Please do something about the massive circumvention of the game's restrictions

Discussion in 'General Feedback' started by Ingerimm, Feb 20, 2024.

  1. Chikkin Well-Known Member

    I think Ing needs to make a few alts.
    Playing only 1 character in a game where you can make minimum 3 is a choice. Let others make their own choices.
    Aggy, MikeBob2023, Finora and 2 others like this.
  2. Evilary Well-Known Member

    So tell us exactly how this hurts you? If they want to funnel 12 characters worth of alts onto 1 character. They still put in the work. Where does it hurt you? I don't worry about raiding or grouping anymore but when I did, I would make sure I got 1 character up to the best it could be then concentrate on the rest of my characters. That's the way everyone that has alternate characters that have max characters usually do. They have a main that they concentrate on, then they build up their alts. Still leaves the question, how does this hurt you? If nothing else, it helps you as they will run more instances with their multiple characters than you will with your 1.
  3. Bentenn Well-Known Member

    Wrong. I raid 4 toons, work a full time job and have kids. I do what i can on all toons and swap currency between toosn to make them all viable..

    Here's an idea.. make an alt that can get into a raid and get more coins?

    What is a problem is the sever lack of STATUS to provide alts with means to get stuff. That is the absolute problem with this expac.

    News flash as well, raid coins mean nothing at this point since another chest isn't available and won't be anytime soon. Most people will have 490 plus resolve gear before the chest is even available and wont' even need it. Then they can use them on their alts to keep them viable.

    The Veteran bonus does nothing this expac. It's been a hot topic and supposed to but out of the 8 toons I've maxxed only 2 haven't had to do everything. The other 6 had to do everything. All quests, side quests, POI's etc. Veteran bonus means nothing.

    If this was an exploit they would've changed it by now. They listened to their player base and made currency heirloom to trade between toons, unlike last expac where raid currency did not, thus you had to gain it on all to get the miracula gear. So hats off to the DEVS for listening for a change.
    Sentrasia and SolarFaire like this.
  4. Bentenn Well-Known Member

    Again you are wrong. I would be at a disadvantage as I don't always raid full time on all 4 toons, but I do on my main. It depends on times and what not. With the fact that I can make sure all 4 have weeklies, then I can make sure all 4 toons stay viable. IF they changed it, then I would need to make every single raid and wouldn't be able to commit to those "alt" raids that I do, which would hurt those raid forces. If i miss a day here and there it's no biggie, but if I now can't keep up on gear, because I can't move currency like it's intended, then now they lose me long time or have to run me through old stuff until i get enough gear, so there is absolutely a disadvantage if they do it.

    Just make an alt... it's not exploiting.. its playing max characters to build toons however I want or the playerbase wants.
    SolarFaire likes this.
  5. Riles New Member

    Hiya. Riles here, HoF. :)

    I get what you're saying, but hear me out --
    I have a grand total of 5 toons. I have friends who don't always play at the same time as myself, sometimes with weeks in between. One in particular usually ends up ahead of me because she's on at peak times and she does pick-up raids on occasion, etc.

    Of my 5 toons, Riles is my main. While I haven't even done H1s with this xpac yet because my grandma got really sick about 3 weeks after its release and she passed away at the beginning of the month, in the past I have absolutely done what you're saying. Because I don't have a lot of time, I try to get all of my alts through the initial sig line but from that point on, I try to stick with just Riles because I like her skillset the best and I'm actually good at being a fury.

    However - my son, who normally plays with his group of friends occasionally likes to play with me. But he's also a fury, So when I get the rare opportunity to bond with my 16 year old in a game that I started playing when I was 16 myself, I make sure that my tank is geared and ready to just jump into whatever it is that he wants to do that day.

    Then I have a couple friends who when we manage to get together in whatever combination, we actually enjoy RPing even though no one else does it anymore. Because honestly, that's kinda what the game was all about back before WoW ruined it. Thus, even though for the 3 of them - their toons they play are THEIR mains, the two toons I use to RP with them are, again, not.

