Potency and Ability Mod....What?

Discussion in 'Mages' started by frdmlover, Feb 13, 2013.

  1. frdmlover New Member

    Ok, I am having a very difficult tie wrapping my head around these stat additions.
    There is a whole list of stats that have been added (but INT and STA are my only options for basic build now, really?)...I can't remember the entire list but I know I have no idea what to choose Ability Mod over Potency, Weapon Spell something or tother over the other two...can omeone please break this down for "me" in plain english. Please include tiers as well if they apply, i.e. Ability Mod more at lower levels and Potency more at higher levels etc.

    Thanks you!
    Lascivice - AB
  2. Nynaeve Active Member

    potency is a percentage boost without a cap.
    ability mod increases damage (after potency applied) up to 50% only.

    say you have 2 spells, damage: 500 -/- 100,
    +50 Ability mod : damage 550 -/- 150
    +100 Ability mod: damage 600 -/- 150.

    in a nutshell anyway.
  3. Estred Well-Known Member

    Ability Modifier: The base amount you abilites are increased by based on 50% of the maximum hit.
    Potency: The Base modifier that increases maximum damage valuse.

    That is to my knowledge of how each works. For example.

    A skill hits for 1000 damage and normally has a Potency Multiplier of 1 (this appears as 0% Potency on your UI) and will hit for 1000 damage. If you get 100% Potency Modifier then the ability now hits for (Base Value + Potency) In this case 1+100 or is now 100% Stronger meaning it now hits for 2000 damage.

    Ability modifier goes in after Potency so in my given scenario your new Maximum Damage is 2000 as such you need 1000 Ability Modifier to gain the maximum benefit without wasting Ability Mod.

    If you are playing a "Skill DPS" class or a class that relies more on Skill than Auto-Attacks for damage, Potency will be much more effective than Critical Bonus. Ideal you should build Potency First on such a class and Ability Mod 3rd (after Critical Bonus).

    To put it simple.

    Casters Build for Damage
    #1: Potency
    #2 Ability Reuse
    #3: Critical Bonus
    #4: Ability Casting Speed
    #5: Ability Mod
    #6 Spell Double Attack
    * Ability Cast/Reuse come from gear primarily and will scale up as you progress ahead.

    Melee-Scout/Fighters Build.
    #1: Critical Bonus
    #2: DPS/Haste Mod (these are semi-interchangable)
    #3: Ability Reuse Speed
    #4: Potency
    #5: Flurry
    #6: Ability Mod

    Towards the end of these lists (Spell DA/Flurry/Abil Mod) these are more changable depending on what you want from your class. You will learn more as you adventure and ask other players. Raiders such as myself tend to know a lot about the game and many are willing to offer advice. I do hope some of this makes sense and helps clarify how Potency and Ability Mod work.
    Deadly Decorator and Kalderon like this.
  4. frdmlover New Member

    Thanks for the great info above...as a Wiz I guess I fail to understand Ability mod. Grasping potency is easy...spell does 100 damage, add potency spell does 110 damage. I can see where fighter classes would have an Ability mod, such as bash or backstab or parry...those to me are abilities. Wizzies however have no "ability", so it is in that context that I get lost. Even more than Ability Mod...how about Ability Reuse for Wizzies...ugh it just gets more and more non-sensicle to me.

    Lascivice - AB
  5. Estred Well-Known Member

    In Everquest 2 Ability Reuse and Ability Modifier actually apply to both Spells and Combat Arts! So both are still beneficial to you as a Caster Class, in your case Wizard.

    The Ability Mod cap is still 50% of your spells maximum damage, if you add the "max-hits" of all your spells and divide by the number of spells you have, the remaining number will be your "ideal" Ability Mod. Keep in mind though as a Caster your "Ideal" will be much higher than you can likely get without Hard Mode Raid Gear.

