Raiding/Itemization.

Discussion in 'General TLE Discussion' started by Adoninilol, Dec 5, 2018.

  1. Sigrdrifa Well-Known Member

    Not so... there's also a Community Council. I am a Community Council member. As part of that role, I try to bring stuff to the attention of the devs, especially when things seem to have people really upset. I did post to the Community Council forum the various TLE itemization and raid threads, and suggested that they have the dev team address publicly what the plan is going forward.

    I can guess (well heck, I know) that the dev team put in long hours in the run-up to the expansion release, and now we're into the holidays. Comp time, vacation time, and holiday schedules can reasonably be expected to affect how many dev man-hours they have available for this stuff.

    I personally would have not released a drop date for the TLE move to the next expansion until it really was ready, but once they did, they have to balance whether it's going to create more torch- and pitchfork-waving mobs to delay release, or to put it out and have to mess with it later.

    I do play one toon on Fallen Gate, and yeah, I wish itemization were better.
    Breanna likes this.
  2. Atan Well-Known Member


    The main reasons you guys had trouble killing it are:
    1) Your tanks didn't know what gear to wear
    2) Your buffing classes don't know how to buff

    You could have been 'casually' killing the content if you just scratched a tiny bit deeper in how the game works. Didn't take significant min/maxing, just understanding Ill Will, Applied heals and who to keep CF and JC on 100% of the time.
    Adoninilol likes this.
  3. Atan Well-Known Member


    Totally get that, but don't announce a delay under the pretense of 'getting it right' if you don't have intentions to do anything.
    Sigrdrifa likes this.
  4. Atan Well-Known Member


    There are representatives from ultra casual guilds in 'Raid Council', several of us offered to help them with simple things they could do to kill more content, but no one ever took up the offer
    Zenji and Sigrdrifa like this.
  5. Okanagan Member


    So in your opinion, are you stating that ~every~ single raid mob in the game, should be killable without gear, without the proper items, without the proper raid setup, without strategy, and can be tank and spanked / autod to death. (Note that I did not say P2W, because zero mobs in any expansion on this server have required even summoning a treasured familiar. Every mob is killable without spending money with the exception of your subscription.) In addition you are suggesting that making every mob killable by any character in the game, regardless of skill or time spent is healthy for the game.

    As Adoninilol clearly stated, having easy mobs that are killable by casual guilds is healthy for the game.

    Having hard mobs that are a challenge for 'hard core' players is also healthy for the game.

    It's called compromise.

    Sentinel's Fate is perfect for this, because, ding ding ding, there is easy mode and hard mode version of every mob that can be catered to both sets of players.

    Kander already stated they are buffing hard mode mobs and not the abundant / majority easy mode mobs that there are in this expansion for you to enjoy.
    Adoninilol and Tharrakor like this.
  6. Tharrakor Well-Known Member

    I do certainly hope the buff the heroics as well.
  7. Adoninilol Well-Known Member

    I have the least amount of pay to win out of any t1 dps in ANY guild on server, the same goes for majority of my guild.

    All of my parses exceeding these other wizard's comes purely down to the other guilds players not understanding casting orders or how to buff the right people to get their raid force's dps to look as high as it is. My casting order is on this website on the forums in several places. I've also given it out to several people, as Atan said: we even offered to help one of the "casual" guilds on the server with advice how to kill mobs but they refuse our advice. If you want tank/spank mobs perhaps you should try to go clear some of the earlier raid bosses in this game, there is a reason that we have more AA's, more abilities, to counter the scripts and harder raids put into the game the further along we go.

    Me and others refuse to pay into the scheme that they are putting on the playerbase which is allowing you to get half of your potency from just shelling out your credit card. I'm not going to name the wizards but just do me and favor and look at the other wizards, they have more familiar levels, more grandmasters/ancients, the new pay to win mount etc.

    If you have issues killing content, it has nothing to do with the amount of HP/outgoing damage the mobs have, you are more than likely failing scripts. Which, they can't really nerf unless they make the fail effects on them basically non existent which isn't going to happen. Do you really think your guild can cure curses? Make the act trigger to figure out which curse it is? Click the poles in the correct order while picking up adds and not attack through a reflect? Dodge blocks falling? I already know the answer, if you are failing content as simple as the early TSO encounters/gynok/anashti you won't stand a chance against the hard mode content.

    As I stated, this entire expansion is catered to the casuals already, there is over 4-5x MORE easy mode content than hard mode content. Get through the easy mode content, then talk to me.

