Hi all, I'm rolling on a PVP server (Naggy) and the group so far is: Paladin Mage (Conjurer, Wizard) Healer (Templar likely) and Me I'm trying to decide between Troubador and Dirges, and I know the difference between the two is one is more benefit to melee and the other is more benefit to casters. Which is better at dealing melee damage? Dirge because of the buffs to melee he gives? Does the troubador do little damage? or is it done through songs? Thanks in advance
troub works in that group. dirge doesnt. troub is caster heavy meele and dirge is meele with a couple spells. pick a troub for that group.
Troubs and dirges are both hybrids with approximately the same number of combat arts and spells. They do very similar damage and the damage types are weighted to melee/CA for both. In a raid setting a troub shines for a caster group and the dirge shines for tank/scout groups primarily due to the differences in their buffs. In a single group setting dirges are almost always preferred over a troub. IMO the proposed group would benefit more from a dirge because the protections, enhancements and dps the dirge brings to the Paladin tank, the dirge, the healer and the group as a whole are superior to what the troub brings mostly to one class mage. Unique Buffs: Dirge - stoneskin, parry, haste (CoB), DPS buff, heal, rez, hate, weapon skills, Gravitas (healer buff) Troub - haste, defense, spell reflection, group deaggro, Maestro, Jesters, spell skills, health regen. Duubard
Full_Metal_Mage wrote: True that we have more spells than combat arts but they are mostly buffs and debuffs. When you compare other than buffs and debuffs bards they are close..... Dirges Damage combat arts - 6 - Deprivating shot, Siphon Blade, Scream of Blood, Shriek Blade, Grim Strike, Vile Blade Damage Spells -7- Dissonant Requiem, Devigorating Diacante, Lanet's Scream, Rhyming Curse, Chime of Blades, Penetrating Shriek, Howl of Death. In addition Dirges have the opportunity to pick up 5 abilities that are combat arts through the bard AA and 1 ability that is a combat art from the Shadow line. Troubs Damage combat arts - 6 - Draining Incursion, Stifiling Missile, Bright Blade, Night Strike, Ceremonial Blade, March of Blades Damage Spells - 9 - Painful Lamentations, Chaos Anthem, Devigorating Discante, Aria of Magic, Vexing Verses, Precision of the Mestro, Reverberating Shrill, Thunderous Ovation, Tap Essence In addition Troubs have the opportunity to pick up 5 abilities that are combat arts through the bard AA and 1 ability that is a combat art from the Shadow line. Duubard
I agree with Duubard on this one.. For PvP with that setup I would chose Dirge for sure.. Also I see onloy 5 spots, I would consider a Fury to be number 6 with the setup you have, that would give some nice buffs to the casters, dps when needed and fast heals to Pally if that is needed..
Go wtih a troub. Pallys and the mage will benefit and the healer can rez. Also, I troub can help with controling the encounter. Jesters cap will be useful for everyone in the group.
Sochi@Nagafen wrote: Again theres the mistaken assumption that the Pally is a spellcaster. A pally is a fighter hybrid heavily weighted to CA/Melee even more so than a bard. Damage Spells vs Damage CAs Spells - 7 -Consecration, Break Will, Righteous Weapon, Castigation, Refusal of Atonement, Judgement, Verdict CAs -9 - Cleave Faith, Doom Rays, Faith Strike, Pentient Kick, Circular Smite, Call to Redemption, Heroic Dash, Circle of Conviction, Holy Strike In addition the Pallys Crusader line offer4 AAs that are CAs only 1 Spell, the pally line 1 Spell and the Shadow line 3 CA based. Finally I have all the classes mentioned by the OP and IMO the dirge is the superior choice. Duubard - Dirge, Duutru - Troubador, Duffus - Wizard, Duufuss - Pally
duuf wrote: You forgot four debuff spells (failure to debuff = fail), Keen Tactics, Spell Rebuff, Daro's and Clara's. There's also Fearful March (hehe). You also did not count Cry of the Banshee. So that's 6 CAs versus 12 (or 13) Spells. Of our 6 CAs, one is ranged, two require stealthed state (thank you SOE for completely borking up bards by planting us in the scout "archetype") and two are positional (one of those is also one of the stealth attacks). We're not really hybrids since we are more spell caster than melee. It's not as if we do roguish auto-attack damage.
duuf wrote: There are some Paladin spells that are miscategorized in the Knowledge book. Circle of Conviction is a spell, not a CA. Break Will is a melee attack with a spell component. Now that's my idea of hybridization. A skill or ability that is both spell and melee.
Full_Metal_Mage wrote: Yep Circle of Conviction is a strange one with its damage controlled by Intelligence instead of strength and Break Will controlled by strength instead of Intel, but the count remains unchanged. The Pally is more figher than caster and as such benefits more from a Dirge than a Troub. Duubard
Full_Metal_Mage wrote: Thanks for the correction on leaving out Banshee our trademark spell tsk tsk on Duubard but remove Devigorating Discante as it is not a damage spell, the count remains. If you read the whole section and the preceding posts you will see that buffs and debuffs are discussed and it is true that bards have more Spells than Combat Arts. Does not make them a caster because you are shortchanging melee and overstating spells. As far as auto-attack my dirge parses right with the other scouts in our guild. Its the power of their CA's and poisons that give them the edge. Check most parses and you will see most of our production comes from melee/CA. Here is Duubards latest 1st level Ancient Palace of the Ancient as an example - 53% - Melee 18% - CA 16% - spells 3% from AA that are CAs (this is from only 2 of the 6 AA possiblities) 10% procs IMO in what matters most this makes us NOT hybrid casters, but hybrid melee/ca scouts and a Dirge in group does more for a hybrid scout and also for a hybrid fighter ie: Paladin or Shadowknight. Duubard
