid. Last night for example we had about 4 people extra above the 24. The ones left out were 2 zerkers, 1 guardian and 1 paladin. There were no zerkers in the raid at all. They had 2 guardians for MT and MA and 1 paladin as the rez *****.

    We really don't bring much to the raid. Our DPS is not that good when we are not the MT and I know for raids I will never be the MT. We have too many guardians that fill that roll and lets face it they are still the better MT for a raid for their aggro control and defensive buffs.

    So then what else do we bring? Our mitigation buff is useless since nobody in the group is tanking (we will not get added to the MT group as other classes have more and better buffs to add to the MT). Our hp regen isn't enough to make a difference in a raid. We add some DPS for making the group go zerk but that is pretty minor when looking at the big picture.

    I was trying to come up with something I can tell my guild why I am still needed when they already have enough tanks in the raid but really can't figure it out. What is everyone else's experience with this?
  2. ARCHIVED-Luca Blight Guest

    Well first I would like to say i'm sorry that you get kicked out of the Raids when 24+ people are online. I'm glad in my guild we mainly base it on who was on first.
    Far as the raid scene goes from my experience so far. I can agree with you on how Guardians can keep agro easier thant a Zerker, plus add in a Dirge and they are set. I wish we could have the good ole days of more taunts to steal agro when we liked withought using rescue.
    What I dont know would be a Utility i would want to bring to the raid. I would love to see us be able to tank as Dual wielders with a natural riposite. I think that alone would help keep a sure agro on a mob if you can Riposite often. But yes other than that we have no utility that makes us top priority when push comes to shove.
  3. ARCHIVED-Buggrit Guest

    doesn't sound like a very nice guild imho thats the problem though
    big raiding guilds only 24 people allowed people are going to get left out
    and aslong as everyone gets fabled loot there happy /shrug
    personally why i will never raid or try not to in Eq2

    seen enough of it in eq1

    but you have to look at this?
    was it your first raid you've been left out on have you gone on all the others?
    if so kinda of selfish of you to be expected to be invited

    or have you always been left out
    in which case its not the guild for you and you would be better off leaving


    personally i have no raiding experience as a Berserker well no proper raiding experience but thats my opinion
  4. ARCHIVED-infernus006 Guest

    "I know for raids I will never be the MT. We have too many guardians that fill that roll and lets face it they are still the better MT for a raid for their aggro control and defensive buffs."

    first of all i think your guild is silly for letting two gardians in the same group instead of putting a zerker in there instead. i don't believe their buffs stack with each other since i know that zerker buffs don't so they are actually getting less buffs that way. furthermore there is nothing wrong with a zerker being the MT for a raid, especially if you put a guard in the same group so the zerker gets all his group defense buffs on him. as far as holding aggro...who has insolent gibe? i'm not sure that guardians get a super pbaoe taunt proccing buff like that.
  5. ARCHIVED-Rashen Guest

    Its a top raiding guild on the server so we raid every single night. Anytime there is more than 24 (and not an excess of healers which is rare) then yes I'm left out. I'm not the only one though because the extra guardians have it just as bad once the 2 other slots are filled. I can't say its a bad guild because well they want to put the best raid force together that they have possible and besides there aren't any other guilds even close to being able to raid like we do.
    Pre LU13 this was of course never a problem. We added over 1k+ hp to the main tank and our dps was always on top. Since then though we can't bring either of them.
    If I were left just this one time heck I wouldn't have minded it because it gives me time to do other things but when your in a raiding guild and what you want to get out of the game is to raid...well consistently being removed from the raid just isn't much fun.
    The 2 guardians are not in the same group. In 2 different groups so thats not an issue.
    Message Edited by Rashen on 12-01-2005 11:12 AM
  6. ARCHIVED-dremtak Guest

    leaving a zerker out of a raid is just plain stupid................if we are not being use in the mt group then we difinately should be in the dps group of the raid. to have 2 guards and no zerker versus 1 guard and 1 zerker is simply "gumpish"

    in a dungeon crawl situation or an instance with more then one named encounter is "super gumpish"

    im not one to say people are playing favorites on who they bring to the raid ............but it does happen.......can this be the case?
  7. ARCHIVED-infernus006 Guest

    "Pre LU13 this was of course never a problem. We added over 1k+ hp to the main tank and our dps was always on top. Since then though we can't bring either of them."

