this is correct. however they also reportet that their CAs are broken atm and dont work. so their low dps is not due to the proc changes alone. the major reason is broken skills. although procs and poisons are an important part of ranger dps atm it is no where near 60-70% of your dps, which it would have to be if the loss of procs alone would drop you to 450 dps. If they dont fix your CAs and AA, then you will have a valid reason to complain but this has nothing to do with procs.
it's real simple. A well played Ranger, does 2x + dmage on every raid parse from the next highest non-ranger. If you're not one of them, I'm sorry. This change, according to one of the most knowledgable and highest dps'ing Rangers I know, will probably account for a 30-40% damage nerf. By his own admission, he'll still be top on the parses, but now he'll really have to "try", and maybe once in a blue moon it's *possible* that he'll be outparsed. When he tells me that it's a fair nerf, that makes me believe that this is a step in the right direction.
ok see this post to verify alot of what my parses have said - that rangers DPS were way overpowered and in a tier of their own. And again, to those warlocks who said they rarely get beat by their rangers and that they are in top raiding guilds - lol - your rangers blow a55 if they dont 1.5x your damage overall and almost 2x on single targets. Also FYI: The zone is Gates (which was the worst Lock zone there was) BUT these parses are after they removed resists so all my spells pretty much hit for the same. Only thing I am waiting to hear now from the Devs is that Necro/Conjuror DPS is too high and my work is done Seriously, I dont care to share or give 10-20% either way to Wizards, rangers, or assassins. But Summoner DPS is higher than warlocks on single targets (tons of dots), and they have 3 nice group AEs which can do about 60% of what a warlock can do, plus they have some of the best utilities in game (rez, heals, call of the hero, mana-generating items, single target HP buffs), they are the sickest soloers, and they can park their pets in an aggro area and get xp while afk and its "working as intended." Funny thing, is why did it take all of DoF expansion for Devs to get these DPS numbers for rangers? They could have gotten this information much faster.
Yet another person that clearly doesn't play a Necro and knows nothing about them. Necro's have 2 DoT's. Not "tons" as you put it. We also have one nuke, our life tap that hits around 800-1000 depending on int and upgrade. Now you also said we have 3 group AE's. Wow I must be missing the other 2. Because I only have 1 group AE and it's a DoT that does 170 every 4 sec. We have 1 PBAE that hits for 800ish. And we have a wierd one time use AE that really isn't practical to use that hits for 1000ish. But you really only get to use it 1 time on a raid then it's gone. So I'd hardly count that one. You also may not know this but 6 of our 50+ spells come in the form of gathered souls. That AE is one. We have to cast a spell on a mob and when it dies there is a "chance" we get one of those 6 spells. It's a slim chance too. If a necro is out DPSing you on a regular basis then you might want to look at your casting order. Finding the most efficient order can be tricky and I am still tweaking mine. Also there are times when the DPS numbers from parsers are just dead wrong. Which is probably why they Dev's use internal logging and see things a bit different than we do. Just a thought but maybe rate your spells on Dmg Per time it takes to cast and recast. This is not only a better way to gauge who "can" do what. But will also help you to find the best casting order. The only exception would be debuff that don't do dmg. And you would always want to cast those first if you want to see max dmg.
Hello, I don't mean to be contrary, and I assume I am misunderstandiing here, but my 50 Necro has: Skinrot line DoT, Death's Coil line DoT, Decaying Darkness line DoT/snare, Swarm of Bats, and the dumbfires if you want to count them (I consider them a dispellable DoT but that's just me). There is also the Encounter based DoT, but I don't use that on solo mobs for efficiency reasons. I have 2 basic nukes, the Lifetap and Word of Force. Word of Force is hardly breathtaking, I admit. Message Edited by GPA_Shipwreck on 02-17-200605:18 AM
Word of Force - on the same timers as life tap. So really only usefull as a replacement for LT on dis resisitant mobs Decaying Darkness line - at 60 I think it's doing 40-50 per 4 sec. So its not really worth mentioning. Swarm of Bat - is a lvl 35 spell, so by 60 it is useless. Dumbfire pets - Are not DoT's they are pets. DoT's can't be killed by AE's. And because of that they are almost useless on raids. Even if you count all of these, under the best conditions these spells don't come close to anything wiz/warlock get.
