Please make raids challenging, or I’m out

Discussion in 'General TLE Discussion' started by TwoDeadly, Jul 27, 2019.

  1. TwoDeadly Member

    Hello Daybreak.
    Please make content as challenging as it was originally, or it simply isn’t the same game. I come from hardcore raiding in EQ2, and I absolutely loved it. When I heard about this TLE I left the mmo that I was playing and pretty much had my mind made up that I will be in Norrath until pantheon comes out. But, if what I’m hearing is true, that endgame content is far easier than it used to be, I won’t be here for another subscription. You see, raiders are coming back because we loved what it was then. And experienced players who became very good at their class only became very good because of the challenge that the content provided. Without the challenge, it’s like asking NBA players to sign up for a season of playing against high school basketball teams. They wouldn’t do it, no matter how many trophies they would win, because it simply wouldn’t be fun anymore. The challenge is what makes a game fun. Without the challenge, there’s nothing. And don’t worry about the players who aren’t good enough to do challenging content... because there’s plenty of mediocre content for them to kick butt at. Eq2 was great because of the challenge, and because of the player customization that allowed for people to rise up to that challenge, and the feeling of greatness that came with the victory. So please, make the game as challenging as it was, or very close to it, so me and my gamer crew can thoroughly enjoy EQ2 again (I’ll stay for a long time). Because if it’s a cake walk, we walk. Thank you.
    Yours sincerely,
    A big fan of EQ2 ( the one I remember, which is why I came back for the TLE)
    p.s... you wouldn’t buy an snes classic if the games were changed from their original and made overly easy, now would you? No? Me neither.
    Soara2, dirgenoobforreal and Fangrim like this.
  2. Fangrim Active Member

    Not trying to be negative because I agree with your post but just wanted to ask was the mmo you left challenging? I'd sure like to find one that has some challenge.
  3. TwoDeadly Member

    World of faction grinding. But I really wouldn’t go there, it’s a **** show. Worst community I’ve ever witnessed in a game by far, because of the community breaking mechanics. Plus the faction grind, the complete absence of customization so that everyone plays the same, timed dungeon runs, and it really is easy until you start doing mythic heroic/mythic raiding. I hope I never have to go back there. I love eq2, I just want challenging raids. It’s hard to imagine raiding being easy in eq2. But anyways, I heard that ff14 is awesome, just a lot of fetch questing but I think you can buy a quest boost to skip all that. I love eq2 though, I’ve been having a lot of fun since I’ve been back, I just hope they fix raiding.
    Arielle Nightshade and Soara2 like this.
  4. Venser Active Member

    I think you disregarded some of the discussion you were part of today in game. DoF was never challenging, at all. KoS was never challenging either. Scripts dont begin until TSO where you actually have to pay a little more attention. 99% of content before that is just surviving an aoe and turn / burn. They can increase HP and increase outgoing damage, it wont change the fact that it would still be turn and burn content
    Arielle Nightshade, Soara2 and Xevran like this.
  5. TwoDeadly Member

    I made this post before that discussion. I hear you on the part of the fights having been mechanically the same. I didn’t know because I started playing in RoK. But from what everyone is saying, the raids in DoF used to be very challenging, regardless of the mechanics. And what I’m also hearing is that now, it is not difficult at all to clear raid zones. People two grouping, or one grouping even, and with tanks without shields and in offensive stance, and people running through them with apprentice spells or adept 1’s. It sounds ridiculous. What I was looking forward to was raid content from KoS onward, as I’m only level 25 right now. I was pumped to be back actually, I was convinced I would be here for a while. And I may be, and I may not be. Challenging raids in Eq2 were important to me, and if that’s completely out the window, well. I’ll most likely play to max level to see it for myself, but I’m right now actually watching YouTube videos about ff14 to gauge wether or not it would be for me.
    Soara2 likes this.
  6. Venser Active Member

    We had DoF for 5 months during original launch. There was nothing challenging about it when I did it back then, in the first tle server, the 2nd, and this one (pve). If you want to just have fun thru the progression its here, but there will be no challenges for a very long time.
    Soara2 likes this.
  7. TwoDeadly Member

