Please Give Bards Better DPS - Faster Casting - Heres Why....

I don't have a parse to prove this, but I know when my ranger groups with my friend's dirge, the damage output that we do together is the same as if we added in another ranger or other scout. He doesn't do as much damage as I do, but his damage plus the extra damage I have for him being in the group is enough to equal 2 rangers.

Morghus wrote:

Have you played EQ2 since EoF? At least 5 of your listed effects you can find on heroic mobs already.
Oh, and try to solo as a defiler before you complain about bard solo DPS.

Bard DPS is just fine. Its not push button like some classes so we have to really work at it. I dont have a problem with that. I play my dirge like the class hes suppose to be Utility. I have no problem parsin 6-7K even with multiple Rezzes. And thats in group content or raid. Even that DPS is mediocre compaired to a few fellow Dirges I have played with.
We dont need Plate. We dont need a combat or spell art overhaul, We dont even really need fast casting.
You just need to get out there and get creative. if you feel you need to cast a little faster get the hand of the Meistro.
Since the NDA is lifted for SOF I can say get yourself a raid adorn with faster casting time. Even some of the new master crafted have line7% to casting speed.

Troubs have their issues, as do dirges, but troubs more for the most part.
The reason I think people stop playing bards well is quite simple, they are a tough class to play. Someone said it earlier you really have to be of the mind set to play one.
I started the game as a zerker, when they broke them so long ago, I switched to ranger...can you see a pattern here? When they broke rangers, I switched to necro...and then my guild needed a troub to raid with last year so I speed leveled one up in oct 08.
And I found the class for me, I love my troub, and i will never stop playing it. However, the issues that some folks have:
Troubs dont solo well. They are almost as squishy as their mage counter parts.
Troubs don't dps top end. They can dps well but your never going to be a wizard/assassin. My heighest parse todate is 6700. I average 5-6k in most raids.
Troubs rely heavily on player skill to play well...but no one notices, cause if you do badly you are just a buff bot.

Really the mentality of any bard, should be "I do this stuff for my group so they can dps better". I have a ususal group of casters, we work through our rotation, heck some of the casters even bought my masters for PotM and Aria of magic to up THEIR dps...was sorta a joke. sorta.
But really you have to have fun with a class, and I'm sorry to see that so many people dislike bards for one reason or another, but I really don't think they need a class overhaul. They have issues to be sure, especially in SF aas, but they don't need to be uber dps.

Star, keep in mind that your char is in T3/T4 TSO gear with mythical epic. Not every Troub out there has that kind of gear. Most are in T1/2 TSO gear with fabled epic.
So if you're struggling to top 6k in a parse, and only average 5-6k, imagine what the rest parse at. 2-4k on average.
Considering the other Scouts generally parse between 10 and 20+ k, depending on gear, buffs, etc., that's a HUGE difference. So yeah, I can see why some Troubs hang up their lutes. It's frustrating. Especially when some of the things Troubs have asked for now for several *years* still haven't been addressed, I can see why some betray to Dirge and/or reroll.

Aaramis is on target with my dps parse... I average 2-4k depending on my group setup for the most part.
Star, I hope you don't mind, but I looked you up on Players. We don't seem too far apart in gear and I use whetstones for added crit or dbl attack, plus Elixir of Tactics and Fish Magma for some spell dmg boost and I'm nowhere near 5-6k on the parse. I can't help but be envious... what's your secret??? Or (more likely) what am I doing wrong here? We usually roll with a group setup like this on a raid:
Troub (me)
Fury
Illi (I sometimes even get Illusory Arm!)
Warlock
Wizard
tank/healer/conjurer (depends)

Even with the Illi's IA buff and my various whetstones, elixir's and whatnot, I rarely manage more than 4k on the parse. Our dirge's generally parse around 5-7k so if I could manage 5-6k I'd be pretty happy.

With SF alot has changed with my parse, I am parsing closer to the other scouts now, troubs have alot of issues still, and yes, an assassin and brig can out parse us easily...but can they buff their group? do they have much utility? no. You can have alot of dps, or moderate dps and utility, you play a bard, if you want to be a DPS scout then play one. Troubs yes still have their issues, there are alot of things I was dissapointed with this expansion, but the thing the troubs suffer from the most...people not playing this class to it's full potential, but it also takes a certain type of player to play this class, your never going to be top, all you can do is be happy with making your group the top. thats just my 2c.

I'm actually in t3/VP gear, I only have one peice of t4 armor and a few peices of tso jewlery, and atm I had to replace most of my raid jewlery for quest gear from SF due to changes from int to agil and my rings and neck becoming casterish and pointless for me. In a group of pally, illy, temp, defiler, troub and dirge (me with IA) I was parsing 8-10k at level 88 in VD conservatory. I will need to learn the new aas and changes to the crits to try to tweak even more out...my average in groups is now around 5-6k. I haven't raided since release so I am unsure of hwo my numbers will be effected there. and yes the other scouts are parsing much higher.
For me, I struggled with DPS, until I figured out a cast order and a buff set up.

