PVP-server

Discussion in 'General TLE Discussion' started by Sapporosan, Aug 8, 2017.

  1. Neritti Member

    If they can afford to put dedicated resource on something like this, then hopefully they do for this server and itemization in TSO before it lands. Itemization in RoK has been rather horrible in many ways, and just got even worse when they went to go "fix" things. ;) Nobody should *have* to hold onto treasured quest reward gear for fear of their legendary/fabled dungeon gear they spent time on, getting nerfed to be quite worse than treasured. >.<
    Cheallaigh likes this.
  2. Maledicere Member

    I can't even begin to imagine how they could consider it, seriously. After level 80, it went from some classes, some gear broken to nearly everything broken.

    There is no way they can have a balanced PVP server unless it's a TLE server capped at a low level or something similar to "agnostic battlegrounds" that is far better balanced than their previous attempt.

    I would be extremely, extremely shocked if it could be successful enough to keep over 200 players active in peak hours after a month. And when you think of the distribution of levels...anything less would be quickly abandoned for sheer lack of actual PVP opportunities.
    Sigrdrifa likes this.
  3. Kazooooooooooo Active Member

    Nice to see it announced officially in some fashion

    It'd have to be TLE and if the other TLE servers are an indication the population would decline before we reached a point where things were too busted. And Nagafen died due to the separation of PvP and PvE as well as all of the pace of play changes(flying mounts, quick travel.)

    Keep in mind PvP in this game isn't balance and never will be. This is a phenomenal PvE game that has PvP enabled, it isn't meant to be balanced around the latter. If it turns out their plan is BG's or any sort of instanced PvP I think its a waste of time. If you don't do it right the first time why bother doing it at all? If the plan is to have separated instanced PvP you're setting the server up to fail. People need to be enthralled from the start, not like on Deathtoll where PvE was laughable and left nothing but PvP. The first two xpacs had 1 difficult mob and that's just unacceptable.

    I really feel need to emphasize separation is not the answer. Whether its a BG, a flagged thing or even a separate version of the zone it will be just a waste of time unless its done correctly. Getting ganked sucks, getting camped sucks. It's part of playing the game though, Sony's first mistake was listening to the vocal minority who would prefer to complain then compete. I know it might not be what you want to hear but if you're not willing to die or get ganked you shouldn't play on a PvP server.
  4. splatterpunk28 Well-Known Member

    Kazoooo: You are describing exactly what the point of contention was.

    Many people quit PvP because it was a 6 v 2 scenario, or a 24 vs 12, etc. When the ONLY PvP you can encounter is NO CHALLENGE, the fun is gone. People hid in their guild halls, their houses and only came out in super groups (or got over the fact they'd be ganked, nonstop until they logged.) Their solution was BGs for those that were sick of that problem...and again...it was badly planned and preformed mega-groups had no one to challenge them. The only truly popular moment of BGs was when the PVP gear was actually decent and XP wasn't bad either, "free" PVE gear. People were willing to stomach the lack of challenge because the rewards were decent enough.

    So while I'd agree with your assessment that it needs to be fundamentally a PvE server that is PvP enabled, the rules of PvP engagement are complicated if you want some type of coded "fairness". They are not going to do a free-for all PVP server where a level 100 can kill a level 5, so all of those rules are going to take time and effort. Not to mention modifying unspeakable amounts of gear, procs and balancing classes. Their best bet is a server locked at 50 or 70 where players can opt-in to get PVP flagged for a duration of time or hot zones.

    But they clearly do not have the resources. So why would anyone have confidence that they'd be able to throw together a server done with the smallest fraction of the resources and interest it had 10 years ago? It'll be a disastrous cash grab intended for the 50 players that might actually spend a large amount of time over there.

