Except on some fights that are actually unkillable or require a very particular set up, 3 warlocks for latest ww progression kill for example.
Rageincarnate@Unrest wrote: lol you have NO clue do you? it's not the player skill that's preventing the mobs from being killed, it's the fact that in their current states, they CANT be killed by ANYBODY. tell ya what, go pull the encounters, then get back to me & lemme know if you think it's just really hard or impossible kkthx.
A specific set up is not required for Klaatuus HM. We only had 3 warlocks as that was the mage dps we had online (one was an undergeared ex main of a recruit without getting UT). Is killable with zero warlocks. Its actually a fairly easy fight once you get to grips with it. I won't go into the specifics of how we did it obviously but the adds die in plenty of time and key is to not die. The next 2 progressions mobs? Not so fun Mystikus Terrorwing. Where do I start. Has the same kind of curse as Combat madness and the Webslave one but if you cure it, it spreads to 2 others with double duration. It can also hit healers and tanks. The 15% aura thing is a 45% powerdrain every tick and is also a curse. This one you can cure but obviously it can hit 3/4/5+ people at once. You cannot keep up with the curses. This can also hit healers. So grats on having noone with any power at all. Add into this the adds that pop have a buttload of health. We managed to kill the first one before the set of 2 spawned and had no chance. Oh and the adds cast an uncurable stifle as soon as they pop. Grats anything but a cleric being able to do anything. We pulled it a grand total of 3 or 4 times before we went elsewhere Gindan Commander. This is not so bad apart from you seem forced into having 4 tanks but at the same time also need a crap ton of dps. Also unless we were missing something it is nigh on impossible to pick out which of the adds has the bomb. Somehow you have to pick an add out of 8 that is slightly (and i mean ever so slightly) bigger then the other 7 in a room that has many raised parts and we all know how wonderful mob pathing is this expansion. We will probably continue to work on it and it is possibly killable in its current state but i wouldnt put money on it.
On gindan commander em the one with the bomb has a glowy skull above his head but don't know about hm. Lol at terrowing fight though.
Don't worry though. By the time they get around to fixing the Drunder encounters, Plane of War will be done and ready for you. Of course, those encounters will be broken too.
Chronus1 wrote: There was not a single thing that anyone could spot that made one add clearly the one with the bomb. Even with several players looking, and running top quality graphics, there was nothing distinguishable between them.
I am guessing there will be some big 'adjustments' made to HM other and EM/HM Drunder the week the feature pack is launched. Call them nerfs/adjustments, whatever you like but the artificial roadblock will be lifted... Reason: 1. Soften up those that are unhappy with AoD 2. SWToR soon to launch 3. XMAS 4. Only 3 months till next GU when no-one will be interested in old hat stuff.
Mystikus + Gindan are two perfect example where you clearly can see that they are entirely untested/unbalanced - never seen an expansion where content was so out of whack on release - sloppy work no matter where you look ~
I know that on the Gindan Em fight, the bomb used to only show up at like 15 or 20 percent, and before that there was no clue. Also the one with the bomb was EVER SO BARELY bigger than the rest. I believe the way the fight was envisioned to work is that you burn all the adds down as fast as possible, and that the tank you have holding the mob you don't kill, rescues the one holding the mob when it shows above their head at 15 percent, and pulls it out of the group, and it is killed off to the side by the tank and healer holding the no kill mob. I will say this, I think the design is horrible and completely unreasonable, but it may be possible with some crazy amount of practice.