    i think people underrate our in combat hp regen buffs a bit. they could probably be better but as it is now they are something and it might not do that much for the MT who is taking a lot of big hits but it does help the other people in your group recover from aoe damage faster and alleviate some of the pressure off the healers. furthermore we also get a group berserk buff that's actually really nice for all the melee classes in your group, especially your guardians who can really use all the extra dps they can get. and don't forget about our group STR buff either which was beefed up quite a bit after lu13. the t6 ad3 of that gives +83 STR and stacks with all other classes' STR buffs. that's nothing to scoff at.

    you may not want to admit this but it sounds to me like your guild is basically anti-zerker and i personally would not stay in a guild like that for one second. think about it, even if they don't ever want you to be the MT for anything there is still no excuse for letting two guardians be in the same group when they could have a zerker in place of one instead. seriously. it's like they are stuck on a false notion that not only are guardians the only choice for MT in a raid but also the only tanks in the game or the only ones that should be allowed on a raid, which i'm telling you is plain [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. zerkers are exactly the same as guardians except we get a different set of ca's and buffs, ones that are meant to be more offensive. and like i said, our group buffs do not stack with each other when there are two of us in the same group. so why the heck would you want to have less buffs in a raid than you could have by letting a zerker replace one of the two guardians you keep putting in your MT group? that really doesn't make any sense at all and whoever your leader is really should consider that they are making a big mistake by leaving you out.
    Message Edited by infernus006 on 12-01-2005 01:21 PM
  8. ARCHIVED-Corvax666 Guest

    I'm from one of the top raiding guilds on our server. We also Raid every night. If they think that we cannot MT...There really getting all wrong. Sure Guards hold aggro alot better on single target encounters, but when it comes to multiple mobs encounters, we Zerkers have the Edge...with the defensive stance/insolent Gibe and all are great AoE. Rampage and Open wounds...., we hold the aggro alot better IMO.
    When we raid we switch MT depending on the encounter...Since LU13, certain classes will Tank better certain mobs....So they really got to get out of the old philosophie that the MT must be a guard....not true anymore.
    And if we are not MT, we sure can DPS...again are speciality is multiple mobs encounter. On single mobs we are not that bad but add in a couple of mobs and you can be pretty close to the top of the list on the DPS parser...
  9. ARCHIVED-uux Guest

    I'm in a casual guild on the server I play on. We usually take people on a first come first serve basis. Some spots are held open because we lack something, like a healer (hey, it's a pick up raid, you never know what you're gonna get). I'm usually either the MA or the MT. If I'm not MT, it's usually another berserker. I think we do just fine, but I probably lack the experience to judge it as well as many of you. I'm sure other tank classes might be a better fit for some encounters, but we always seem to manage. As MT, we have good mitigation, a skill to prevent a one shot death, and a good combination of skills to hold and maintain aggro. As support in the MT group, we have our small mitigation buff, the intercept line, interrupts to stop casting, a snare, and guarded vehemence. If for some reason the MT falls, it's very easy to get aggro and step up into their place. As MA, I think we can grab adds and peel off mobs great. In the DPS group? Ask any melee class what they think of your group berserk proc. They might fail to notice the str increase, or the hp regen, but they sure notice the berserk proc.
  10. ARCHIVED-infernus006 Guest

    many of the other melee classes i group with on a regular basis, especially scouts, are very impressed by my str buff
  11. ARCHIVED-Rashen Guest

    I know we can MT in raids so that wasn't an issue they just always seem to stick to the standard or once they do something that works they never change it. Yes we are much better against group mobs especially with our ae taunt but majority of the raids thats not a factor. Thanks all for the input. I was more curious if this was common or unique to me (my guild). Unfortunately if I want to raid, like I said before, there are no other guilds that are even close to being able to raid what we raid.
  12. ARCHIVED-Gavpimmy Guest

    You should prolly find a new raid leader.....

    Why on earth would you have two Guardians together in the MT group when you have a Zerker to put in there. their buffs dont even stack? We add Health regen, Chaos and DPS by making the group go berserk (easy for tank to hold agro the more dps he can do).

    Also, Zerker make really good main tanks. im main tank for a raiding guild. We raid every night... I've tanks all the instances, the golden and silver dragon all that good stuff and we've done great.

    Your dps is uber. Tell your raid leader that. If your not doing sick DPS in the DPS group your doing something very very wrong. I can out DPS most classes in a raid.

