I just had an idea and I hope I get a general agreement out of this. The general idea is that it can make both Tanking Berserkers and DPS Berserkers happy at the same time. If we get enough support for this, perhaps we can bring it to Sony along with a long list of signed petitions so that it can be seriously considered. Forgive me if this has been suggested before: New Abliity: Berserker Aura This would be a concentration buff. You click it on and click it off. Just like the Call abilities, this can ONLY be activated and deactivated out-of-combat for an important reason: so the player cannot take advantage of the two different combat modes during a fight. But what does it do? When activated: > It takes up a few concentration slots. I'd say 3 just to prevent as much concentration buff stacking as possible but still allowing such things as Vehemence. > The Berserker takes a SIGNIFICANT drop in Mitigation and/or other defensive skills. This would be a debuff to the point where we wouldn't tank any better than scouts. > The Berserker gets a SIGNIFICANT increase to STR, attack skills and/or overall damage output putting them close to being on par with scouts. Remember that scouts can't use all of their abilities from any angle, so some of them at least should still be able to out DPS us (at least against one or two targets) when they can consistantly backstab, flank or range as necessary. Other possible side effects: > When deactivated, we lose a significant chunk of our power, possibly all of it signifying a need to rest after frenzying for so long. > Maybe it's not activatable if we are equiped with a shield (only usable with duals/2handers). I'm asking a couple of things here, please sign this post if you agree and please post suggestions that you might see as needed. I can modify this post to reflect the general consesus and please modify your vote if you think it's changed to where you don't like it any more. The important part here is that Tanking Berserkers would never need to use this ability and can stay Tanks their entire career while DPS Berserkers can still have their fun with what they signed up for.
You know i was thinking something similar today. If the new combat changes mean tanks do signicantly less dps then we're gonna be in trouble for getting raid groups.. even normal groups might be more difficult. I'll add my "yes" to this, we could really use something like this. It shouldn't allow us to out dps scouts or anything silly or they'll (rightly) say "well we want a clickly 'turn me into a tank' mode", but it should perhaps allow us to come close.
I support your proposal, as I came to nearly the same conclusion in another thread with this post: http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=4&message.id=12591#M12591 On top of all this we still lack the utility skills scouts have (evac/running/sneak/track/etc); rather our utility (besides the group buffs we get now) would be our ability to change from being basically a guardian to basically a scout (for the purposes of the rest of this reply read scout as "all scout class except bards" since bards have little dps which is sacrificed for the massive utility of there songs) Additionally, repetition to make clear this point, we aren't asking to be equal in all regards to a guardian or scout in whatever situation, but that a well suited "defensive-type" berserker would be equivelent to a mediocrely equiped guardian and likewise a well armed "offensive-type" berserker would be equivelent to a mediocrely armed scout. Edit: link, spelling Message Edited by Ralluwen on 06-27-2005 10:25 AM
i like the whole idea except for one thing.... The Aura can only be used with 2Hand Weapons...... i was disappointed when berserkers werent a 2H only class like in eq1...
I like the idea. I imagine it would please both the DPS orientated zerkers and the tank orientated zerkers :smileyhappy:
If they do it right it just might.. a bit like the necro's/conjurer's in Moorguard's post.. with tanking pet they are in group 3 , with dmg pet in group 2.. Could be the same for zerkers but except for a pet we'd use the aura
yeah it would be great but it would never go in. People would just be pissed that they don't have a class with dualality. I ,perosnally, would prefer to go straight to wearing light armor and only be able to use 2H weapons than lose my DPS. I do not understand why a warrior type class has no option but to only tank. People say that if you wanna lose mitigation and do DPS that you should just make a pred but thats a totally different playing style and class. I wanna scream loud and hit hard dangit. Oh well....I guess we can only just wait and see. I might just make a Brigand Ogre with a 1H sword and pretend I'm a zerker.
I just wish Concentration was used for SOMETHING. None of the skills that use concentration currently are significant enough that I actually would care about which to cast. But wait.. i always have more than enough concentration anyway!
