Producer's Letter: Expansion 17, Beta and Preorders!

Discussion in 'News and Announcements' started by dreamweaver, Oct 27, 2020.

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  1. Benito Ancient EQ2 Player: Lavastorm Server 2004.


    Pantheon and Ashes of Creation provides a ton of information but have nothing to show for it. You could wait 3-6 more years before you see a return on your investment if you get any at all.
  2. Argosunited Well-Known Member

    so sort of like EQNext.
  3. Benito Ancient EQ2 Player: Lavastorm Server 2004.


    I was never a fan of EQNext. I was in the camp that felt like it was a boondoggle. Hundreds of millions of dollars diverted from EQ1 and EQ2 to be wasted on a "pie in the sky" project.
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  4. Tanto Done, finished, gone.

    That doesn't make it a good thing. And tbh the corporations at the top of the food chain who have created this "standard" have been very clever (or evil?) to keep ahead of regulation in the way they have. I can see this changing, particularly in Europe, as disapproving eyes are cast over a market where you genuinely don't get to see what you're buying, are marketed a fraction of a products as a full product, and have little recourse for recompense if what you're sold isn't what you were led to believe you were buying, or the goalposts are moved at a later date to scalp more money from customers. The games industry seems fairly unique in that sense right now, but I don't think it's a model that'll last as regulation WILL catch up.
  5. Tanto Done, finished, gone.

    No it isn't. It's only common practice for kickstarter-style enterprises like the ones you've listed. Did anyone pay to Alpha test the latest Call of Duty? Fifa? Assassin's Creed? GTA? Even Final Fantasy eleventy nine hundred? No. It's not industry standard. The big players, the lion's share of the market do not do this.

    DPG has either a short memory or cotton wool in its ears, as after the omnishambles of BoL, and it was a mess top to bottom with zero redeeming features, (Let's not sugar coat this, it was awful, shameful, the worst expac ever for EQ2, possibly for any major MMO ever, worldwide. It was that terrible) lots of players were suggesting we get to try before we buy when it comes to the next xpac, to restore some faith. The question is literally "why should we trust you this time?". And nothing is offered up in reply.

    Personally I'll be pre-ordering and beta testing. I have a good career and enough disposable income that I don't need to worry about whether it's a good idea or not. I'll beta test it with my wife and a few guildies who feel the same, and we'll feed back what we find both to the devs and to guildies who don't feel they can join in yet. But I won't hold my punches if it's rubbish.
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  6. Benito Ancient EQ2 Player: Lavastorm Server 2004.

    To be clear EQ2's Game Updates (or "DLCs") are free. Big tech is behind DLCs and subscription movement. You can't even buy Adobe Suite or Microsoft Office (other than the student version) for a one-time payment anymore. In some ways, DLCs are just another term for expansions (tranches). For instance, Bandai Namco's Ace Combat 7 has sold extra missions but the recent DLC was free.

    Did you even search the games you've listed? I just entered "Call of Duty: Cold War Beta" and pre-orders get early access. It's the same de facto arrangement presented differently.

    https://www.callofduty.com/blog/2020/10/Black-Ops-Cold-War-Open-Beta-Everything-You-Need-to-Know

    You posit BoL is trash but you insist on ordering RoS for yourself and your wife? Ok...
  7. Tanto Done, finished, gone.

    I'm aware of that, I play EQ2. As you don't play EQ2, it may have come as a surprise to you, hence the need to emphasise, I dunno.
    I was actually talking about the industry as a whole. Look at The Sims for example. Want the whole lot? Oh that'll be $700 please. For. A. Game.

    One example of a very different setup. Everyone gets to beta test for free, it even says so in your quote. Those foaming at the mouth to beta test in the earliest tranche can pre-order to do so. It's not the same.


    If you played EQ2 you would know the process BoL has been through, that it was an absolute steaming heap on release, and for months after. That it sort of recovered, in as much as all the content did kinda function correctly. If you played EQ2 you would understand the position most of the players are in, in that BoL eroded pretty much all trust in their ability to deliver a decent xpac. We're all expecting it to be a mess, we all wanted to beta test it for free, earlier, as a gesture of good faith and to help them get it right. But we're where we always are. Only those who pay will beta test, hopefully there will be enough of us giving feedback and the feedback will be listened to (it won't). But you don't play EQ2, so you wouldn't understand any of this.

    I don't need to justify my decision to beta test to you. I know the arrangement is rotten and I'm doing it anyway. As I said before, I'm not hard up. If the xpac turns out to be trash, I won't lose any sleep for losing the money I paid to pre-order. I do though want it to work. I want it to be great, and I want to be reporting back from my beta testing experience, that players are gonna love it. I don't think it'll be as simple as that, but I really want it to be.
  8. Benito Ancient EQ2 Player: Lavastorm Server 2004.

    Free DLCS shows how generous Daybreak is compared to other companies. They could charge for Game Updates but they don't.