    Just go ahead and tell your raid leader to get a clue ;p

    Hell even if they didnt want to use a Zerker with the guardian in the mt group they shoulda put a pally in there. Pallys give the MT like 350-400 mitigation, not to mention the extra wards and lay of hands (which can be cast out of group but w/e)

    Sounds to me like they just have favourates in your guild and they get to go to raids, cant have anything to do with tactics else one of the guardians would have been dropped.
  13. ARCHIVED-Renshie Guest

    I am a 60 Zerker on The_Bazaar. I am in a raiding guild that raids everynight as well. All i can say is anyone that thinks a guardian can hold agro better then a berserker on any encounter is crazy. Only thing a guardian is better at is taking hits and with me being almost fully t6 fabled i have no problem with damage as well. I can still out dps any class every 3 minutes.....including warlocks on large encounters, and how many fights last longer then 5 to 8 minutes. If your guild is leaving you out of raids for a guardian its only because they are either playing favorites, or they are silly and stuck on the old way of tanking raids.
  14. ARCHIVED-Splinterr Guest

    "The 2 guardians are not in the same group. In 2 different groups so thats not an issue."

    GUYS! He already said the gaurds arent in the same group already. So drop it.

    Lets face it, our group buffs add nothing to a MT group. Health regen, zerk proc, str buff. If your whole raid is relying on these weak buffs, you are in for a world of hurt. The health regen... not big enough to make a diff, and even if it does, your healers or group is taking more damage than neccessary and will die. The zerk proc, MT is usually healers with the exception of some classes so there isnt alot of melle action going on. And if you are MT'ing and Auto attacking... well the ripostes are just making everything harder. Str buff ... good for auto attacking, but nothing good for a MT group. And you shouldnt be using toooo many CA saving power for taunts and what not. *unless you have several power feeders*

    So. Our group utility is worthless, we make OK tanks on the basis that we wear plate armour and thats about it.
  15. ARCHIVED-Renshie Guest

    All i can say is go reroll a guardian, cuz if you think there better tanks you need an eye opener
  16. ARCHIVED-Splinterr Guest

    "All i can say is go reroll a guardian, cuz if you think there better tanks you need an eye opener"

    Ok. In what ways are we better than a gaurdian at tanking? Seriously. We hold aggro marginally better because we can out DPS them. But when is holding holding aggro a lil better than staying alive with ridiculous HP, mit?
  17. ARCHIVED-infernus006 Guest

    splint im getting really sick of seeing you come here and bash zerkers left and right. if you hate us so much you need to stop trying to play one and quit coming here. go play a guard then if you think they are so much better. you don't know what you are talking about anyway. being an MT is not just about standing there and taunting, not anymore. not even for guards. damage matters too. the more damage you do to a mob the more it's going to hate you. you think guardians who MT for raids have their auto attack disabled and don't use any damge ca's at all? i think not. you think they care about the damage rating on their 1h just as much as we do? you bet. more str means bigger power pool and more melee damage for all fighters. so don't say the str buff is meaningless because that's bullcrap. furthermore the berserk proc generated by our group berserk buff gives a considerable increase in offensive melee skills and auto attack rate. this is not meaningless either. it helps you keep aggro and beat the mob down faster. and like i said our hp regen thing could be better but it's not totally worthless either. serious dude, you're just another zerker hater so get lost. i love playing my zerker, i MT for groups and raids and guess what...im good at it. im sorry if you don't have the same success with yours but maybe there is something wrong with you, not us.

    or maybe you don't even really play a zerker, maybe you only play a guard and you only come here to try and downplay us because you are jealous that we are so good.
    Message Edited by infernus006 on 12-01-2005 06:20 PM
  18. ARCHIVED-Buggrit Guest

    we are not better and we are not worse were equal are mits pretty much equal guards may pull ahead a tiny bit in hp but we make up for that in out dpsing them /shrug
  19. ARCHIVED-Bantel Guest

    My personal raid preference is, when the zerk is not the mt, put him/her with the scouts, ups their damage output considerably.
  20. ARCHIVED-Khalad Guest

    I am second on the depth chart of main tanking in my guild, so most of the time, that is what I am doing. I have tanked anything our guardian has so far just as well. Many raids you need 2 tanks as well, am often in a second main tank group. Other than that, I am in the dps group for my buffs and often come in top 6 dps anyway.
    Message Edited by Khalad on 12-01-2005 05:40 PM