    Ability Reuse functions just the same. 100% Ability Reuse speed will cut the "recast" time on your Spell Descriptions down by one half. If a spell takes 30 seconds to recast and you have 100% ARS that spell will be recastable in 15 seconds. Spell Reuse Speed is a separate stat and only effects things listed as "Spells" in your Knowledge book where Ability Reuse effects them both.
  6. Mentin Member

    This writeup is about building the wizard or in general any caster that mostly depends on spells rather that melee weapon damage for dps.

    Notice that general advice on using gear item A over gear item B is hard to give, it will depend on the numerical values on the stats on the item etc. You generally always want to use the item that contributes most to your dps. You can test damage easily by using Flames of Velious, the damage from Flames has no random component so it is easy to see damage changes.

    Recommended values are for the level 95 game.

    The timers
    These control how fast you cast and how often you can recast a spell.
    Cast speed: At value 100 will let you cast a spell twice as fast as unbuffed. Will give some Spell Double attack at values past 100, but not enough to care about. You should always have this at 100 or more.
    Reuse Speed + Spell Reuse Speed: Reuse Speed applies to abilities, for spells both values are added together. You should always have the sum past 100, no point in going past 100.
    Recovery speed: Most spells have a 0.5 second global cooldown after cast(Recovery period). With 100 Recovery Speed this is reduced to half. You should have this at 100 when fully combat ready, TC and UT will give you some so 75-80 might be ok solo.

    The crit chance
    You should always have 100% critrate. Mobs have Critical Avoidance depending on what zone they are in, and some bosses debuff your critchance. Look at the mobs buffs and your debuffs to see numbers. Your target value is Critical Avoidance + Any debuffs + 100.

    Spell damage
    I am a bit reluctant to post a formula for spell damage, since the number crunchers will rip it apart quickly. So I'll say ahead that this probably is not 100% correct(There could be some sums rather than multipiers for instance), but it is close enough to serve as a basis for explaining spell damage.

    Spell damage model assuming 100% crit chance:
    (Spell base damage * Base damage modifier * Int bonus * Skill bonus * Potency + Ability modifier) * Crit bonus * Spell double attack

    Spell base damage: Get all master spells
    Base damage modifier: Very very rare. Available from Wizard aa Wisdom line(Brainstorm). Get it, cherish it.
    Int bonus: Past 1200 or so int, you will get a 10% increase in spell damage per 30% increase in int. Look at int tooltip to see the numerical value.
    Skill bonus: Past skill cap, 100 points skill is worth 2% increase in minimum spell damage, which translates to 1% overall increase. Looks at the skill that the spell uses, for wizards mostly disruption. Cap is 6.5*level.
    Potency: A straight damage modifier, the more you can get the better. No practical cap.
    Ability modifier: A straight damage modifier. Limited to 50% of the spell base damage, but for a wizard this usually has little consequence. However note that this is not affected by Potency.
    Crit bonus: A straight damage modifier, the more you can get the better. No practical cap. Wizards got 50% intrinsic Crit Bonus that does not show up in the stat window, just add 50 to stat value for calculations.
    Spell double cast: A straight damage modifier, the more you can get the better. You won't be able to get very much of this.
    Makes the spell cast twice with some limitations.

    Some tactical notes
    Study all your spells so you know exactly what they do. Some are single target, some are point blank around you, some hit an encounter, some are frontal only in some arc, some have range dependent effects.

    Except for Fiery Blast sequences and intiating combat sequences, there really is no set best casting order. Since spells have a wide variation on reuse timer, things quickly comes down to what spells are ready for use. The general rule for best dps is: Use the spell that has the highest spell damage divided by cast time, of course taking into consideration opportunities like multiple targets etc that needs AE spells.

    Always cast the next spell before the previous one is done so that it is waiting in the buffer to cast. The key to good dps is to cast the right spells as fast as possible. If you wait with pressing the key until previous spell bar has run out there will be a small pause due to human reaction lag and network lag that will cost dps.