    But again, I don't have time to do all the running and grinding on every single toon on my account. And I do take advantage sometimes of the stuff that's in the marketplace. Because I do what I need to to make sure that I can keep up with the handful of people who are important to me so that when, as parents, we miraculously have extra time at the same time or when my teenage son remembers that he has a mother who was cool enough to introduce him to Norrath in the first place, I can do so with a /camp <char name> and poof!

    So, I kinda see your point. I remember back when the PLing and the grinding and the focus on end-game started becoming a thing because WoW introduced a bunch of teenage boys into the MMORPG world and all they wanted to do was 'beat' the game, land the super rare awesome epic gear, and then cry about how there's nothing to do until the next exac. It sucks to watch it happen. It sucks knowing that I did the circuit religiously through VoV to actually only end up with ONE piece of monolithic gear because in the groups people were hitting 'need' for alts even though I was just trying to get it all on my main.

    It sucks.

    But, not everyone does it just for shiny things and to feel like they beat the game 7 times even though they only did it once. :)

    yay for all the different perspectives.

    It really doesn't matter how everyone else plays though. There aren't enough people around at any given point in time for it to cause nearly the problems as it did 10 years ago.

    But umm, can we please make DB Cash Familiars and Mercs Heirloom instead of No Trade because like, that's dumb. And I still really really want Kastara to be on my evil toon and not on my sweet cutesy one. ;___;
    Rattophaxe and SolarFaire like this.
  6. Ingerimm Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately, you are completely wrong here. And unfortunately this is often used as one of the flimsy justifications for exploiting loopholes in the game. If you don't take advantage of everything I've mentioned, as you yourself say, then it doesn't affect you at all.

    On the one hand, in an MMORPG you play a character and this character deserves the achievements and rewards in the game and not the player in front of the PC and behind the character.

    Thus, achievements acquired by the character in game are solely the character's resources and not those of other characters.

    Furthermore, no one forces you to play multiple characters, you do so of your own free will. If you can't or don't want to invest enough time, you just have to concentrate on fewer characters or just one. But it doesn't give you a justification for exploiting a loophole in the game and it's clearly exploiting a loophole if you exploit the system as I described.

    If you actually play your characters, then you don't need currencies that you pass on to other characters, then you also don't need passed-on items that come from mission rewards and quests or that are bought with the currency that another character has earned.

    A few years ago, many people took advantage of the fact that they accepted the weeklies twice when changing weekly, because the already completed weekly had been offered again a few seconds before the change. This exploit was fixed by the DEVs, to the detriment of everyone, including honest players. And people are now doing nothing different than they did with the double weekly, using multiple characters and pushing the coins and items onto one main character.

    There are certainly exceptions here, i.e. people who play their characters “for real” and don’t exploit the system, but these people don’t have to move currencies from one character to another, because their characters earn their rewards for themselves.

    It cannot be the case that players who only play a single character are disadvantaged and, so to speak, pressured by mass pressure to do the same as the people who exploit the system to gain unfair advantages just so that they can be with the people can keep up.

    There are also other links attached to the entire system. Even if people equip several characters at some point with the things that are left over at some point, they still force one character first in order to get to a higher resolve class as quickly as possible. This allows you to defeat higher opponents and pass on better loot directly or to directly purchase a higher currency purchase box with higher resolve items and thus bypass all the normal steps that would be necessary. Furthermore, once you have bought one of the purchase boxes "empty" and have all the items at the main character, you can use the smart loot to specifically control which items you can then use on the alternative characters and get exactly them from the boxes.

    The only fair solution for everyone is that each character looks for themselves and earns their own currencies, items from the currencies and items from the missions/quests.

    The only other fair solution would be for the Weeklies and their increased rewards to be abolished. As long as there is a power gaming restriction through the weekly timer for individual characters, which can be overcome with multiple characters, the system remains unfair.