    In the original post, if you people actually read instead of just commenting blindly and screaming that we are some evil hardcore players that want no one else to clear things, you would see that I already stated it's good for you guys to be able to kill things. They nerfed the end bosses at the send of TSO, and what happened? The casuals still didn't kill the mobs, the only people who advanced in progression were those who want to be hardcore and try super hard at the game, but don't succeed in that category.
    Season likes this.
  8. Adoninilol Well-Known Member

    I have no doubts they wish they could do a lot more for the server, I don't think they maliciously try to ignore us. I think it ultimately comes down to how many people play on TLE versus live, and the server with the higher player base takes priority which I understand.

    But at the same point, why does live deserve more attention than we do? We have to pay to play on this server, they put in things that are so ridiculous, like familiar's that make up majority of our potency, ancients, research from station cash, no free xp pots/claims, no guild halls, and no training dummies all with the intention to drain more money out of us. This is all stacked up with no feedback even being considered.

    Ultimately what we want is communication. If they came out and said: "hey guys, I know we delayed SF for three weeks but at the end of the day we had a lot of difficulties with other projects/timing and we will get fixes out as soon as we can" I would have no issues with that, I would actually commend them for doing the right thing. Right now they ignore us for weeks and refuse to reply to anything, how do they think this makes us feel as players?
    Sigrdrifa and Season like this.
  9. Adoninilol Well-Known Member

    I'd also like to say my guild being at the "top" of a tle server is fairly casual. We never raided at like 9am like neustart did, we didn't do strict call lists for contesteds ever, it's TLE, we just never cared because of the state of the server/game.

    We didn't require people to level to 90 day one, didn't require 250 AA's the second day, we raid three nights a week.

    We are fairly casual compared to how raid guilds used to operate back in the day raiding 5-6 days a week for 4 hours and a 6 hour sunday raid.

    We leave contesteds up for sometimes days, and no one even tries to kill the mobs we two group.
    Sigrdrifa and Season like this.
  10. Season Active Member

    I dont even have Ill WIll. Just press the right buttons. If you can't, why do peopel think thats our fault


  11. Atan Well-Known Member

  12. Caul Shivers Active Member


    You weren't there on SH, were you lol...? (and I don't mean that as an offense, don't get me wrong)

    Standard is set pretty freaking low, mate. Fyreflyte did what he could from Stormhold TSO onwards (well, mind-ROK), but he's gone now.
    We, as TLE players, are akin to a guy at a restaurant getting bread and water because you once ate a decent steak there - and then being grateful when they later bring you a bit of cake as desert.

    Getting non-updated gear and then hoping for updates in a 14-year old game is the norm now, and was on SH as well.
    I don't really post here (or on Discord) anymore, since we've become sort of jaded when it comes to TLE.
    You get what you get, you make do however you can, content is fixed and broken and then fixed again along the way, and you either go on or not.
    Dozens or hours talking to devs about fixing stuff like charms breaking mobs will do that to you...

    As for raid difficulty... You have to remember everyone knows the mobs.
    First time on Live, some of these mobs weren't necessarily much harder, people just took time figuring it out.
    Now we go in there with AOE timers, ACT triggers and knowing the fail effects - what else can the devs do apart from adjusting the HP of mobs?
    DPS is higher compared to Live (and higher to what it was on SH), PTW stuff all over the place (familiars, ancient spell upgrades, etc.), everyone knows every strat etc.

    Obviously, easy/normal mode content is a walk the park now in SF.
    The raid content is outdated and has mechanics in there that don't fly in modern gaming (CC reactives on mobs were a new thing in 2010, and are absolutely horrible design., especially the uncureable ones or the ones you can't afford to cure; etc) so sometimes upping the HP on mobs just creates a damage sponge - sometimes with added challenge (mostly in form of adds or an enrage timers), but mostly with added boredom (simple easy-moderate mobs who are just unnecessarily fat).
    So I don't really mind that on simple mobs, artificially beefing them up with stupid HP just makes it boring, not challenging.
    HM mobs... Sure.

    Anyway, the only real way to make TLE raid content make perfect sense (again, where everyone knows the encounters) is to tier it with proper itemization and gear progression.
    Which they have no resources for, and under the 6-week per new content plan - there is no time for anyway.

    Under the current conditions, best we can hope for is a blanket-update on items and maybe they take a look at the HM mobs individually.

    Then again, might be just me, my expectations are fairly low after all this time. :p

    At least on FG we don't have to deal with mobs continually resetting because of the charms like oh SH.
    Baby steps.