    You make it sound like there is no current problem with raiding in Kaladim, which is hugely inconsistent with what I am hearing from lots of players, raiders in particular.
    Soara2 likes this.
  8. Venser Active Member

    It's a huge problem I never even insinuated it wasnt. There is nothing challenging about this content. Never will be and wont be until TSO. That's the bottom line.
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  9. TwoDeadly Member

    I remember RoK having challenging content. That’s where I started eq2 and I loved it. It was very competitive on my server too, there was a lot going on. I kinda started raiding in RoK a bit late too so that’s the expansion that I’m looking forward to the most. Like, if people are two grouping VP in rok, that’s gonna be bad. The whole point of mythicals in that expansion was the immense reward for having a raid force competent enough to reach that point. But if folks are achieving their mythicals without due competence, rok will be broken. I really hope that things are fixed from the current state, because I love eq2. And not just raids either, I love group content as well, I just hope that the game will continue to be challenging, as that’s what I enjoyed.
    Soara2 likes this.
  10. Venser Active Member

    You know, there were 4 other TLEs before this server. that content is not going to be a challenge at all, and it never was. it was even easy during original launch, you could basically make any raid set up and get your mythical when RoK first came out. Being here for all the TLEs, live etc... the only challenge is keeping a roster of people who want to continue on easy content. TSO is the first xpack where guilds have trouble killing mobs like Ykesha and Munzok / HM Miragul.
    Soara2 likes this.
  11. TwoDeadly Member

    Nah man. Getting 24 players who were good enough to clear VP was challenging.
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  12. Adoninilol Well-Known Member

    You mean like how it was broken for the first few weeks in several ways and was cleared in under a month? Then how it was nerfed to let people get mythicals that several top 5 guilds per server were clearing it? Yeah, super difficult am I right? I mean sure maybe for the bad guilds VP was kinda hard, but if you look at the original clears... it was cleared in December, and the expansion launched in November.

    Anyways, the game won't be hard until EoF at the earliest assuming they add avatars and buff the HP of mobs in that expansion because of how stats work now versus how they used too. Three princes might be slightly difficult assuming that your guild can't just burn the adds and start applying debuffs to the mobs very quickly.

    Tank swaps due to healer power issues isn't a thing, aoes one shotting isn't a thing anymore, it's just the way they want to design TLE. It would be very difficult to emulate the original difficulty without spending hours upon hours of changing mobs/class designs/item design's then going through the testing phase, which;
    A. Not enough people care about the difficulty to really garner the limited developer time.

    B. They're not gonna redo an entire expansion that has no real things to modify except outgoing damage and the HP of the mobs.

    If you want challenge in eq2 you're gonna have to wait until at least TSO for a challenge outside of turn/burn in a lot of case's. Nexona is nerfed, druushk is nerfed, phara dar is nerfed, silverwing is nerfed, trakanon is nerfed; not even in sense of hp/outgoing but how long you have to get shinies, click statues, etc. etc. A lot of encounters are nerfed from their original states over the years and it's going to be impossible to go back and rechange them all without spending more time than they spend on a live expansion right now which makes tons more revenue just to please the 24-50 people who give a ****. Even EoF doesn't have a whole lot of challenge because of how the vampire delevel is curable, charms don't exist really, so no more jousting/sending swarm pets then doing a tank swap. You just aoe block the stun added to those mobs. They can't go back and add those things because they can't even figure out how to make charms on pets not break encounters.

    Regarding your mythical theory, the developers would rather players be able to get mythicals than sit on the sidelines again and not get insanely powerful items. The mentality of old devs is gone, the new philosophy especially on TLE is to give a more inclusive gameplay experience under the guise of "nostalgia".
    Arielle Nightshade, Soara2 and Venser like this.
  13. TwoDeadly Member

    Umm. Ok. So there is still this problem of what used to be difficult and challenging content, which is now easy af. It’s a problem, and it should be fixed. And mythicals should be difficult to attain. It took me a long time to get my mythical. Had to go through a couple raiding guilds before I got it, and even before I got it, I thought the idea of having a badass game changing item being so challenging to attain was awesome. And yes, badass guilds May have breezes through, but assembling a badass raid force of 24 is no breeze. The game was challenging, and should continue to be. No excuses.
    Soara2 likes this.
  14. Soara2 Well-Known Member

