Problem with T8 Necro DPS

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by ARCHIVED-KBern, Apr 29, 2008.

  1. ARCHIVED-KBern Guest

    It seems necros and summoners are not being kept in line with other classes in regards to the DPS bonuses and equipment effects.
    Every other caster has their + to crit gear and + to spell dmg gear affect 100% of their offensive spells they choose to cast.
    Summoners do not.
    Our pets are an extension of the caster and our DPS. We can get all the + to crit items and + to spell dmg items we want and that does nothing for a good portion of our DPS.
    I am not a parse monkey so I do not know my pets exact % of my DPS totals but whatever it is does not receive any outside benefits at all. No matter the gear we get we cannot increase our pets damage output.
    This lack of being able to improve a good chunk of our DPS is making necros fall back on the DPS charts more so than other tiers because much of this bonus gear was not in the game before T8 in the volumes we presently have.
    Please look at this and think about allowing the casters + to spell crit and + to spell damage be converted to the pets casting also.
    Thank you.
  2. ARCHIVED-LazyPurple Guest

    Very nice post Saurakk :)

    We summoners are left with a pet doing less than optimal dps. It's a shame that we are not allowed to have our main pet receive +crit and + dmg. Most classes take 100% advantage of +crit and + dmg. Mobs having damage shields and increased wisdom only add to the frustration of trying to dps well in T8. I reviewed 10 parses from raids and I have yet to see undead tide, grave dist and imps do crit dmg. T8 pets not receiving a spell upgrade from T7 to T8 also adds to the issue.

    I have read many a post now where there is little desire to have a summoner when you can have a higher class with more dps (aside from the summoners bread and butter- hearts, shards and CoH). I am holding out hope that a dev some where will take the time to look at summoners and fix what is broken for summoners in T8.
  3. ARCHIVED-Virulence Guest

    Yep, there is a fundamental flaw in the design of pet classes atm which fails utterly to scale up with T8 gear as other mage classes are able to do.
    The new random focus type items from SOH arent particularly addressing the issue. This will definitely need to be addressed in the next expansion or by simply giving pets the caster's bonuses to spell crit/BOE/Cast/recast we can address this inequity immediately.

    But Ive learned my lesson.
    I will never play a pet class again in any MMO.
  4. ARCHIVED-LazyPurple Guest

    I love my necro. So I'm holding out hope that some where in a dark room filled with all kinds of wonders lives a person who is working to help the summoner. Other classes needed some love and fixing...now hopefully we will be getting to the top of the "to do list". I hope we don't have to wait until next xpac The Shadow of Odyssey to get some assistance. It would be cruel to have all this +crit and +dmg gear and not be able to fully enjoy it in RoK. Just as an example of the need for summoner love, I've seen Inquisitors and Furies parse over 3k easy. I would expect that if healers can have such wonderful dps boosts in RoK then a summoner shouldn't need to worry that SOE will take a look to ensure that we have not been overlooked.
  5. ARCHIVED-Jasuo Guest

    I've tried pm'ing some DEVs here, /feedbacking and /bugging in game all to no-avail...well I lie, they did use part of my mythical weapon feedback on our set pants LOL, but still no changes elsewhere...I've had high hopes we wouldn't get shafted but it keeps on happening. I don't have the malady book for testing but after testing the avatar ring and apothic robe I don't have a good feeling about it as well. Either we need to be given an AA overhaul and replace one of the subpar endline choices with one that makes the pet use the master crit/spell dmg/ cast haste and reuse or we need to be given some type of buff that does it...or just make them do it once cast.
    Also not holding my breath on those missing abilities for our tier 8 pets.
  6. ARCHIVED-Jasuo Guest

    Sciomar@Unrest wrote:
    Why is f e e d b a c k blocked?
  7. ARCHIVED-Sabutai Guest

    Sciomar@Unrest wrote:
    stop swearing man, sheesh
  8. ARCHIVED-Mewse Guest

    Because Feedback is an "F" word
  9. ARCHIVED-LazyPurple Guest

    Sabutai wrote:
    Mewse wrote: Because Feedback is an "F" word


    HAHAHA!! Potty mouth!!!