    Gear and aa advice
    Look at the gear and aa of the wizards in the top raiding guilds. (Use u.eq2wire.com)
    While the raiding wizards do some choices that might not be appropriate for non-raiders or at lower gear levels, it mostly should be ok.

    And dont forget
    Reforging is your friend

    And absolutely not forget
    Have fun!
    This is a game, and if all this looks scaring to you you can do well in game without worrying about all these details. Getting it all right really is important only for the highend raids.
    Meirril and Kraeref like this.
  7. frdmlover New Member

    OP here....

    Thank you everyone for the great posts. Especilly to Mentin who really went the extra mile, you must be exhausted.

    Good Journey - Lascivice - AB
  8. Mystere Member

    This order is just wrong. Here is the correct order of importance:

    1. Crit chance; this is variable and depends on what mob your guild is working on atm; white adorns are very nice for this
    2. Ability casting speed and (ability+spell) reuse speed; reforge into these if not at 100% in raid or in group
    3. Potency
    4. Crit bonus
    5. Ability mod
    6. spell weapon stats

    Spell double attack is only relevant for sorcerers and summoners. Chanters' spells doubling would be a laughable waste so they usually pick some melee stat like AOE auto or something like that. Also, SDA is only available for the shoulder red and yellow slots. If you are a non-chanter mage, just make sure these 2 slots have SDA and then forget about this stat for the rest of your min/maxing. Also, if you are a chanter, 3 and 4 are reversed so that CB is more important than potency.
  9. frdmlover New Member

    Thank you Mystere for the added viewpoint !

    Lascivice - AB
  10. Kraeref Well-Known Member

    I believe Estred didn't mention Crit chance b/c it's given and obvious and depends on a zone a raid guild working and if a person really into raiding.

    Raid jewelry and weapons choice can bring crit chance to required level without additional adornments. Nothing wrong with his list. I would move things around a bit say for melee specced caster cb is important as potency . Ideally you would like to have them closer to each other in %
    Estred likes this.
  11. Mystere Member

    Don't try to justify a bad list. Are we even looking at the same one? Crit chance should certainly be mentioned to a returning player, and is most definitely number 1 on the list. He's got casting speed in 4th place, and reuse higher than casting speed! He's got SDA even mentioned, which is a total non-issue since it can only be placed into the shoulder slot and is also completely non-relevant to chanters. Also you're completely wrong about CB = pot for a melee caster. CB >> potency for a melee caster, in fact for a melee caster no slot should even have a potency adorn in it at all. Get on EQ2U, take a look at the adorns on all the raiding chanters in the top guilds, then wake up and smell the coffee, man.
  12. Kraeref Well-Known Member

    Mystere, i've got cb > pot on my melee caster. You don't have to so angry about. Though notice fot tanks in reckless they get pot increase drastically and that's how they can parse high. EV of enchanter placed on scouts increases ma and pot. So i would think twice about cb concept...

    Crit chance is given to you by jewelry and weapons if you really read my comment.

    Last thing if you as a caster specced for dps on a right prestige tree you get a conversion from pot to cb so it is crucial to get both high for raid zones if you really want to parse. Plus even a caster specced for melee their spells hit harder with high pot...

    So whatever eq2u said is not last word you have to think for yourself and try best adornments for your play style.
  13. Mystere Member

    So you didn't know that armor slots can also provide crit chance adorns?

    Also, if a chorus of chanters spec one way and you another way, then probably you are the one not getting with the program. Just sayin. You also said that "cb is important as potency", but it seems you are now backpedaling to "cb > pot". If you look at the specs for raiding chanters, their CB is typically much much higher than their potency. The only good reason for a melee chanter to have a potency adorn equipped is if their gear came with a level II potency adorn already installed and they don't want to pay 1,000 plat to remove it.

    And if you are referring to "play style" as in a style that provides more DPS versus a style that provides less DPS, then I suppose you can think whatever you like....
  14. Kraeref Well-Known Member

    Yes, i do know. I have an adorner. I don't waste adorn slots on stats that i can obtain as blue stats with jewelry and weapons. I rather adorn armor with int, ab mod, casting speed, weaponry skills than cr chance.

