Please make raids challenging, or I’m out

He is not saying you should not have difficult content. He is saying, you are saying you are loving the game at level 25 but are complaining there is no difficult content at end game, yet you are not at end game, therefore you have not been there yet and experienced it for yourself to see if you personally feel that there is no challenge or difficulty in it. How can you complain now about something you have not even gone to? You are listening to what others are saying and not everybody is of the same opinion. You should wait, get there and form your own opinion before complaining about it.

When you do get there and experience it for yourself, then if you find no difficulty then your complaint has validity, until then it is just whining based on the opinions of other people.

As a side note, threats of "Do this or else..." will get you no where.

It's not an insult. If you take it as one, that's on you. Just calling it like I see it.

Listen. I bought an snes classic. If lots of people were saying, " The bosses in Zelda are all being one shotted, it's not the same as it was before, something's wrong," then I don't have to get to endgame to see it for myself. If enough people are saying it, there's some truth to it. Come on. It's not like that many people have come up with some eq2 conspiracy. Quit knocking on people who want content to be similarly challenging to what it used to be. That's all I'm advocating for. And if you're against it, well then there's some reasoning behind it. And it's not, " I don't like to see people complain," because you didn't have to open this thread or reply to it. There's gotta be another reason that some of you are against people asking for more difficult content, because it doesn't inconvenience you in any way unless of course your aim is to have easy content. Like I said, I call it like I see it.

We call it like we see it too. Normally I would just stay quiet here, but at this point it is beyond apparent you are a below average skilled player considering every comment you have made thus far. If any of this content was challenging to you and you want it to be that way again, then you were blind already and your cup is full. Like many other have thought and few have said, are you really complaining about content you have yet to see for yourself? That is part of the bigger problem with this post in general.

Absolutely none of us are advocating that content should not be more challenging. We have been down this road either once or many times. Trivial content will be trivial.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I'll explain what I'm saying.... again.

I'm not knocking anyone. I'm not against increased difficulty. I am personally *for* increased difficulty.

However, I'm pointing out these things:
- Because of how the game is designed, the age of the code, and the number of people working on the game, changing things is very difficult and unfortunately not very likely.
- I (and possibly others) would be interested to hear *how* you think the game should be changed. In the real world, we call this 'constructive criticism'. People are usually more receptive to this than complaints. It's also more conducive to a conversation about game mechanics than just complaining about something.
- And as the poster above so kindly explained, you hurt your own argument when you make it clear that you haven't even zoned into an endgame raid zone yet, yet you're complaining about them anyway.

Yes, I get it. Your response to this will be (again) that I want the game to be easy so I can get more loot, or something. Not that I need to justify this with a response, but for the record, my guy is pretty much geared out already and most of the fun I get from the game is from playing with people I like, not the loot I get. Just making sure we're all on the same page here.

Like I said, it's not necessary to see endgame to know that there is currently a problem with endgame. Once I get there, and I see first hand the problem that is echoing throughout eq2, and then I post the same concern, you would still object to it. And it's because you want easy content. At least Tobias admitted to it. Said himself, he likes it easy and casual, content that his friends can get through so they can stroll through and have a good laugh while they easily get their endgame loot. I'm from a different camp. I had good laughs too. But I get my fun from the challenge while doing it, perfecting rotations, beating on training dummies like no tomorrow, learning strats, adjusting aa's, putting together competent groups of players, and dealing with the social challenges that come with it. It was amazing. And that's what I'm advocating for. At least I have the decency to come straight out and say why it is that I'm asking for it. Instead of fighting against something under the guise of some bs. If you want easy content because you can't handle difficult content, or because you don't want to see more skilled players with better gear than yourself, than just come straight out and say it. Be brave.

Is this not you advocating for easy content? Tobias -
"I started playing because it was the kind of game that my partner could handle. She wasn't a gamer but she was pretty good at EQ2."
"The fun for me in this game is the people I play with. Maybe I'm in the minority, but being able to play for 2-3 hours and do 2-3 raid zones, get some loot and laugh on discord is fine. Sometimes we even have a bad pull and wipe."
If you want it to be easy, that's alright, just come out and say it. But it's like this. There is room in EQ2 for both easier and challenging content. That's the way the game was originally designed. You don't have to be against difficult content when there is easy content that you and your casuals can go and run through and have your good laughs and few wipes and whatever else. But there is still a large camp of us who want a challenge, plain and simple. You don't have to be against those who want a challenge, in order to have your casual play. You just have to be willing to accept that there will be some content and some items that you may not be able to get to as a result of being more casual. And that should be fine. Like I said, when I was into raiding, my raid guild never acquired what top tier raid guilds acquired, and I was completely fine with it, because it meant there was room to improve and more challenging game play to tackle. Easy and difficult content can co-exist. So please, try and be supportive of the camp who wants a challenge.