Lol, this is too [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] funny; poor, poor, ranger. The fact of the matter is, before LU13 warlocks where at the top of the DPS heap by a wide margin. Sure I loved it but we where overpowered relative to other classes and things needed to change and they did. I'm still not thrilled about our new AoE role but our DPS is respectable and definitely not at the top of the heap. That role now belongs to rangers and rangers are way overpowered. I've done thousands of parses on raids and rangers are almost always on the top by a wide margin. No one wants to see rangers nerfed into oblivion but their DPS needs to be brought in line with other tier 1 dps classes.
Thanks Ship for telling this guy who "obviously knows nothing about necros" that he has more dots (even if he decides not to count some as dots) then he said he did (lied) in the forums here. Ill have to remember not to trust his post from here on out. Thats like saying Netheros isnt a dot - it is. A dumbfire pet that hits for dmg over time - hence DoT. Yeah a few mobs can ae and kill it and itll stop - but a few mobs can ae and kill warlocks and their dots will stop. Anyways, I was slightly off with the AEs' -- that's Conjurors not Necros (my post said summoners) - but you stil have 2 and not 3. Guess I was thinkng about the utilities you have - HP buff, ressurect dead, mana hearts. Therefore, oddly enough I dont play a necromancer but seem to know more about its DPS than you do - I have parses from many raids detailing their dps, and even their dumbfire pets. Back to the point, now rangers got nerfed of their DPS - next on the list is conjurors - specifically Necromancers. Why? Because we are alrady sharing top tier DPS with wizards and rangers and assassins - even brigands, and summoners are supposed to be T2 at best with their offensive pet and generally finish behind rangers close to wizards and warlocks if not beating them. ALl that DPS and the best soloers in the game with offensive and defensive pets - PLUS some the best utilities in the game (Call of the Hero, healing, rezzzing dead, mana regen items, Large HP buffs for main tanks, feign death). As I said to rangers, you can have our dps summoners, if you trade us buffs/utilities (posion/disease resists and ord,sub,mini, buff). Message Edited by Sevman on 02-17-200611:18 AM
Well then by your own rational Sev, I guess I can't trust anything you said either since you lied as well. LOL, really there is no need to get your panties in a bunch. It's not my fault you can't play your class to it's full potential. And Ship is correct at 50 those spells are viable. But not at 60. But who really cares. So I have a "ton" of DoT, yippy Sev. You have a "Ton" of nukes and AE's. I think you should be nerfed because you have more nuking power than me lol. Seriously though, get over your class envy and stop trying to be a necro. Or just go make a necro if you like our dmg so much.
Just some more proof that Scyros doesn't understand the real issue here. The dps classes were all designed to fit in a certain tier currently summoners/rangers are exceeding there tier and surpasing the wiz/warlocks that are supposed to be the top tier 1 dps. Due to a few issues the procs mainly for rangers and over powered pets from summoners , aswell both classes have a much easier time of managing agro and pushing there dps to its max by being able to spam skills non stop without little worry of power consumption issues. Rangers have the ability to shed there agro to another player of there choice as well as CA's that add more agro to the next person hit namely the MT. Summoners are able to split agro with there pets which they can engage/disegage as needed to dodge ae's so that the hate isnt all dumped on to them. Sorcers have 1 skill concussive that only works on the next spell which doesnt even come close to reducing the agro generation of our spells, at best as a Warlock grouped with a Troub and Paladin combo I can get off 3 ae's back to back before pulling agro and dieing. Thats roughly 80% plus agro reduction plus concussive at the start, like you told Sevman to learn to play his class I think most of the Warlocks/Wizards here have worked out there optimal spell combinations which ultimately ends up with large gaps in our dps while we wait between spell combos to avoid over agroing as just part of the issue. Power consumption is another major problem on raids for us some reason the devs think its ok for our spells to use more power then any other class creating major issues on fights over 3 mins as were stuck trying to regen power and then our dps bottoms out. I don't think anyone here has class envy or realy wants any other class nerfed what most seem to want aswell as myself is things to be as the Devs said they would be. As it should be to off set what Sorcerers loose in other area's such as survivability and utility to be the Top Tier 1 dps classes.