    There is no “real justification” for exploiting game loopholes.
  7. Ingerimm Well-Known Member

    I let everyone make their own choice, but taking massiv unfair advantage of it, by exploiting the weekly and currency system as described, is what I would like to see stopped.
  8. Tkia Well-Known Member

    No you don't. You're currently campaigning to have those choices removed from everyone else! Just because you don't like something does not make it a 'loophole' or 'exploit'. Everything you describe is a perfectly legitimate and intended game play style. That's why the 'heirloom' tag even exists. You don't have to use it. Your choice and you're welcome to it. But kindly stop trying to dictate how everybody else should be playing the game.
  9. Bentenn Well-Known Member

    I do pass currency through alts, thus making all 4 raid ready. Again, if I miss a week or so on alts, then I fall behind. This way works as it allows me to stay current. I've done all the acheivements on all 4 toons, so yes they are played and yes i do think currency being swapped between them allows me to make it easier. YOU CHOOSE TO PLAY ONE TOON. We choose to play many. It doesn't hurt your playstyle and it helps ours. YOU FEEL it does because you don't keep up as quickly. MAKE AN ALT.

    Again, I've done all the achievements on four toons and you on one. Why can't I use those four toons how I want, currencies how I want and swapping gear how I want to? It doesn't affect you. IF anything it may help you as I come ready on four toons to do groups. You have one. Maybe it's a not needed toon, who knows, but don't debunk the system because it doesn't meet what YOU feel is standards.

    You can't use smart loot lol, it doesn't give you what you want. IF you've gotten an empty box, it starts over random. IF you've emptied the box yourself then I'm not sure what you're complaining about as you've maxxed your toon anyway lol.
    SolarFaire likes this.
  10. Bentenn Well-Known Member

    But you're not, because my choice is to make lots of alts, raid 4, and move currency and gear among them to make them all playable and ready to go. You only play one toon and think that it's unfair that I move currency to better my toons, my main first of course and then down the list. That's my game play vs your gameplay. Nothing is exploited. The issue is, that you can't do that, because a) you choose not to, or b) you simply can't. Whatever reason it is, pretty much all of us don't care, because we do play alts and enjoy the game the way it is and this should do nothing to your game play. Nothing at all.
  11. Ingerimm Well-Known Member

    In doing so, you are admitting that you have exploited the system and gained unfair advantages over a players who only plays one character.

    In the end, it's up to the developers anyway how they see it and not how we players see it. Normally the DEVs stand for fairness, so that every player has an equal chance to keep up with the progress. Because an MMORPG largely consists of competition in progress.

    The developers have enough options to understand the system being exploited as I described.

    In the end it is the case that no one or only very few people have had the “resolve” level as they would now and could easily tackle T4 encounters or even T5 encounters, at this time. This is purely a calculation example. It would not be possible to have this now for the masses without the described exploitation of the weekly and currency system.

    What this results in is that players with less resolve are excluded from raids and other content, such as players who only play one character and don't want to exploit the system like most others do. This means that they progress much more slowly in comparison. There is no honest way to keep up with others there.

    The same applies of course not only to the raid coins from the weeklies, but also to the "minted masquerade tokens" and the "framgents of time" from the chrono dungeons.

    Furthermore, please don't tell me how I have to play the game or how many characters I have to play the game with, just as I don't tell you this. Everyone can decide for themselves and that was never my concern.

    My only concern is that every player is treated equally, regardless of how they play. And that's because you can't exploit the system or the gaps in the system in any way!
  12. Drona Well-Known Member

    Just because you think something is an exploit does not make it an exploit. Using alts to progress faster is not exploit. You can debate if its good or bad for the game but thats different matter. Using multiple alts to gain currency and progressing faster is not an exploit. Its working as intended. Or do you think that the dev are so stupid that they made these currencies heirloom by mistake AND left in that way for years?
    SolarFaire, MikeBob2023, Dude and 2 others like this.
  13. Cyna New Member

    Aren't you just a bundle of sunshine:rolleyes:
    MikeBob2023 and Dude like this.
  14. Ingerimm Well-Known Member

    And this is exactly where you are wrong, because it is not intended. Just because many people use it that way doesn't mean it's intended that way.

