Raid Progression Screwy: Boost HM Drunder Loot.

Neiloch@Butcherblock wrote:

I would have no problem "trusting" that feedback is being read if there was actual evidence of changes based upon said feedback on this massive issues.
But, there has been absolutely nothing done what so ever.
Such in action and silence leaves the player base to draw no other conclusion besides those in charge just dont give a darn what so ever anymore.

Geothe wrote:

I've been here since day 1, and I was in eq1 since day 1. I have more experience with SoE than almost anyone.
I've never seen them so strongly, and willfully ignore an issue as big as this that is driving people out of the game at the rate it is. I'm flabergasted as to why the unwillingness to even acknowledge the issues.
But hey, they're busy getting ready for E3...

Well based on a artical on EQ2Wire it looks like the Div's have adressed this problem.
"In other news, the rewards for completing the sprawling Underdepths group dungeon introduced with Gu63: Skyshrine will soon at least equal, if not surpass the quality of items that drop inside the zone, or in earlier, easier instances. From Kander:"
But i may be wrong, Kander is only taking about the Raid Quest reward....

Silzin@Crushbone wrote:

I believe they're talking about the quest rewards and the itemization of the ranged items within skyshrine raid zone.

This has nothing to do with the issues in this thread.

still /crickets?!
Is a freaking simple solution:

Make HM Drunder gear a hair better than EM SS gear, while lower than HM SS gear. Then itemization will actually match encounter difficulty and more than double the worthwhile raid content for players to use!

Geothe wrote:

It doesn't even need to be better, just as good works, since there isn't more than 3 hours of raid content in skyshrine.
The primary issue is we need something else to do that feels meaningful to our raiders.

So another posting of the oh so useful monthly "update plans."
And yet again, the issues with messed up itemization and progression, and the overall lack of relevant raid content is outright ignored.

You have your answer it seems. They don't respond to the issues, they don't have any published plans to do anything about it.
In their eyes, the game is as it should be. We just need to find another game to play since there isn't enough content in eq2 anymore to engage us full time.

No worries you can go do dungeon maker with your own toon now. lol
Not sure I can stand playing this game much longer. Already droped my second account my primary may be going soon. If I didint like the people I raided with I would be long gone. Its also stange that the best weapon and shield drop in a group EM instance. I would say they need to fire the Dev who thought of that, but I dont think they have any Devs left.

Sullon's Spire [Challenge], Tallon's Stronghold [Challenge] and Vallon's Tower [Challenge] Raids will have new itemization with GU 64. Item scope will be boosted to be in between Skyshrine normal mode raids and challenge mode raids.
Yes, I said new. Current Drunder HM items will not be upgraded. Normal Drunder items will not be changed/upgraded.
War Runes will stay. There will just be new armor, accessories and weapons etc.

Kander wrote:

So, the armor players are using now will stay the same, but the loot tables will be switched to new items? Very nice. Thanks for the update on this, will give people who haven't bothered with HM Drunder some more relevant content, and those who have will have a reason to go back.

Thanks Kander.
That will give 3 more zones worth running then.

Silzin@Crushbone wrote:

How does that analogy make sense? It would if you were currently farming Drunder HM for gear, then this change was announced, but right now there's no reason to do that with Skyshrine gear being better and easier to get. The zones are being itemized, and itemized in a way that will give guilds that have already finished with the zones a reason to return to them. In essence, they're recycling content to hold us over until the next real update. No matter what though, this is a step forward, and it's definitely refreshing to see a red name post about a positive change in itemization/raid progression.