It's not overly fair parsing raid dps and calling for summoner nerfs when stacking their dps up against tier one classes. Summoners are in a unique situation where the longer the mob stays up the more damage they do. IE When you've run out of power, the summoner is still putting out consistant dps because the pets don't have a constant power drain, It's made worse by the fact that they (Necros at least) also have really good in combat power regen from Lich. I think the Dev's agree to an extent that Wizards and Warlocks should be doing more dps on raid targets, hence the nerf to summoner swarm pets. I think they are kind of stymied though with what they can do because any thing that effects sustainable damage versus burst will affect the summoners negatively when they try to get groups. They aren't out dpsing tier one classes in groups from what I have seen. My feeling is they need to add something that will improve tier one power usage on long term mobs, maybe slow acting dots that cut power usage of spells in half the longer the target is up.
As I said to rangers, you can have our dps summoners, if you trade us buffs/utilities (posion/disease resists and ord,sub,mini, buff). What side of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] are you on? Warlocks already HAVE a poison/disease resist. And the rot line is not a DoT. It's a mini-nuke, just like the bolt line. It lasts four seconds, and does similar damage. Decaying darkness is also NOT a dot. It's a snare that has a chance to break (like every other snare) on taking ANY damage. It just happens to do a piddily amount of damage, but doesn't last more than one or two ticks. If you're on a raid and there's no healer to rez you, maybe you oughta be out soloing somwhere instead. Yeah a few mobs can ae and kill it and itll stop - but a few mobs can ae and kill warlocks and their dots will stop. Are you out there bashing the mob with your staff? Or do the mobs you fight have zonewide aoe's? And you need to stop lumping all of the summoner skills into one: as far as I know, conjurors don't get FD. Or a rez. Or any healing. And necro's don't get call of the hero, or large HP buffs (unless you mean the STA buff = 200ish HP Wow! Huge!) or the 30s duration one that can be used once or so on a raid. That's the same as someone else saying sorcerors should get nerfed since they have ice comet and the negative absolution lines. Maybe you should go try playing one of those classes so you can know what you're talking about rather than looking at a bunch of vague, misleading (and easily juked) numbers.
The real issue? Yes I understand the real issue. And it has nothing to do with Conj, Necro, Ranger, Assassin, or any other class but Warlocks. Why not ask the Dev's to fix your class instead of jumping on to the "nerf-insert name of random class here" bandwagon. The problem is 2 fold imo. First, Warlocks and Wizzard generate too much agro for the amount of dmg they produce. Whether that is a group make up issue or not on raid idk. But I think it's a code bug with your spells. So what happens is most war/wiz end up low balling there dmg on raids to keep from getting agro. Now natually since no other class has this issue and can spam CA's we all "apear" to out dmg you guys. Second problem is ironic a problem necro's used to have before CU. You spells are really cost on the power side. I guess it's like it was with necros. You have the means to regen power at a slightly faster rate so they make your spells cost a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] load. Problem is the balance between these two systems is not right. Warlock burn power way to fast. You fix those issues and you guys will own DPS just like rangers and assassins. And it's got nothing to do with Necro's or Conj. On a side note, the bug with procs will effect everyone. So you will see necro pets DPS take a small hit. Our pets have a couple of procs but only one that does large dmg. Conj's on the other had might be hit a bit harder. If I recall they have 2 large dmg procs or there pets. Also thanks Vilnus for backing me up there. Some people seem to thing a lvl 35 DoT is usefull at 60 lol.
Typically I find I rank 3rd-6th on our raid DPS, ahead of some wizards (especially grps or where they have innate magic/heat/cold resists) and behind illusionists and rangers and pretty close to assassins. Granted I may play a little more fast and loose with agro than others, and I depend pretty hard on my concussive, but it isn't impossible to be a serious DPS force. Granted I would like some shorter cast times, a decent level 60 spell (Corrupt Gift blows) and a decent power feed, but DPS for warlocks isn't horrible.