Novusod wrote: Endgame difficulty (and uncertainty) should resemble a hyperbolic curve that approaches infinity. Cutting off released content before it gets out of hand is 1 way of doing it, but not the only. an unkillable kerafyrm could be released and players could butt their heads against him and wipe over and over, but soe chooses to not implement that possibility. What I think you are saying is people are quitting because there is released content that discourages them. If that is the case, EQ2 should do something to manage perception, or fall back in line of past expectations of only making killable mobs targetable/aggroable. majority of players (99%) understand they will never kill the boss of any expac while it is current. yet they still play. having HM drunder unkillable likely effects <1% of player base on a psychological level. to casuals, the difficulty is already at infinity for first HM boss. so i definitely would agree its the better players who would quit over this issue. communicating new expectations about difficulty could be something as simple as extra dialogue with the duality in thurgadin stating he thinks its unlikely players will be able to clear challenge drunder "at this time". a kind of an authority figure over players efforts setting expectations about different targets conquerable potential, an extra dialogue bubble for each of the relevent objectives a player might be interested in, setting ceiling for what is reasonably possible. IMO, community relations dev should have control of a multitude of ingame npcs dynamic dialogue. exactly what does community relations dev do, in-game, to communicate expectations? for the health of EQ2, the time sink of leveling/grinding and transitions from each expacs, and transition from solo/heroic/raid are far more important. As for game design, releasing unkillable content is slightly better than hiding the final frontier. Hiding the final frontier means hardcore guilds get feeling of accomplishment when all released is dead, but then they dont have any purpose left while waiting for next content patch (used to be expac). in that scenario HM raiders also aren't providing feedback for content under construction. leaving uber overpowered mobs in game also leaves possibility for hardcore raiders to beat it and get ultra scarce loot. A chance at something nice. You dont get that chance with tidy endgame. but without a full clear before next content, as time to relax, would make hardcore players burn out more as well. Hiding the edges of where the game world is going is clean and simple, and it doesnt provide a wall for raiders to beat their heads against. really helps compulsive masochists out. I think the whole problem is eq2 going from "only releasing killable content" to switching to different process WITHOUT effective communication to endgame players about change and what they can expect. It seems to me this entire thread is based on the assumption that all released content should be killable and progression speed should be uniform, not slowing as you approach boss of expac. If you change your expectations you wont get upset. Noone is killing Nagafen, but noone is asking for him to get nerfed. Providing a mechanic limit that players cant overpower is intentional sometimes. So if plane of war isnt done, nerfing HM drunder would result in calls for next content release and fixes to plane of war. Yes its a neverending cycle, and the way they have it now, hardcore players are essentially unpaid game testers who get all new loot first. denied sense of satisfaction and completion, in return they get to keep their purpose in raiding, and still get all the nicest loot first. its a trade-off between fulfillment and sense of purpose. The fact of the matter is this: there will always be either progression stagnation or lack of content. If you figure this out, you can sit back and enjoy the journey, no matter if you are in Equilibrium or a t5 progression guild. content release dynamics are changing, besides any current issue with HM drunder. no longer lump sum yearly release. I totally understand a perfectionist feeling letdown when there is released content yet unconquered. That will be serious issue and source of frustration if they cant change their paradigm. one of the most basic principles of game design is human perception about likelihood of reward. Humans are most motivated when they feel they have 50% chance of success(equal chance of winning and losing), which fluctuates up or down depending on how bad they want it. Leaving unpolished edges of game available for all to see can backfire. perception of low possibility of obtaining a reward they want VERY badly (and expect opportunity to win yet really cant obtain) simultaneously makes them highly motivated and unfulfilled. Still, how many guilds have cleared SF wing 3? there is some realization in most guilds and players that they will never clear eq2's endgame. players need desirable, realistically achievable rewards. based on toon demographics, i would say eq2 is doing a great job with that in almost every area, even adapting leveling process to reflect playerbase's wishes. the effort vs reward of leveling is more in line with players attitudes about its value and time required. im pretty sure blackhawks isnt suffering player loss due to HM drunder, even tho they have 0% chance of clearing it this weekend. The first week DoV came out, the masters dropping from ISK was crazy, like 5-10 exquisite chests from zone trash each run, but some of the boss fights were broken. Difficulty vs 'novelty and reward' made it fun for me. If, as a harcore raider, you dont like pouring over ACT, thinking thru creative ways to down (possibly bugged) bosses, and wiping with 23 other players searching for answers (or bugs), you will only be satisfied when you clear latest content, and feeling incomplete while you journey to clear content. Missing fun of the journey, and putting yourself into a psychological tizzy when unwinable content is released. demanding perfection of the bleeding edge of released content will likely slow the release of future content, instead of working together with devs to create finished product and mold direction of game. Only solution for stifled raiders is change in expectations (to temper desire to clear content), or soe just not release unkillable mobs. I would think that releasing "impossible broken content" results in faster polish and functionality than doing all testing in-house. But currently that setup is making HM raiders upset. umad? atleast HM raiders who /feedback have direct impact on direction of bleeding edge game mechanics. you could always ask for a 10 second recast timer on curse cure! whine wisely and strategically. 1 armor per boss slows down progression, but gives devs breathing room to work on Freeport Reborn before finishing plane of war. ppl getting upset about 1 armor/boss still have expectation to clear content on specific timetable. i highly doubt they are using same timetable as smokejumper. wtb better communication of expectations, especially thru in-game mechanisms. soe COULD make all content killable by all guilds on day 1. choosing the difficulty level is definitely an important design choice. some HM raiders just arent on board with soe's decision here. what is soe doing about that dissonance in expectations/perception? i would think thats one of the community relation devs core functions, if smokejumper has weaned himself and delegated it. this could become an on-going issue with eq2's switch to quarterly instead of yearly content releases. and that's not even taking into account issue of gear resets and level cap, which also need better communication of expectations. SF->DoV was gear reset, but DoV->AoD is not. if cap is never raised again, each expac needs a niche where their gear is king. my SF resist jewelry is garbage now, but was a necessity at one time. gear resets and level cap is ambiguous and wandering aimlessly. next time there is a true gear reset, if cap stays 90, will make DoV entirely irrelevent. if not, its not a reset just a progression, and that means ppl will get left behind more and more each release since they wont clear dov. Implementing unkillable mobs like Nagafen (or kerafyrm) makes lore much more relevent as well. The world is more wide open, and you dont have a golden path from isle of refuge to current expacs boss. if you want, you can go take pulls on nagafen, if thats where you think lore points you. i bet there has been more effort on HM drunder than nagafen in the last month, and thats because community is being led along like sheep. sheep who expect uniform progression, and press releases telling them who next target should be. bleeding edge should only look like golden path when viewed later in hindsight. noone is trying to drain kerafyrm, noone is even thinking about that outlet, even if its impossible, just as drunder HM is currently impossible. SOE should make more impossible outlets, and ppl will stop expecting to clear everything that is released. and maybe even think for themselves and enjoy greater immersion. honestly im a little surprised cynics overwhelmingly go with 'sony is stupid' and not 'sony is using our raid force as unpaid labor for game development & testing', just look what they are doing with the home decorators via Dungeon Maker. personally I love the idea of player driven content. c'mon they've already used player created assets for in game house paintings. next on list is in-game voting on marketplace items. community driven decision making. now we get into feasibility of a democracy, and whether voters can be trusted to choose whats in their best interest.