Not a bad idea. Any way to keep the DPS (while not tanking) might save the mass exodus threatened by the Berserker world. I also agree that it should only be used with duals or 2h weapons. I don't like the idea of no power, it would **** our specials and take us out of the HO ring. But the loss of Mitigation and/or other defensive skills sounds fair. We still have no utility so its not like we would be taking away from the scout class. Sign me up :smileyhappy:
So you wouldn't feel slighted if scouts then got a concentration buff raising their hp/mitigation/defense/avoidance/aggro levels to that of a zerker? Since when should a class get a switch that goes from scout to fighter?
To be honest while your idea sounds cool, in my opinion there isnt anything "broken" with Bers atm...its a very playable class with a great deal of flexibility. I have to agree with what Gage just pointed out, that adding something like this might just start an arms race war with other classes.
With the one problem being that scouts were never described as being able to take their hits too. Berserkers have been and still are described as more a DPS class and I'm sure that anyone who was following this game since the beginning or before can tell you that fighters were suppose to be the primary melee-DPS class. Sure, the scouts had their opportunistic damage along with a large utility and such but they were not meant to be the high DPS hands down. A scout can evac, track, disarm, pathfind (group SoW), sneak, as well as debuff (far better than fighters) and with bards, insanely buff ... does that sound like a class that focuses on combat? The only real info describing fighters as pure tanks comes from the forums and is generally perpetuated by old school gamers (particularly from EQ1). What do Berserkers have that is useful outside of combat? Fighters mostly just take damage and deal damage. Warriors focus solely on taking damage and dealing damage. Guardians focus on taking damage, Berserkers focus on dealing damage. That was always the split as described by Sony and it still is on the official sites. Again you can refer to the forums as all the information you need to show otherwise but I'd like to point out Sony's own standpoint on this from the fingers of Faarwolf: "1. Forum posters represent a very small minority of players, and are not an accurate depiction of general player opinion." If they know this, then there should be (at the very least) a much larger concerted effort to inform the player base of large scale game changes. I certainly don't remember an in-game poll asking me what I think of Berserkers, DPS and so on. Maybe they go off the Test players.. that certainly isn't a majority of players either. More importantly, the only information I am aware of that indicates scouts as needed more DPS over fighters comes from these forums which as stated, represents a ver small minority of players. One thing I'd certainly like to see are NPC trainers that help players realize their potential for their respective classes. Maybe if the majority of players were a little more aware of how to play their class (ex: get behind the mob to backstab), and when their class can reach full potential (ex: warlocks need long fights to build up DPS), they wouldn't see such large deviances in design.
In early, early beta fighters did do the most damage. Scouts didn't like that, and the official stance from SOE was changed, and now fighters are tanks and scouts are melee dps. There isn't anything you guys can say to change it, but feel free to keep complaining if it makes you feel better. The fact that scouts can't tank, means fighters can't damage as well as scouts. The entire game hinges on balances such as those.
Quiet frankly I don't believe we will be impotent post patch. I have a feeling that a few skills are going to get some serious nerfage (Anarchy probably likely), but unless they change the proc'ing equation I think we'll still be able to do some very nice damage. The reason for this is because none of our skills do a truly massive amount of damage by themselves (with exception of vanquish). It's the synergies between our skills, coupled with the current proc equation that generates the majority of our damage. That being said, berserkers survived otherr supposed catastrophic nerfs (rampage nerf 1 and 2, as well as changing our procs to direct damage) and a good group of us have still annihilated other melee classes. So don't turn in your berserker helm just yet guys and gals, I'm not going to go without alittle kicking and screaming. Now for a quick tidbit on what I think a large part of the DPS disparity has to do with: I think the reason that alot of people [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] about the damage classes being so out of wack is b/c most people don't know how to play their class optimally. While I know this isn't the case in all situations (I've been praying for the poor Wizard and Necro), it's very true for classes that require positioning and switching between skills/weapons. Their are no positioning issues with a berserker and no attacks have to be launced from a range, etc. So people see berserkers as being damage monsters b/c its easy to mash combat arts and do good damage with them (face it its the truth). Let me give some examples for the difference learning to use your skills can make. I've seen a Assasin go from doing 200 - 350 dps (in raids) in a matter of weeks by simply realizing how to play his class better. I've seen 2x swashbucklers in my guild go from 125-150 dps to 225-300+ dps (in raids) in a week and a half by upgrading spells and learning to use ALL their skills. I've also seen a Wizard parse out around 225-250+ dps while another was doing 100-125 (in raids again). While I'm not so naive as to believe the classes are all balanced and don't need twinking, people shouldn't throw that crap out about how their class sucks so bad and they'll be so much better post patch.