My illy sometimes gives me IA, if there are no other scouts in my group.
My raid group:
Fury
Illy
Warlock
Wiz/Warlock (somtimes brawler sometimes randomness)
Necro (now going to be a ranger)
Conj/Wiz whatever caster shows up

My cast order:
I jcap ususally the illy or tank on the pull, and pop PotM.
ususally I'll pop zanders' coral rebuff on the pull too
Then I start with my attacks. Starting with Bump-Nightstrike-dancing blade (sinister strike if possible) to get my procs going from my gear
Then I hit with my single target (red spells) shrill, tap essence, thunderous overature, then aoe spells painful lamentations, chaos anthem
Then my normal melee attacks Sandras, ceremonial
I Jcap myself when PotM gets to about 8 seconds on my maintained buff window, so when it expires I have almost full 33 seconds of jesters up for refresh, and I start all over.
I do not use a bow unless theres jousing involved. I use my ethernaught drum so I don't add the bow attacks into my order.
I hardly ever cast my debuffs other than zanders and our snare sometimes, unless it is a raid mob, or hard hitting heroic, sometimes I'll throw them up if PotM is up and nothing else is.
Buffs I normally run: Aria, Allegretto (turn it off sometimes for resists for harder named), Avoidance, Powerballad, Song of magic (turn it off for resists). I ussed to run raxxyls but due to the changes to it I don't any longer. The 3 buffs I always run though are avoidance, aria and powerballad, the others I swap out situationally.
My aas should be visable on eq2 players. And I don't use whetstones, etc...too cheep..guess I could start.
Biggest thing about dps though I've noticed, is allow your auto attack to go off...time your attacks so that it goes off, and up your Double attack as much as possible. I use Profit UI so I can get the little slider thing that shows me my auto attack.

ive seen a lot of parses in parse threads, and it seems a well geared bard gets somethin like 30 - 40% dps JUST from auto attacks.. so definitely time auto attacks, but i wouldnt mind a buff in dps. my highest on a dummy was 5.3k in tso, and i was proud of that lol.. im only in pvp gear, instance (some raid) jewelry, off hand is marrow's song. but back to the OP, i love playing bard because im NOT expected to be high dps. different outlook i guess

Thanks for the advice. I have no asperations to be a top parsing scout... just wanting to make sure I'm living up to my best potential. I would think we'd be more in line with dirge dps but maybe I'm wrong about that. My raid leader mentioned my low DPS and how he's grouped with other Troubie's that have parsed higher so I assumed I was doing something wrong. I've read many threads on casting order and timing CA's, which I do. I'm hovering consistently around 4k now with occasional 5k parses.

Barding and support is a frame of mind and you see alot of bards made power lvled to raid because people see everyone asking for a bard. barding is not for most people.
that being said bards have lower base avoidance that other scouts and ae the only class without stances that I know
also our DPS has been nerfed in the past in the first year our Lanet's Scream was 20s duration with 2500 damage at termination at tier 4 with a recast. was tricky to use and made us balenced to other scouts but they dropped that damage to a third of its old output and then reworked our avoidance making it much lower. at 86 and 199AA my highest attack is 3k.
also in BG Pallys wipe half my buffs with what i think is a melee hit cripples me in combat I cant recast in time I loose 3or 4 buffs that take me 2.61s to recast and selo which is 4.35 to recast and one of those is my"stance jael's" which is 10percent mit and 5 avoidance from a pally debuff.

My guild our Troub is continually 16-22k, which I find extremely respectable for a troub. I havent seen a dirge hit that (other than spikes).
We arent a high end raiding guild, so I am sure that is low by some standards (monks were talking about their autoattack dmg being 25k+ in monk chat yesterday), but from groups I have seen and the guild, I am impressed with troubs.

It's because bard gear has turned into a copy paste of rogue gear. The ONLY gear that really is bardy is the raid gear and definately not the T1 versions. Even then, it's a bit less bardlieness than what was obtainable in the past which is even truely more sad since most of that gear really wasn't bardly to begin with other than focus effects.
Bards when wearing dps gear can do decent dps. Being a bard is not intended to be about being dps as much as it is about being utility and making OTHER players do more dps. The reason people wanted more dps on bards is because soloing as bards is painful at best, and in order to solo, you need to be able to make the mobs dead; something bards were really not very capable of doing unless stacked with gear. Bards really are mostly "buffs or ****". IMO, bards need to have stances, or at least have a dpsing stance that takes up a few concentration slots and makes their dps much better while active. Bards on raids have turned into mostly "keep up these 4 buffs all the time, and change one based on need, maximize dps for VC, and don't die." and honestly, it's pissing me off.
I rolled a bard to buff people and bring utility that made a noticeable difference. Theres only a very rare amount of times where people are shouting "GET THAT TROUB!!!!" and thats when it's literally only people that can cast spells and can't do much of anything else. Thats becoming less and less the case however as time passes and people get more SF gear because everything we provide is getting closer and closer to being capped before our buffs are even considered.