    Anyway, good luck on that. I'm not interested, resources taken away from things I value, but carry on!
  5. Kazooooooooooo Active Member

    [quote="splatterpunk28, post: 6513448, member: 928"
    So while I'd agree with your assessment that it needs to be fundamentally a PvE server that is PvP enabled, the rules of PvP engagement are complicated if you want some type of coded "fairness". They are not going to do a free-for all PVP server where a level 100 can kill a level 5, so all of those rules are going to take time and effort. Not to mention modifying unspeakable amounts of gear, procs and balancing classes. Their best bet is a server locked at 50 or 70 where players can opt-in to get PVP flagged for a duration of time or hot zones.

    But they clearly do not have the resources. So why would anyone have confidence that they'd be able to throw together a server done with the smallest fraction of the resources and interest it had 10 years ago? It'll be a disastrous cash grab intended for the 50 players that might actually spend a large amount of time over there.

    Anyway, good luck on that. I'm not interested, resources taken away from things I value, but carry on![/quote]

    You agreed with me and then began to disagree and separate PvP and PvE with your mention of rules. If this server introduces anything more then the basic PvP rules, along with the level range per zone(4, 8, 12.) Remember when I said this is a phenomenal PvE game with PvP enabled? Well having a different set of rules for PvP because people think its unfair, in any capacity, is separation by definition.

    They don't have to modify ton's of gear as its already been modified for what 3 or 4 different TLE servers? They still have the data from Deathtoll regarding PvP balance for classes up until KoS in the very least.

    You're correct on it being a cash grab, absolutely. However, it wont be disastrous(hopefully ;p). If anything it's more than likely their best shot at catching lightning in a bottle, imo. Nagafen once had a player base that rivaled AB until the slew of changes that brought PvP to its end. Sure that was a long time ago, but every single person I know that was invested in the good old days would be making a return. When Deathtoll was launched it was fantastic the playerbase was real until the content was deemed too simple and then most people quit before DoF. We had to wait 4 months I believe for DoF after the content was cleared in 2 weeks
  6. Sooth New Member

    Hail Kazooooooooooooo!

    As flawed as PVP was on Deathtoll, it was still a lot of fun while it lasted.

    I'm concerned if this server will have such an emphasis on pay to win. There are people on FG who will pay hundreds of dollars to instantly grandmaster all their spells and get a lvl 10 familiar bonus. "Buy potency, win parses" is our server motto.

    I don't mind losing to better button pushers or people who put more time into farming gear, but I don't see people being willing to stick around if you can just break our your credit card to get an advantage over other players.

    I hope that there will be no channelers, no beastlords, no familiars, no mercs, and no pvp avoidance mounts.
    Atan likes this.
  7. Kazooooooooooo Active Member

    Howdy!

    I had a blast on Deathtoll, for me its the community that makes this game enjoyable. The race to take down contested, all while killing each other and forming little rivalries. Rivalries lead to trash talking, pvp videos, phenomenal forum posts. It's a blast all around. But you're correct, P2W could absolutely ruin it. I haven't played this game since Deathtoll so I'm a tad out of touch with the in game shop and such. Needless to say certain things could not be added without driving the server into the ground. Archeage is a great example of this. Great game but dual wielding Visa's and having such a large advantage with such minimal effort is terrible for the servers stability.

    Channelers and beastlords. This is weird for me, I'm against it for nostalgia reasons but I'm not against it if they add more to the game and are balanced. I don't want to see them rendering other classes useless due to how strong they are.

    The following should be avoided imo unless the destination for the server is the trashcan
    • Ability to pay to upgrade armor, abilities, or weapons.
    • Flying mounts/leapers/gliders/whatever absurd mounts they've introduced since. If kept in, PURELY cosmetic
    • Quick travel needs to be as limited as possible. IMO there is no need for quick travel until EoF
    • Mercs obviously
    • Don't separate PvP/PvE gear. Limited pieces might be ok but far better idea to encourage people to play the game. Not the PvP system.
    I'm sure I missed plenty, if I think of anymore I'll add them.
  8. bournhub New Member

    Looking forward too it!