    Keep in mind that most people here are not new or returning, so of course old stuff is going to be easy af compared to years ago, just saying. No matter what they do, they can't erase years of experience from players. It's never going to be like first release.
    Arielle Nightshade and Breanna like this.
  15. TwoDeadly Member

    But that’s not the issue. The problem isn’t that people are getting through easier than before because they are experienced, the problem is that people are getting through much easier because the encounters are not tuned and balanced with current systems so as to make them challenging. It’s on easy mode due to improper balancing and lack of attention from the devs. It’s a serious problem for eq2, because challenging content, challenging raids in particular, have always been key characteristics of the game ( though I’m sure there have been instances of exception). This part of the game is broken, and it should be fixed. Bottom line.
    Soara2 likes this.
  16. Soara2 Well-Known Member

    Well I see what you are saying, but I don't agree 100 percent. Some of these people are tle hoppers, have multiple characters, have done it multiple times, and if you think that doesn't help you get through things faster or easier, I don't know what to tell you.
  17. TwoDeadly Member

    I didn’t say that. I only said that that’s not the issue, and it isn’t. Certainly, more experienced and talented players will get through content easier, that is true, but my point remains and I have not deviated from it. And that is that this TLE server is broken in regards to challenging raid content ( and from what I am hearing, it’s not just raids either). There are imbalances in the game that have made it far less challenging, which for many of us, is a huge concern. I love eq2 and was stoked to be back. I’m only level 25 and have already been having a ball... but to hear that things are that poorly in a state of imbalance, is really discouraging. All I’m advocating for is that it is fixed to be as close to as challenging as eq2 originally was. It’s a big reason that I came back to experience the TLE. It’s hard to believe that it’s now just that far from the mark. And apparently, I’m not the only one who feels this way, as many others have similar concerns and apparently entire guilds are leaving because of it. Challenging content is important. Maybe not everyone wants challenging content, and that’s fine, stick to the easy stuff to your hearts content. But I for one, like many, want a challenge that is deserving of the reward.
    Soara2 likes this.
  18. Adoninilol Well-Known Member

    I'd say in my experience most of the people doing content with us haven't done any of it before. You could put an entire raid force of people who have never done this content before and clear it with relative ease within 1-2 pulls on 90% of TLE encounters so far.

    The only exception is a few specific mobs, but even then we were carrying 3/4 of the raid because the scripts relied on just a few key players performing a few elements to the script. I also say 90% of TLE encounters in terms of SH/FG from t5-DoV, not just the turn/burn stuff we have had on kaladim so far.

    It's just content in eq2 script wise prior to TSO/SF is so mundanely easy that it's easy to pick up and the layered difficulty was typically aoes, and tanks not dieing; just typical eq2 stuff. Which doesn't exist~
    Soara2 likes this.
  19. Xevran Well-Known Member

    I do agree with what you're saying but at the same time an average guild's first run through VP before they got myths was not that easy. I remember a ton of guilds getting gated on Druushk / Nexona.

    Below T8 though there's nothing that's really challenging as far as scripts go. I've never understood why people say this game was challenging prior to TSO.
    Soara2 likes this.
  20. TwoDeadly Member

    I started in RoK, and it really was a challenge to clear VP unless you had a really good group of 24, which in itself can be very difficult to put together when there are many guilds already established and already recruiting. I just thought the whole process was awesome. My only problem with it all was I felt that 24 people was a bit much, because as the game started dwindling it became more difficult to fill those positions with competent players. But anyways, that’s another topic and I don’t at all expect that to change. I just want raids to be as tough as before so I can be excited about it and look forward to putting a raid force together. It was really fun. I would see these players with unbelievable gear that I never had, because my guild wasn’t clearing that content... and I was totally cool with it. I wanted to earn it, like they did, and it presented a fun challenge before our guild. I want another shot at that stuff, but if it’s all dumbed down and a simple walk through, what’s even the point?
    Soara2 likes this.

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