    Call of Duty: Cold War Free Beta ran for two days. It sounds like more of a marketing gimmick than actual testing.

    You ought to put your money where your mouth is. It sounds like you are satisfied enough with BoL so that you are buying not only 1 but 2 pre-orders. And thanks for supporting the game. The rest is bluster.
  9. Tanto Done, finished, gone.

    I'm not inclined to care what you think I should do.
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  10. Zarnafien Well-Known Member


    Benito’s only purpose is to troll and derail.

    Hamster wheel, that one.

    Why he hasn’t been perma banned says a lot.
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  11. Benito Ancient EQ2 Player: Lavastorm Server 2004.

    I am offering rational explanations for the shortcomings of this announcement to people (e.g. EQ1 received the same treatment, comparison of BoL to RoS announcement).

    If you disagree with me, you can join the players who have put me on Ignore. Click on my profile and hit Ignore.

    I looked at your post history. I asked you to ignore me on 19 October 2020. Then on November 1, you called Bhayar a troll. If Dreamweaver looks at your post history, he will see that you offer little value to discussion but repeated personal attacks (accusations of trolling or calls for forum bans).
  12. Sigrdrifa EQ2 Wiki Author

    I think people are not aware that you can click a forum user's name under their little portrait, then click "Ignore" to mute them.
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  13. Zarnafien Well-Known Member


    Thank you. I wasn’t aware. I will block the troll.
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  14. Cuelaen Well-Known Member

    I'm a bit disappointed in getting another cat race for this expansion. I get why they're being introduced, and don't get me wrong, I'm happy for those who wanted, and are excited about playing a Vah Shir, but I feel like it would have been nice to have the first new race in all these years be something unique. Also,for those who roll the new race, will there be a new starting area, or any new content added to the leveling experience, or will they just go through the same zones to rush to max level so they can play the current content?
  15. Melt Actually plays the game

    He thinks that Chaos Descending is the best expac in history, he definitely doesn't play.
    I really hope so too. I will preorder, even though I don't want to, because my guild is helping with beta testing and we've already signed up and it'd be a cowards move to back out now. I also want to know what all the classes do, because I really do have hope that they can make a difference in a good way.
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  16. Clintsat Well-Known Member

    We'll find out on Tuesday but I'd hazard the simplest explanation is that they are behind and are actively "cutting" content to make the Christmas deadline. I could be (and hope to be) completely wrong on this but we'll know soon enough.

    The next simplest solution is that they let go of their marketing leadership in their staff reductions. The announcements lately seem more like high level concepts from a production dev transformed into a post by the community manager which is then edited by a developer to remove any details. J. Chan seems to have a much firmer grip on keeping details away from the player base and if there is no marketing leader forcing the issue, the marketing materials are going to be bland.
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  17. Benito Ancient EQ2 Player: Lavastorm Server 2004.

    I’ll respectfully take issue on four counts:

    1. Be patient. More expansion information is coming out soon (November 10 or as applicable).

    2. Hype is hype. It’s possible that Jchan and the team have decided against overselling and setting unrealistic expectations. We should laud them for this approach. Previously, players would complain about overrated, bugged, or nonexistent selling points. (This criticism applies to all games).

    3. EQ2 (and EQ1) will never meet the outmoded expectations of massive expansions. The team is too small to churn out 10-20 overland zones and the accompanying content.

    4. Work limitations due to COVID-19 and 2020. Darkpaw Studio is based in San Diego, California. This is self explanatory.
  18. Clintsat Well-Known Member


    The post you quoted was providing two simple (and most likely accurate) explanations of why expac and GU release details have been so high-level and late. Your response veered pretty off-course so I'll help you.

    #1 - That's irrelevant as the post explained why they aren't providing more info.

    #2 - That is a slightly more complicated way of agreeing with my first "simple explanation"

    #3 - What does this have to do with my two explanations posted?

    #4 - Again, you are simply supporting my points with this statement. That said, there really shouldn't have been much delay with COVID as I'm doubtful much work couldn't be accomplished virtually.

    We'll know more on Tuesday.
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  19. Tkia Well-Known Member

    So your solution to avoiding complaints about debatable selling points is to simply not have any selling points? Riiiiiight.
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  20. Benito Ancient EQ2 Player: Lavastorm Server 2004.


    Your two explanations are a few of many.


    A distinction can be made. The thrust of your "first simple explanation" uses the very distinct phrase: "cutting content." Your second explanation is also very distinct: "let go of their marketing leadership...JChan [has] a much firmer grip...."

    I am implying that the content is already set (there is no cutting) and the communication merely avoids hype (no intentionality from an asssumption).


    This is the underlying problem. Some will never be satisfied with the level of content and information. There will always be a subjective standard to apply each expansion to (especially the glory days). This point pre-empts the positivist beliefs with each expansion.


    Darkpaw devs have said that there is some delay in work due to the need to collate with other departments: mainly coding and programming.
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