    Alternate characters were never intended to speed things up for the main character, or anything else and get around powergaming restrictions like weekly timers.

    Because if they wanted to do this, they would simply do away with the weekly timer and let everyone do the missions as often as they like and time allows, regardless of how many characters someone has.

    Logic alone dictates that it is a question of exploiting a loophole in the game.
  15. Ingerimm Well-Known Member

    Making mistakes and overlooking things is human. Everyone who works makes mistakes to some extent. The effects are much greater in this addon, as the effort for the weeklies (raid) has become significantly lower and thus the quantity and quality of the exploits increases.

    Furthermore, the developers in particular often believe in the honesty and honorableness of the players. Unfortunately, experience shows us that most players use every opportunity to gain unfair advantages.

    There are only a few players who do not do the same and even fewer who oppose the exploitation and trivialization of gaps in the game, often out of fear of reprisals from the other players who take advantage of them. It's actually a shame how far we've come now.

    In this thread of mine alone, I see at least one player who has an EQ2 lifetime ban and is still allowed to hang around here with a new account and express his negative opinions. I don't think this player has changed, he's just gotten smarter about not getting caught.

    All of this and always finding a reason for exploiting gaps in the game destroys the game more and more.

    What is important for a game that can last forever is fairness for every type of play, that all players and characters in the game must be treated equally and thus provide a basis for an appropriate set of rules for dealing with game situations and challenges.

    If everyone makes their own rules just because it suits them better, it just doesn't work.
  16. Tkia Well-Known Member

    Okay, kindly explain the intended purpose of the 'heirloom' tag if not for passing items between characters on the same account?

    I refuse to believe anyone could actually be this obtuse. You're just trolling, aren't you?
  17. Sedient Active Member

    Trying to remember where I hear this mentality a lot lately.. it's escaping me....

    I'm not sure why you're trying to die on this sword. 1. You can choose to play alts yourself. Roll a troub, it would help the game. 2. It's no one's fault if you don't have the time or interest in playing other toons. 3. Your assertion that heirloom tags on currency is an exploit defies reality since it was developed into the game by DBG. I'm not sure why you keep double'ing down on this. Heirloom currency has been in the game as far back as I can remember. Are you suggesting that the Developers are so out of it that they would leave it this long and also continue to release it year after year when they make decisions every single day regarding whether an item should be heirloom or not. Your assertion defies logic.

    I stopped playing because the game has lots of issues. This however isn't one of them. As I said before. The game needs more alt friendly policies not fewer. I still lurk in the forums hoping there is a breakthrough that fixes many of the problems that bother me. I stopped playing because it wasn't fun and too much of a time commitment to continue to be a competitive raider, which is my play style. I don't however believe that anything is unfair about it.
    SolarFaire, MikeBob2023 and Sentrasia like this.
  18. Poemaon Member

    Since just 1 Guy in the EQ2 World thinks that's an Exploit and cannot live with it, do it like Kander said earlier: If you don't like it, don't play it.
    Finora, SolarFaire, Cyna and 2 others like this.
  19. mickealangelo New Member

  20. mickealangelo New Member

    just about every time i get on forums your complaining about something because your to lazy to do the work if you spent as much time playing as you do b****ing you would get more done yourself. A lot of people play 1 toon and do fine with it me included but i am also disabled and can play all day and night if i want to and intern can run more zones for coins and loot but to change the game just to fit your stile is ignorant. And not to be a a*s but if it bothers you that much stop playing the game cause the rest of us or mostly all of us is here to have fun and enjoy the game. And it's sad to say but your becoming the Poke of the forums play the game the way you like and don't worry about what everyone else does you will have more fun it's not about being the best it's about having Fun
    Kalemaroni and MikeBob2023 like this.