what really gets me is... say plane of war gets opened up, and vallon HM becomes killable.... that means, theres no more point in kill HM statue. its strange how this expansion is going like that, ignoring content, cause it becomes obsolete with nerfs, content thats barely killable as is. the plain fact is, drunder HM should never have been released as early as it was. it created this huge time sink, where gearing people for it, literally takes weeks, and just losing 2-3 people with the usual game turn over, sets guilds back by weeks on progression cause its incredibly foolish to even try drunder HM without incredibly high stats that only comes from gear thats takes a ton of work to get. by the time PoW is doable - will it even matter? whos gonna see it? 2 guilds? what then? will the next expansions content just be there unkillable cause either no ones left to do it, or its so hard no one could possibly do it? HM Drunder is about the worst thing thats happened to this game, as far as I've ever seen.
It's not just this expansion's content that has been rendered moot by the rapidly spiraling escalation in gear. Remember Sentinel's Fate? All that content is L90 as well, but how many people even set foot in Odus now? Back in EoF, the first "non cap increase" expansion, you would still run some of the KoS content (same level cap). Back in TSO, you would still run some of the higher end RoK stuff. Today, no one even considers SF worth talking about, let alone doing. The worst part is that there is no way to fix the problem because they've already committed to no level cap increase until 2013 at the earliest. Therefore, there is no clean and easy way to do a gear reset to get the process back under control. Of course, they could always do a re-itemization. The last one went so well after all . . .
Piinks-Naveh wrote: DoV raid content has been as pointless and obnoxious as your post. You have entirely missed the point. This is not a single unkillable mob but entire zones blocked off because the raiders could not kill through the access. This has gone on for months and months that we are now staring down more raid content being added on top of the stuff that can't even see yet because other stuff has not been killed yet. The is bad, very very bad. There is a planned gear reset to push the players over the hump. The new research assistant crafted gear is better than the HM raid gear. This worse that when the PQ's came out and instantly obsoleeted all SF raid gear. It is just a giant slap to the face and kick to the balls what is going on here. The cynic in me tells me the game is being Red Listed if not being deliberately sabotaged. Yeah I am mad.
Novusod wrote: I'm not sure that I understand that. Do you mean that buying AoD gives you access to PoW by default just by researching and making new gear? Please clarify your statement and provide some background?
I believe he's saying that the research apprentices for tradeskilling (feature of AoD) have armor that you can research, and then make, which is superior to HM Drunder armor.
One of the research weapons had crazy multi attack on it making it one of the best weapons in the game. Most raiders out there will be seeing some upgrades here unless you at the absolute bleeding edge of the raid content right now. You need to have a level 90 tradeskiller to get the best gear so If you have not done so yet you best be power leveling some tradeskillers.
Gaealiege@Butcherblock wrote: That's what I thought was being said. So you have to buy AoD to progress in DoV if there is no nerf or fixing of the broken scripts? I thought that's what SoE said definitely would not happen. Can we have some red name clarification on this please?
Rasttan@Unrest wrote: If an MMO is well made it should continually have content that challenges players. 'Adventure always over the next rise', so to speak...
Just thought I'd give the original poster a heads up that there's only 3 mobs left to kill in HM Drunder. But, based on current scripts and previous experience, coupled with SOE's glacial speed in fixing scripts, I don't think you'll be in the Plane of War during this months subscription
Just to let the Original Poster (if he hasn't joined everyone else in rage quitting) that PoW is open on AB and Splitpaw. Except when you try and zone in on Splitpaw it kicks you out .... probably because of yet another competency failure by SOE