    I know how much I love reading posts on both forums by Sciomar, Sabutai, Saurakk and Oyce (and a couple others can't think of their names). I know some of you have posted considerable information on the "other" board, any chance of copying and pasting some of those concerns with the great info/data into this board over the next couple weeks? Why? Because even though the word F E E D B A C K seems to be a bad word here I still think it's the best place to get some of concerns reviewed. It's very possible this will be like DoF- we wait...and wait...and no one gives a crap but I still want to try.
    /cringe
  10. ARCHIVED-Amphere Guest

    Sciomar@Unrest wrote:
    Looks like an overly aggressive profanity filter. My guess is they are attempting to not just block the F word but any variants we come up with to circumvent the filter. Thus it probably finds F, C, and K in that word and treats it like a profanity.
  11. ARCHIVED-KBern Guest

  12. ARCHIVED-Supple Guest

    I must admit, I've been noticing this as well. I'm afraid I love my necro too much to not play her as my main. But, I have noticed that illusionists (and I guess now coercers) have become T1 DPS. Granted, they have to work for it a lot harder than sorcerers (or more specifically wizards), but with the AA change to where they don't have to be below 30% power anymore, a lot of the hard work will be abolished.
    AFAIK, Predators and Sorcerers are supposed to be T1, with Summoners, Chanters and Rogues being T2. For a long time, as I looked at my illusionist friend's numbers, I thought his class would get nerfed, but instead he's getting beefed along with the coercers, so I have to conclude that's the way the devs want it.
    My DPS isn't bad, but it's definitely not keeping up with chanters. I realize that one of my 3 pets will recieve a master4 boost, giving her approximately a 30% dps increase, if I ever manage to get my mythical. I realize if I burn a ton of AA's, I can enhance my pet, but I'm not sure that's fair to go to such an expense to give that pet only a marginal increase.
    Subsequently, I dont think that another AA line is the solution to our problems. As an alternate, the devs could assign all of the necro buffs (single target and equipment procs and the like) to the pet, but that would be overly complicated and has much room for exploitation. On the other hand, if we could do something more minor, something that only affects the pet, we could do very well. For example, the old idea of being able to equip treasured armor and a weapon and a secondary weapon or symbol to the pet. Nothing better than treasured could be equipped, which is a limitation, but it does give us a broad range of equipment options that are already in place on the broker. We don't need to equip the second symbol slot, nor charm slots, nor jewelry. That would be nice, but I want to be realistic in this request.
    • Treasured armor on the tank pet would increase would increase his survivability, which we all know is poor. We could possibly give him taunting procs. We could give him a custom tower shield.
    • The scout pet could actually survive AE's and become useful as a viable raid pet for when we are inundated with the kunarkian style single target encounters that have become so prevalent.
    • The mage could recieve proc'ing style enhancements that compliment the group buffs the caster enjoys, to say nothing of several other things that would bring the pet into alignment with its master.

    • I do believe it's fair that our pet takes equipment dmg. And besides, treasured repairs are not that costly.
    • Because we cannot equip more than treasured (and no notrade either), there's a cap to prevent exploitation.
    • I'm not averse to changing one our endline summoner AA's to "You can now equip treasured equipment on your pets"
    • Because I'm not recommending jewelry or the 2nd symbol slot, this request can be seen as more about pet survivability and small dmg enhancement, thus not overpowering and completely depending on the intellect and desire of the caster.
    • It's also worth noting that giving a select few summoners a T8 master4 pet and a T8 weapon that can further beef up the pet, is a temporary fix. The pet and the weapon will get replaced in T9, whenever that happens. Considering how long it takes to bring classes into DPS alignment, that makes me feel a little uneasy. And again, only a small percentage of summoners will get these T8 benefits. And again, this is just my mage pet, not all my pets.
    • I am, verifiably, not asking to have armor or weapon graphics appear visually on my pets when equipping this treasured. That's way way way too much trouble for the devs to deal with. This would be another gracefully accepted concession on my part for this armor enhancement option.
  13. ARCHIVED-Vallek Guest

    Supple wrote:
    I was thinking about something similiar; just give us acces to our pet's armor slots. Being able to put treasured-only armor in there is good, but leaves a lot open. Personally, and this may not be very popular, I think there should be armor quests for our pets. I don't mind doing the extra quests, and the devs would have complete control over what you can equip a pet with. It would also save them the time of going through all the treasured item combinations figuring out what would be too overpowered, and tagging them with "pet-wearable" or somesuch. Creating new gear and quests probably would be much easier, and it would save us the frustration of waiting for future expansions to provide gear with pet bonuses.
    ATM, the only items that buff our pets drop from high-end raids (Apothic Robe, Staff of Elemental Mastery). And there are a great many of us who aren't in raiding guilds. And it's unfair to expect us to go to those lengths just to fix our class.
    Maybe there could be containers, like "Phylactery of the Mage/Scout/Fighter" or something, that would have the item slots where we would equip the items. Then when a pet is summoned they take on the attributes of whatever is in the appropriate container.
    Having pets take on the bonuses of our armor sounds like a quick fix, but we have mage gear. And we have two pets that aren't mages. I dunno about you guys, but I sure don't wanna farm mage-wearable scout and fighter sets. That idea fixes the mage pet but leaves our scout and fighter pets behind.
    Just my two coppers.
  14. ARCHIVED-Vallek Guest