    Nimrael, Europa, Stormhold Fallen Gate
  13. Adoninilol Well-Known Member

    I was on stormhold, and the mobs were still charming and resetting on Fallen Gate by the way, we just got them semi fixed before you got there.

    As far as your initial analogies if you want to accept support like that and sit quiet; by all means, sit quiet. However, I as a player: will not.
    .
    We went into this expansion with only two ACT triggers, one being the eat timer for toxxulia, and the curse trigger for maalus. Both of which took me around 30 seconds to make and could of been easily figured out assuming it was the first time. I did not make a single AoE timer.

    Mobs hitting harder requires people to do things like joust, which we don't do now. It also requires players to get more gear, and the more HP mobs have the longer you have to do these scripts which creates an element of paying attention/continued co-ordination and negates the ability to straight burn things (like we did...).

    Now I understand that not every guild is momentum, not every guild has near a million raid wide, not every guild has healers who can cure, not every guild has tanks who can pick up adds, players who can joust etc. Which is why I suggested that only the hard modes are buffed. If those guilds who can't do the aforementioned things farm up enough easy mode gear, you can start to trivialize the encounters with gear and kill it later. Every other guild on the server can also go back and clear/flawless TSO which they didn't do if they are having trouble with the later hard mode encounters, those mobs not only drop loot which would help, but also are a good stepping stone in difficulty to prepare raids with less fail effects attached to them.

    I've already called for several times for mobs to drop more gear to compensate for this, trying to shove a year worth of loot into twelve weeks isn't working. Itemization doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to make sense. A blanket itemization fix and a buff to hard mode mobs is all im asking for. The TSO double loot should be enabled full time on this server for it to make sense, otherwise we run into what happened with munzok/miragul with not even getting close to getting all the loot that you would get back in the original timeline.

    My expectations are fairly moderate, i'm simply asking for the same things that happened in TSO to happen to sentinel's fate, TSO wasn't perfect. But it at least had some effort put into it~
  14. Caul Shivers Active Member


    Most of the mobs with charms were changed to stuns after the mess on SH. And most of the charms were on easy mobs like Silverwing and Xebnok.

    And true, there were no charms when we got there on MMIS vampires, Silverwing or Xebnok (Silverwing and Xebnok being the biggest culprits on Stormhold).
    So thank you for getting them "semi fixed before we got there", sometimes on the same day, even. Very kind.

    Anyway, my point was that the expectations, based on prior experience, are pretty low.
    Blanket-changes to items and the hard-mode mobs looked at is the most we can hope for.
  15. Atan Well-Known Member

    Adon is refering to the charms we got them to fix in TSO. QQ and Miragul mostly that were never fixed on SH.
  16. Fistpower Well-Known Member

    From our community manager....

    And now complete silence from DBG. This triggers me the most. What did they do in those 3 weeks for the TLE? Will they tell us what the plan is or is complete silence a valid buisness strategy in 2018?

    Can our community manager shed some light on the future of this server and especially SF raid tuning and heroic/fabled gear stats?
  17. Adoninilol Well-Known Member

    I am very kind yes.

    Up your expectations, if the entire server said something this thread would have a response by now.

    I don't think that she is allowed to comment unless she knows what is going on specifically, and she in no way will respond to criticism that she has no way of defending other than shutting down the thread or deleting posts, which isn't defending it, it's covering it up.

    She also works on a few others game's i'm told.
  18. Satyr Well-Known Member

    I suspect this is partially driven by the developers knowing that the server won't last past DoV regardless. I wouldn't be surprised if the aim is just to keep Fallen Gate ticking along until the PVP event server is ready to launch. I don't have a stake in this, but I've also come to just not expect anything from DBG. I think they messed up in SH/DT by misjudging how popular TLE would be, but they weren't able to get new resources in time to make it work. From then on there's just been poor project management all the way through.
  19. Khun New Member

    A lot of arrogance in this chat channel. Yeah, I'm for making hard mode mobs tougher too, but quit acting like you're all prodigies. There's a lot of competent people on the server who know how to play. A lot of us choose to not be in the #1 guild so we can help carry others. Try being in a guild with weaker support/utility and putting up the same numbers. Do you think we're not pressing the same buttons? There's far too many variables to claim you're gods, when there's a lot of talented people who are living up to their full potential, but in a weaker force. Get over yourselves, its getting old.
  20. Adoninilol Well-Known Member

    I know for awhile they said it was never gonna happen, I wonder if they had made one of these years ago when the game was super popular how successful it could of been. Then again, it's population probably would of been quite a few live servers put together~

    Good thing there is much more easy mode content in this expansion catered to your guild compared to mine~

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