I actually play both classes, so I tend to view anyone who complains without knowing much an idiot. So keep your namecalling to yourself. And FYI you said summoners can have your resists if we gave you more dps. I pointed out the obvious fact that we have the same ones, which you acknowleged. So I'm not sure what your problem is. (mind filling me in on how tracking or pathfinding help on a raid?) I already pointed out that dooming darkness and death rot ARE NOT DoT's. Period. Death rot is the same as the bolt line. similar damage, just divided out over the four seconds that it takes to recast it. THE EXACT SAME THING AS THE BOLT LINE, JUST A DIFFERENT WAY OF DOLING IT OUT. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. Dooming darkness does jack for damage, it's mostly a snare, and has a very good chance to break on the target taking damage. It is a snare. NOT A DoT. It rarely goes off more the 2 or 3 times for 100 or so damage. You want it? Take it! It's very situational, and the damage that IT causes can break the spell. Occasional soothing soul or flayers soul? You obviously don't know how we get them, so there's not point in explaining how useful they really are. Well, the last time I raided there were quite a few healers. Not like one of the back-up's back-ups' couldn't have spent 5 secs casting one. And necro's should be able to rez: it's not like we've got a whole lot to do, with our whopping 1 nuke. get 1) Undead Charm spell 2) One of the best group buffs in game ( STAMINA and INT) 3) Unstoppable Soul (14% increase in MAIN TANKS health - this can be over a 1000 HP) 4) Poison/disease and max power buff - exact same as warlocks 5) Ressurection - non-healer rezzing is plain great for raids 6) Sacrifical Heart - awesome power regen for all raid/group members Yeah, can't tell you how many places that charm spell comes in handy. Since I'm not allowed to use it in a raid. Since at adept III i have yet to get it to last over 4 minutes (out of 30 or something). That's on everything from a ^^^ to a vvv. 2. Yeah, my adept 3 STA buff adds like 250 hitpoints. But I don't end up in the MT group, so it hardly matters. 3. For 30 secs. Once per raid. You forgot that part. I forget whether they had to be healed of the difference of the increase. 6. They must have fixed them then, or increased their power regen. Mine was terrible: only ever had one guy asking for them. Think he felt sorry for me. Do you not use the venomous runes? Or the poisonous veil? Or boon of the dark? Because necros don't have any buff like that that they can put on someone else.
Actually, the biggest problem I have is getting interrupted way too much. I haven't noticed this with any of my other mage's, just my warlock. Oh, and warlock's can cast their invis while running.
So stop crying and make a necro then Sev. Clearly you can't seem to enjoy Warlock. Geez. I mean your so "UBER" that you should be able to lvl to 70 in 2 weeks. I really like the way you list your spells useing vauge and derogatory language. Then go into great detail about how you think necro and conj spells work, and how great they are. Death Rot may be a DoT technically so I'll give you that. But the 57 master 1 does about 150-160 a sec(going off memory) for 4 sec. Now it also hits on the opening so thats 5 tics. So thats 750-800 dmg over 4 sec. Not really what I would call stellar dmg at lvl 60. And if you look at the numbers over a whole raid of just a necro, you will see our DPS is about 200. Our pets make up the rest of our DPS beyind that. And in most cases thats around 300. I don't have master 1 pets just Ad3 so maybe that is what you are seeing. But I can post my lost from the last 10 gates raids we've done and you will see my DPS between 500-600. Grated like I said I'm the raid leader as well so maybe I could squeeze out a bit more if I was not leading. But not 300-400 more DPS like you seem to think. I do have all of my DoT's and all of my buffs mastered. And yes our MT grp alway has either conj or necro unless there is some resist that we need that isn't being covered like mental or something. But thats rare. Like I said you really need to look at why your class is so much lower than ranger/assassin. You goal should be to get you boosted. Not someone else nerfed. Because your class is broken and that is not our(necro/conj) fault. And please stop tossing around this "I'm in a hard core raiding guild" line. I'm not saying anything good or bad about you. But I know alot of people on Befallen from the top guild that are great players. And I also know alot from those same guild that are terrible players. Just being in Fallen, SS, EC doesn't mean "you" are anything special. You might be, I don't know. One last thing. You can't really use the rational of "you don't play a high end warlock" so you can't comment. After all, you don't play a high end necro so you would seem to be breaking your own rule here. It's just making you look silly