    Scratch that container idea. A third tab in the inventory window might be much simpler. The quested items could just have effects like "If fighter pet then X, If mage pet then Y, If scout pet then Z" etc. That way you only need one set of pet gear that covers them all.
  15. ARCHIVED-Daelim Guest

    While I like the Idea of giving pets the armor I would normally feed to my altar or a vendor I'm not really sure its necessary. I always went out and picked up the Adept III/Masters of any new pets before i dinged the next level so I'd have them right away. I have no experiance with anything less then an Adept III Pet. However my understanding was that the level of the spell cast to summon the pet (App IV, Adept I, III, master I) determined the level of gear that pet is wearing and the level of the skills that pet uses. Example, and Adept III Tank pet has all Adept III Skills and wears the pet equivelent of Legendary/treasured Gear, while and Adept I Of the same pet would have all adept I skills and be wearing Mastercrafted and an App IV might have handcrafted equivelent gear. (just geussing on the level of gear spread) I know that out of all of the Pick Up groups I've been in since I dinged 77 and got my Adept III tank pet my pet has outgeared every bruiser I've grouped with by quite a bit. The only reason I don't use him as a main tank in groups more often then I do is that his agro control isn't intelligent enough for a group. Now, at level 80 my Undead Knight has comparable stats for Avoidance/Mitigation/damage Absorbtion to the average Bruiser in a pick up group and he normally beats them by about 2500-3000 health with buffs on. I've actually had several healers /tell me that they were letting the tank die on hard mobs because my pet would grab agro quick and was easier to heal.
    I would rather they buff us up by allowing pets to make use of the bonuses from the casters armor. It won't help the tank pet much since all of my armor is +Spell Crit and +Spell Damage so It won't make me suddenly able to solo even better then I already can but it would greatly improve the mage pets DPS if she could make use of my 35% spell crit and 500ish spell damage.
  16. ARCHIVED-Vallek Guest

    Daelim wrote:
    That still doesn't help the scout pet or fighter pet at all. The issue is that our pets need some sort of bonus, not just the mage pet is lacking. If the mage pet got our stats, why use the scout pet ever again? Then the scout pet will be so underpowered people will complain about that next, and how our tank pet gets no bonus, and on and on and on...
    We need a solid fix that affects all three, not just a quick fix that affects just one.
  17. ARCHIVED-Feneant Guest

    I had not thought about this question until yesterday when I spent 35 platinum buying some tradeable legendary goods as I don't instance enough to get everything.

    I bought ~37 int and ~250 spell damage. And while my master II's first hit went up around 240 damage, the other 5 necro dps spells went up between 4-17... what the heck is up with that? I was sorely dissappointed to say the least.

    I personally would like the +spell damage to be revisited and added as a separate damage amount compared to adding it to the spells themselves. Some balancing would be required but I feel it would benefit most classes.

    Or maybe I'm wrong, what do I know anyways.
  18. ARCHIVED-cyric22 Guest

    Don't we already complain that our scout pet is useless compared to mage pet?
  19. ARCHIVED-Grimlux Guest

    The only legitimate way of solving the Pet scaling would be to add a new mechanic outside of spelldamage, spellcrit, etc. Maybe a new skill called "Stability" (just an example name) what this would do is increase the summoned pet's Hit rating, attack speed, spell hit rating, armor/mit, mellee crit, etc. This would benefit all classes that can summon a pet. Gear would be revisited to have added stability.
    An example would be for every 1 point of stability you have, your pet's (Mellee/Spell hit, Attack speed/crit, armor, and mitigation) go up 1%. This is hardly over powered and would be as hard to gain as spellcrit gear, which isnt to terribly hard. This to me is the only solution to fixing pet classes.
  20. ARCHIVED-cyric22 Guest

    Feneant wrote:
    + spell damage has a cap for each spell. + spell damage cap is calculated differently for nukes and dots. Your INT: spell damage relationship is also cap-able and even before cap there is a point of diminishing returns (ie. less bang for each INT point).
    You should have research this before you wasted money on +spell damage items that put you over your cap. In general dont' wasn't money / time collecting any +spell damage gear. Look for +spell crit gear as once you've capped your +spell damage your +crit is way more useful. In collecting +spell crit gear and putting on appropriate adornments you'll cap your +spell damage without any effort/money.
    Anyways this thread is about how neither +spell damage nor + spell crits affect the dps of our pet... leaving us behind other dps classes.
    This deserves a fix. Don't know what the best way is. It would be nice to see gear similar to the fabled epic... with + to spell damage crit of pet... but also offer spell crit to the necro for example (like the mythical).
    Though all the pets are gimped... priority would be to the mage pet imo. IMO they can take the scout pet right out of my knowledge book
    Keep posting... they will eventually fix this. they eventually took the daze off POTM for the troubs though it took forever
    Enoa
    Balorn (80 Necro. kithicor)