There are 2 points there that you're missing.

One is that this game was *never* hard. I've played a lot of different games. In the world of gaming, EQ2 was never, and never will be a blip on the radar of gaming difficulty. At it's absolute hardest, it's still easy. And this is from someone who has actually participated in endgame raids when they first came out 10-15 years ago. It's just not a hard game to play. When someone like my ex-wife can be "good" at this game...? If she tried to play a first-person shooter it would be a joke. I always laugh when people talk about endgame difficulty as if pushing buttons on hotbars while your character automatically targets something is hard. It's more difficult to get 20+ people who breath through their noses on discord than to actually hit the content, and it's pretty much always been this way.

Two is that I said it's "fine". If it's hard, I'll play it. If it's easy, I'll play it. My enjoyment doesn't have to come solely from how hard it is to push buttons. I would enjoy it if it were harder, but *under the current reality that we live in* the chances of it getting harder are slim to none, so I'd rather not waste my breath complaining about it.

However, I would enjoy a discussion about game mechanics, and how exactly to make it harder. I thought maybe we would get that in this thread, but clearly you would rather cry about it than offer anything of value. I'm not sure you actually have any idea of how to make it harder and would rather the devs come up with a magical solution that will make everyone happy and no one will complain about. (Something that has never happened in the history of MMOs.)

The solutions are fairly simple.

Problem: The mitigation curve isn't working and not tuned to relative gear and levels

Solution: Fix the very basic mechanic auto attack damage is based upon.

Problem: Raid mobs are attacking for 40% the damage as heroic mobs.

Solution: Put a buff package back on raid mobs, some where around a 200% increase is needed, but may have to be evaluated on a mob by mob basis.

Fundamentally, the building blocks of the game mechanics are broken and not tuned. The solution is, if you're going to offer a TLE experience, you need to set these values correctly for the level and gear that is in place, or the play experience is going to be dog crap.

I'm not expecting a high bar, cause all the strategies are known. But there should still need to be a requirement to play your character at some minimum efficiency point to execute the content. Right now, it is quite literally faceroll easy raiding.

To whatever grouped wiped to Azara, that is just funny. I've watched bot groups of 6 'players' kill it on near cool down.

Looking at my parses, I think you're right about the AA damage. PoS Barakah did 2660 dps with Flame of the Sun and 0 melee. Average ward was 500 dmg.

If I had to play 'guess where the dev hid the quest update' with every single quest I just wouldn't do quests. It's not fun. That's partially why I found Kunark Ascending so unfun, because they removed the map RoIs.

lol what strats? Almost all the encounters are straight burns.

You are wrong. If you actually hit the appropriate level and went into end-game raid content and experienced it for yourself and then came here and voiced your concerns and what you believe needs to be fixed in a manner such as Somedude began his post with, I would not object to what you are saying.

I do not believe content should be trivial by any means and you should not be putting words in my mouth. But I am at level to have experienced end-game content so I can make a decision for myself as to whether I believe it is trivial or not. But I have to formulate what I believe the issues are and how I believe they can be solved before I post, that is what constructive feedback is for the developers to look into.

Luckily I provided facts, not opinions, in another thread recently.

The content is broken, its not hitting for remotely the damage it should. Mitigation curves are broken, its a fact. I've posted data to support it. Raid mobs are not tuned properly and are easier than heroics they just have a bigger HP pool, nothing else really. Again, facts, with supporting data provided, not opinions, not conjecture.

These are all indisputable facts, not opinions. The game is clearly broken when it comes to raid difficulty.

I saw your other thread and yes you provided data to support your position. The developers can look at your data and use it to fix the issues that you have brought attention to.

That's adorable.

I had a really involved conversation in DMs on Twitter today on my 2nd monitor while healing Courts in a 3 group raid. A few of our people were 2 boxing. We cleared everything and no one died. I was barely paying attention.

This sucks, I'm gonna go try FFXIV or something. Anything.

I’ve tanked and cleared every heroic instance at level 54. Nothing to look forward to. I don’t even want to level to 60 and try and get to raiding, because what’s the point? Get a bunch of people together for what? Some more meaningless turn and burn? Ffs. A game without challenge is no fun. Now I gotta tell my my brother that I’m quitting the game, and we both just started a couple of weeks ago.

If you want more challenge...can always play on a regular server....

I actually cackled, not only because live is fairly faceroll right now, given by the fact that the top players now; weren't top players last time I raided on live.

The only challenge on live right now is adding daybreak coin to your account, and actually spending the money.

I think the whole point is that the people just on TLE don't want to play on the regular servers. I honestly tried it but the blatant pay to win mechanics are just insane, I'm not gonna deal with stuff like that when I can play literally any other MMO and not have to. TLE is mostly free from ridiculous pay to win mtx.