    I think I recognize kazoo, you were a ranger right?
  9. Kazooooooooooo Active Member

    At one point! Normally go by Kazzo on eq2 though
  10. Satyr Well-Known Member

    I'd come back for this because I'm dumb and never learn. Byron and the B team (2)! Sad to say but original TLE shattered lands was the most fun I've ever had in a video game, even though it was utterly broken.
  11. Kazooooooooooo Active Member

    You're not dumb, you just love the game! You know the potential this game has, you've experienced it and I'm not sure if you feel the same but I have been unable to find a game to fill that void. Now just imagine a proper working TLE, with a stable community not run off by lack of difficulty or p2w aspects. Deathtoll was ****** from the start due to the content balance but the community was there on launch.

    It feels like most game companies, including DB, are uninterested in putting out a proper, well built, difficult product. They're more interested in the casual gamer who's gonna swipe them cards. But for some reason people haven't put together the fact that hardcore gamers and personalities only encourage casual gamers. Look at Fortnite, and yes I know it is a completely separate genre, but it has hardcore players constantly putting out content that encourages the casual gamer to play. Now MMO's are less driven by content and more driven by competition and progress. If players don't feel like they're challenged enough they leave. Clearing a mob that you've been stuck on is such a great feeling. Hardcore gamers encourage the casual by clearing these encounters. There should be mobs, specifically contested, that are difficult yet drop ELITE gear. BIS, avatar type ****. Items that every player should strive for but not every player should be able to attain. This is just kind of my opinion I guess but I think its been a trend for games for ages. **** Super Smash Bros. Melee has a vibrant community and with tournaments, and serious competition and it was released back in 2001. Yanno why? There's like 5 players who are referred to as "gods" who drive the scene, drive the community. In an MMO these players are players but guilds.

    Also lowkey <3 you Byron. Hope all is well.
  12. Fistpower Well-Known Member


    TSO gear is already done. They stated so several times on Discord. Dont get your hopes up.

    Farm the dungeons for shards, but dont expect any loot drops to be worth anything outside of raids and the odd collection.
  13. Satyr Well-Known Member


    Yeah a lot of nostalgia and still missing the old rivalries. God. it was 3 or 4 years ago now wasn't it?
  14. Tharrakor Well-Known Member

    I'd come back for this. I think many would if they got word of it
  15. Fistpower Well-Known Member

    If people think a PvP server would get the required attention and support by DBG, they are delusional and deserve to get their money taken by paying a sub.

    Its gonna be some dumb battle royal gimmicky server.
  16. ConcealFate Well-Known Member

    So your thinking ......Eq2 : fortnite edition? lol
  17. Fistpower Well-Known Member

    You select your class, you get everything 80 and below.

    Then you spawn in commonlands in a group of 5 other people and go ham or solo queue.

    Only way they can make it somehow balanced unless they all the sudden hired the best pvp developer in the history of MMOs. Like listen, they cant even balance PvE and people think they can make PvP somehow enjoyable?
  18. Satyr Well-Known Member

    Non PVP'ers continually talk about balance. Balance isn't an issue provided we don't have brigands in treasured that can 3 button one shot everyone on the server. That's literally the standard. While there are issues with pre-AA healers in particular, anything else is 'would be nice.'
  19. Fistpower Well-Known Member

    What? There was 17 posts a week when Death toll was running with class balance wishes and 15 with X item is OP nerf it please.

    How is it not a balancing issue?
    Cheallaigh likes this.
  20. Tharrakor Well-Known Member

    Deathtoll was a bit on the extreme side tho don't u think? Same as early stormhold. Surely DBG won't make the same extreme mistake again?
    Brigands stripped all of ur DR in one quick blow. Everything was permacamped by solo summoners who even tanked the raids. That whole thing was a stinking mess worse then any alpha state game I've ever played. It was lazy and before the majority of the completely gamebreaking crap were fixed the population had already declined and when a PvP server goes ghost ppl who stick around through the mess can't find anyone to fight.

    As a side note not targeted at the quoted post:
    One can blame gank grps and player attitude as much as one wants but the fact that Nagafen blossomed a good long time says that while it works it works. It's on DBG for messing up DT server, not the customers

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