great scenario Berserkers get changed to light armour and all dps group needs one spot leader: ok guys we need a tank random group member1: ok i know my Berserker friends on lets ask him to join rest of group: ok cool Berserker joins all say: welcome ok ur tanking berserker: sorry guys im all light armour now just dps i can't tank Berserker gets booted Berserker says: [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]? why did i get kicked leader says: sorry dude we need a tank we got DPS *points to scout and wizzy* Berseker: /sighs and logs off my point is yes i don't know about raids but i hardly see them getting rid of are heavy plate armour and making us all DPS for about 20-30 Berserkers that are not happy because there apparently going to suck in raids but please continue to keep complaining its funny to watch u act like a bunch of children oh and ethelwolf if u read this u don't have a clue what ur don't have a clue what ur talking about at all btw if any of you have rude/stupid comments for me that u can't put on the board send me a tell Darkann on kithcor server kthx
I guess I am kinda unique in that among my toons I have a Zerker, Guardian, Wizard, Paladin, Templar, Fury and Swashbuckler. I try to regularly read most of these boards. You would really be amazed how little people know about the other archtypes. People speak in broad generalities when it comes to DPS, tanking ability, etc. On average I would think that maybe 40% at best of these claims are even partially true. The other thing that always amazes me is how little is really known about the "huge" damage that scouts do. A full third of my combat arts are meant to be used from a flanking or rear position. Hence if I am soloing or am in a less than full group (read without a fighter archtype) I loss the use of these abilities (which include most of my highest damage attacks). On top of that, in most fights, a full 60% of my DPS comes from poisons. Yet SOE considers this "bought DPS" as part of my total when all other archtypes do not have to spend a single copper on their DPS. I have no issue with this as I understood this going in. What I have a issue with is then fighter types complaining that scouts do too much damage. Another thing to keep in mind is that any changes to PCs are always mirrored in NPCs in the game. After all, all their abilities/DPS come from the same lists as ours. That being said the idea of this Beserker Aura has to be one of the best I have seen come from the boards. I would hope the Devs give that some very serious consideration. That would indeed be a very nice addition to not only the combat arts of a zerker but also the feel of the class as a whole. Kudos !!! It is really nice to see someone present a well thought out idea that I feel would really add to the game. Message Edited by sharpealec on 06-28-2005 11:15 PM
I see your point here, but to be honest I wouldn't mind seeing such a thing for all classes. Also you are comparing a complete class (scouts) with 1 subclass (zerker) .. I don't think we should be put in the tier1 group with sorcs/preds but rather in tier2 while using the aura.. So that would put a pred in tier3 if he decided to tank for a group.. but he would also loose his ability to use poisons and dual wield for example.. I still think this is a great idea.. and it would be refreshing and add to the lifespan of the game.. sooner or later they WILL come up with one system or another that allows something along these lines..a year ago (even a month ago) they said there would be no AA in the game, now (after Fan faire) they say AA may be a possibility (or at least that they are thinking about it).. I don't know what will happen, but if they want EQ2 to last as long as EQlive they need to come up with something..this game has potential (lots of it) but with all the competition coming out in the next couple of months (DDO, Vanguard, .. ) they need to start turning that potential into something visible.. and frankly, nerfs and balancing alone are not going to cut it.. but that's just my opinion Somebody else has already pointed this out in another thread, but the whole archtype/class system is flawed.. it just pushes people too much in a little role box... the little diversity we had at the beginning is slowly being 'balanced' away.. and personally I don't like being forced in a box.. I like to have choices and options.. but again.. that's just me.. This is in no way a rant against you Gage. I just replied to one thing you said and kinda continued from there with different ideas Take care :edit: Didn't want to start another post, so added a few more things Message Edited by RexTenebrarum on 06-29-2005 01:30 PM Message Edited by RexTenebrarum on 06-29-2005 01:38 PM
i did read it for the comment wasn't for him other people in this post and others said they wou;ldn't mind dropping heavy armour for DPS so they'd have something to do for raids