    With a mount, selfbuffs and jewelry and weapons i am well over 450 on cc.

    Best regards and good luck.
  15. Lantis New Member

    This has been bugging me for a while. Is there any difference (for conjurors) between the spell reuse and the ability reuse?
  16. Mermut Well-Known Member

    Spell reuse works only on spells. Ability reuse works on spells and combat arts. For spells, ability and spell reuse stack.
    Kraeref likes this.
  17. Lantis New Member

    If they stack, then it means it's pretty trivial to hit the cap for spells then. Good to know.
  18. Jofe Member

    Your original question was about pot and mod.

    Potency isnt capped and the more potency you have the more ability mod you can add. You caculate by taking the total base damage of a spell and divide by 50% and that will give you how much mod will be added to the spell. When caculating dots be sure to add up all ticks and divide by 50% , the mod will be added to the initial hit. Also be aware that adding Potency procs like Greater Overbearing Onslaught which gives 12 pot will also increase the amount of mod applied to spells while it is up.

    As far as what stats are most important depends on how you stand towards caps and what class mage you are.

    Int- after 1200 there is a 10% increase for every 30% but that damage keeps curving. Example, 30% of 1200 is 360 + 1200 = 1560 where 30% will be applied to instead of 1200.

    Potency- unlimited This stat should be on every adornment you can get it on minus SDC on shoulders

    Crit Bonus- unlimited Perfered over potency for classes who get a large portion of their dps from auto-attacks

    Ability Mod- described above. Rule of thumb with Mod is to keep adding it as long as a majority of your spells keep going up, and remember to add more when you get more potency/int.

    Casting speed - 100% Reduces cast times by 50% instead of casting 1 sec you cast .5 sec

    Ability/spell reuse- 100% combined for spells reduces recast times by 50%. Instead of 1min 30sec recast the spell will be up again in 45 sec.

    Recovery "- 100% i reccomend 68% since most bards will give 32% recovery. This stats reduces the delay inbetween spells from .5 to .25 seconds at 100%. At max you will gain 1 sec every 4 spells.

    Spell Double Cast- 100% this is available on shoulder adorns, set bonuses, AA's, and special items like the master crafted scaled cloak. This stat will max out for 5 sec when Time Warp is cast. Reccomend getting as much as you can.

    Disruption- 475 cap. 1000 more than max, "1475" equals 20% min damage increase to spells. This stat also reduces the resistability of spells. I currently reccomend at least 800 disruption solo with current content. Illy's and Coers who are melee spec may have trouble getting enough Disruption and Weapon skills since they take up the same slots. A resisted spell is a massive loss of dps.

    Hit points- some classes use spells that are based off amount of Hp the character or pet has.

    Spell Weapon Stats- I personally reforge most of these stats. But they do add a minor amount of passive dps. Pay attention to your range focus weapons Delay. The range focus weapon will trigger procs so you want this hitting as much as possible. I do beleive this maxes out at 1.8 sec delay.

    Crit Chance- Caps depending on encounter. An important stat and can also be applied to most of the adornment spots. The trouble i see with this is that people will place this stat in places where potency adorns can be placed. I reccomend that if you need more of this stat, find a stat that you are over cap on and change those adorns for crit chance to limit the impact to your character. Seems the best item for this is the cloaks casting speed adorns for crit chance has little impact since i can reforge more casting speed. I cannot reforge more potency or disruption! just saying. I do not currently have any crit chance adorns on.

    Focus- helps keep you from being interrupted. Not a stat to be adorned but I beleive will help the hit rate of the range focus.

    Remember these stats are not listed in order of importance. The order of importance is based off caps, character class, and attack style. Each individual stat needs to be weighted against possible stats for that same slot for a given situation. My post also is oriented more towards the pure casters.
    Carynn likes this.

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