There is no reason it should take until August (GU64) to reitemize HM drunder: all the loot is script-generated as it is (and half copy/paste). I imagine many serious raiders could generate it in excel in a day given what SOE's target stats should be (eg the base CB/pot). It should have been upgraded when Skyshrine went live as well, the content requires considerably more skill and attention to execute than EM skyshrine hands down (especially since skyshrine is zergable since it does not have the heal-on-death mechanic on most mobs). Loot isn't an art push or anything either, it can be added or changed in a hotfix, we've seen that enough before.
Not upgrading old items is a cop out that is even worse than the delay. EM Skyshrine can be cleared easily in one night (3 hours or less) for a decent guild, after that the only thing left to work on is HM skyshrine (which requires gating EM), HM drunder (where the loot isn't worth the difficulty) or PoWar (which is a considerable jump up in difficulty over skyshrine). What is the motivation to do HM drunder now when the loot is inferior and the actual items will not be upgraded? It's not like the difficulty of the encounters will change when the loot does, if anything it is harder now with less loot (and without any post-GU64 improved drunder HM loot).
Maybe the excuse is it's a new person doing itemization and skyshrine-style is different than drunder style? Except that's not a valid excuse: simply put up a merchant selling the new equivalent item for the old drunder HM item 1:1 (could even tack some plat on there as a sink) and there you go. Sure it'll take a little bit of work to set up the full list of possable equivalences (call it 2 man-days) on the merchant for each class. But realistically not every item would have to be done that way, most of the individual subclass items could simply be swapped out for the appropriate new archetype or class item. Either way is a modicum of work but the right thing to do, rather than the lazy "it'll just drop the new loot after the GU and all old items stay the same, sorry" approach.

It's kind of a catch 22. Because it is being done so late it really has to be done this way or else you run in to the very serious problem of what do you do with all the people who already transmuted their gear. Skyshrine gear being so high in the first place caused the problem, and I really don't see a better solution then this. The people who had the gear in the first place and spent all the time farming it are probably making progress through PoW and upgraded most of the gear past what it is going to be anyways. You could nerf SS gear to where it should have been to begin with, but that creates even more problems. Aside from pushing people back in progression because they are now less capable, it'd be even worse because people already transmuted the drunder gear and would have to farm for the exact same piece. At least now when they farm, they not only have better gear then they did before, making it easier, you'll be farming on corrected loot tables that make sense (no more everything being scout/fighter). The people who already know how to do this stuff will plow through it. I just hope a lesson was learned that the fastest way to do something is to do it right the first time. Not having someone on itemization can create massive problems that spawn out in to a lot of areas that really hurt the players. Skyshrine really showed this. This isn't ideal, because the ideal solution was for this to never need to happen. It is making the best out of a bad situation.

I just hope PoW gear will get a huge boost then, since its risk vs reward is even more broken as Drunder HM is/was.

Really happy that Kander posted that. We have been asking for awhile now, Skyshrine easy mode has been out of whack for awhile considering there are PUGS that can probably do 80% of the EM skyshrine zones. Glad that the harder content ( Drunder) is finally where it should have been. X4 Zones that can be steamrolled with 2 groups should not be classified as "raid zones". 100% with Slipp, Skyshrine EM loot shouldn't have been as high as it is. I'm really happy cause this really shows that the Devs started listening to the community instead of catering to all the "THIS IS TOOOO HARD OMGZZZZZ" people.. Thank you, this was much needed... Even though it should have been done sooner ( WAYYYY sooner, probably with Skyshrine launch) ...

This is the best way to handle it. If they would just upgrade drunder hm armor many of us who transmuted it all would be pretty mad. New loot tables for drunder hm is the best thing that can happen for raiders.

I banked all mine assuming it would be fixed. Lost that gamble.

Kander wrote:

Kander,
Thanks for finally addressing this, but I have a question and your post didn't specifically address this detail.
Will the new Drunder Hard Mode items (specifically the charms, cloak, ranged, and belts) retain their red slots so that we will have items to attach the war runes to? I believe you moved away from red slotted items in PoW according to a dev post because devs were unhappy with the way they turned out and that carried over to Skyshrine content.
Some of those war runes in Drunder Hard Mode (and Kael) are the most desireable items in the zone currently and can be huge factors in helping progression. Not having red slots to use those runes with or having to go back and farm Kael or Easy Mode Drunder for red slots would not be very enticing or fun in my opinion. I can just imagine the posts now when someone loots a 185+ stat item and a war rune from Sullon but then they have to go farm for 130 stat items from easy mode kael or 148's from druner em to use them on. This really won't make any logical sense.
If you are not going to keep the red slots, can we PLEASE have an open discussion about getting these effects built into specific drops from the named bosses so that we have access to those effects.
Could we even possibly entertain a discussion about adding the most desirable war rune procs from Kael into a few of the starter items from the first few bosses? I'm thinking something along the lines of Split Second Redemption built into the healer belt off of Gregor, Storm Essence built into the healer weapon off of Gregor, etc. This would give everyone access to the procs that they need without having to waste time farming kael and easy mode drunder zones looking for a rune that drops 1 out of 15 runs and 8 different healers need it.