So been testing plant, in raids. Works on nothing in the hole, not the adds on the first or second named. Works on trash but not the named in the Labs (did not test it on adds on Waansu). In palace does not work on the first two ring events, does works on the adds on twins but not the named, does not work on the barrior, works on the small adds at the start of Maalus but not the named, does not work on the sages, works on adds on Theer but not named. On Tox, works on the adds but not named, did not text Vuulan since I was on Tox, but most likely does not. Basically if it is small and trivial making who has agro not imporant plant will work, if it is improtant for a tank to hold agro it will not work. Atleast with the old spell could put up reinfocement and get 1 positional hate increase.
Plus non raid mobs, have been resisting it a lot too. I would not mind 1 out of 10, not being effected. Been seeing fights where eight mobs come in, hit plant and only two are on me.
This is the issue with all target locks they say thye are overpowered and then continue to give it out and make them unusable. The target lock needs to be removed and plant needs 1 position and triple the base threat maybe make it threat over time.
I dont think they were aiming plant to be a raid item tbh. Gotta expect a few abilities to be the suck for raiding and others good.
Most of us stated plant changes were wrong when they were announced. Plant should be a +1 positional with a hate over time component, dump the buggy target lock.
I honestly haven't had many issue with the new plant. I cast it and the mobs pretty much turn to me and stay. If one happens to resist it I just switch to it and get it back. I have yet to have a blanket resist on it (heroic add/trash mobs). Would it be better +1 hate position and a good taunt over time? Yea but IMO its better then it was even though it don't trigger reinforcement. But then thats me, I am just one person I will default to the community on it.
Change the ability entirely to this: Point Blank Blue AE 5m AE range +1 Hate Position 10 sec base duration +5,000 hate 5000 Physical Mitigation Reduction You know, to help guardians gain a little utility and indirect DPS.
Croba wrote: Pretty sure this hits it on the head. It was a change for the heroic level, at which you will find it way more useful.
Bruener wrote: That's the kind of quick, but wrong, conclusions we are used to get from you. New Aggresion AA line is targeting heroic/instance guardians. Plant change was not. It's a fix. The fact that some AA from the aggression line enhance Plant doesn't make it a CA usefull only for heroic guards. At Kos time, it used to be very usefull in Lyceum for example. I'm glad to be able to use it again in raid conditions, even if a lot of mobs will be immute to it.
Emlar@Storms wrote: It is a change that is much more beneficial for heroic/instance tanking. That is obvious. I am not even sure what you are trying to argue, but like a couple others all that it really looks like is you immediately go to the defensive. Its not like it is completely useless in Raids. It still works on the heroic adds ni encounters that pop and need to be burned. But Epic encounters are going to be immune. Just like they are immune to everybody elses target locks and other CC abilities. Guards are not the only ones that have abilities more beneficial at different types of play afterall.
Croba wrote: We have 3 blue ae abilities, they made 1 of them worthless in raids, that is 33% of our non-linked encounter abilities. This is the area that guardians are the weakest. So by your logic they should cripple abilities for heroic content? Since every guardian ability that works in a raid works in groups. I am not sure why but they have decided that guardians should be the best scrub tank for grouping and good at nothing else. Then people lining up and say what a great job it is. Even if you are planning on only heroic grouping with your guard never getting good gear or raiding, why do you want a class that has less potential than any other tank class. Guardians take more damage than other tanks, this has not changed. Guardians do less dps than other tanks, this has not changed. Guardians have the hardest time holding agro to multiple mob encounters, this has not changed. The guardian revamp was a complete joke.
Bruener wrote: Keep try guessing... You said "it was a change for the heroic level", now you say "That is obvious". But you have no facts to back up such a claim. Did Xelgad mention Plant change was targeting heroic content only ? Was there a patch note mentioning it ? Are Epics immune to Plant effect ? Did you even read Plant's description ? Or is this, again, another pure guess from your mighty Lordness ? Instead of taking care of things you might know about your class, you keep posting about guardian things you don't have a clue about. You have been doing this for years, and you are still surprised when one of us is telling you you're plain wrong. I'm not defensive. I'm accurate. If you can't make the difference... keep try guessing.
Emlar@Storms wrote: I know exactly what the spell does....here let me type it out for you. Plant V - Level 83 Duration 6.0 seconds, Reuse 47.8 seconds with 25% reuse -Prevents targets in Area of Effect from changing targets. -Forces targets in Area of Effect to change their selected target to caster. -Increases Threat to targets in Area of Effect by 2,255 Now AAs were also changed to increase the duration of Plant and increase the radius. This is what we call a "Target Lock". Epic mobs started becoming immune to target locks a long time ago, trust me a lot of classes have target locks. This ability becomes extremely useful in Heroic instance situations AND on non-epic raid trash (think of all those TSO mobs with heroic adds for example). That is what it is designed for. Give that ability to Crusaders and Zerkers and it is considered OP'd. Give it to Guards and they try and find a reason to complain about it.
Now that you read Plant definition, where do you see any limitation to Raid content ? I used Plant yesterday several times on Raid content in labo and palace, and guess what ? It works. Go back trolling your SK forum.
I would be happy with a +1 hate position and an amount of hate. At least it would be some use in raid Iluvar (Nektulos)
Fing@Nektulos wrote: Look at Insolence (or Gibe, as some still refer to it), the equivalent berserker ability, when combined with the mytical focus effect. I would be happy with that. Oh, I know! We could swap our new Plant for Grave Sacrament, then Bruener could come back and tell us just how overpowered he feels! Yeah.
With a position change and hate it would still not be comparable to other fighter abilities but at least it would give some use is what I'm saying
You know, one of the primary reasons why our class is downright execrable these days is because so many of you seem okay with getting a few scraps from the table of the real tanks. Why are we even considering +1 Hate Position instead of the force-target effect when SK's, berserkers, and paladins have infinitely better equivalent tools? We are supposed to be better than the other tanks in some regards, just as the other tanks are better than us in other regards. Being able to barely approach their capabilities in some regards while we remain utterly inferior in others doesn't work. And yet, here I see guardians buying into that very notion. What do you want guardians to be? The tank with the most survivability? The best single-target DPS plate tank? What? Make a decision, then push for it, and don't be humble and ask for pathically weak changes, like a single positional increase on a melee-range blue taunt. Currently, I don't see more than perhaps two guardians aside from myself who are actually willing to ask for big upgrades--you know, the kind of changes that might actually make guardians more desirable in the MT slot than paladins, berserkers, and shadowknights. Unless most of us start demanding something major, we aren't going to get it. You know what Xelgad's stance on this is? He believes we are now balanced. This directly from the man via private message to my wife, who wrote to him to complain about the sorry state of the class. And you guys are enabling his delusions!
