People do make mistakes, why can they not be rectified?

Discussion in 'Expansions and Adventure Packs' started by ARCHIVED-ashen1973, Dec 9, 2008.

  1. ARCHIVED-ashen1973 Guest

    I have noticed this posted in several different threads, so thought I would ask the question here.

    It is possible to fail a void-shard piece craft so badly that you can lose the shards. A disconnect at an unlucky time could cause this.
    It is possible to create the wrong item, either for yourself or for another using consignment. ( I know a lot of people would jump up here and say 'you made the error,its your own fault for being stupid' etc.. etc.. but, as the title says, we are all human, we all make mistakes from time to time, and if you dont, then congratulations on being the worlds only perfect person :p )

    i have also read that the CSR's will do nothing to rectify the situation and would like to know why this is?
    I can understand if someone does this multiple times, then they should not receive any help. But on one-ff occassions, I see no reason why the CSR cannot help.
    If you accidently delete a character or item, the CSR's will restore it, they will tell you they will only do this on a limited amount of occasions, but I know of people that have had multiple characters restored. So why not restore accidently lost shards?
    Lets face it, if you do fail a craft in the first bar, its going to be because of some sort of serious crash or error. There is no-way anyone that has managed to get a crafter to the level required to scribe the void recipes is going to fail through being a bad player.
    And, if the wrong item is created, yes, the crafter should feel a little stupid, but why cant they get that item exchanged for the one they need?
    I know, from personal experience, that the CSR's do have the power to remove an item from your inventory and replace it with a different one. If they can do this in other circumstances , why not here?

    if the CSR;s do change and have a policy of fixing these problems, what are the pros and cons?
    The only cons i can see are maybe a few more minutes being spent looking into the petiton and rectifying the situation. But, just how often would this situation arrise?
    The big Pro being that players, who pay to play this game and have fun, would have a better experience, both with the game and with the CSR system.

    If the situation stays as it is, i see no Pro's
    just the cons of having players disappointed with loss of shards, informign others of their disappointment which just goes to raise the level of disappointment with the csr system.
    Dont get me wrong, I have had more positive experiences withthe CSR;s than negative ones.
    But, as we all know, when people have a good experience, they tell 1 or 2 people. When they have a bad one, they tell everyone they can.
  2. ARCHIVED-Wingrider01 Guest

  3. ARCHIVED-ashen1973 Guest

    Wingrider01 wrote:
    i did read this thread and its because of information in this thread (mainly this quote from Domino - '

    The shards and armor (where applicable) have always been returned if you made crude, worked, or shaped quality. The only time you could lose shards was if you failed to make even crude. The only reason that the shards are not returned on the "greater" armor if you don't even made crude, is that simply due to the way recipes were designed we don't have the mechanics to return more than one item in case of an utter failure -- utter failures were designed to just return the one product. In this case Customer Service should assist you.
    This is the ONLY circumstance under which we will reimburse void shards, if you fail to even make crude on a "greater" void shard armor combine (or if you did fail on any void shard armor combine prior to the hotfix). Unfortunately if you make the wrong item for the customer that is not reimbursable, since it's your responsibility and your customer's to agree on what item will be made and accept that. But, should you realise part way through the combine that you're making the wrong item, it should be quite safe to cancel at crude, worked, or shaped quality and start again.' )

    and posts in several other threads that prompted me to make this one.

    I know personally of 2 people and have read of others in these forums, that have lost shards through to crashes etc, and failing th ecombine completely and have been told by CSR's that there is nothing they can do to help.
    I would also like to know why there can be no reimbursment of shards if the wrong item is made. i can see no reason at all why someone shouldnt be helped if they have made an error, at least on a limited number of occasions.
    As i said before CSRs will replace a wrongly deleted item, they will restore a deleted character if you realise you have left items on it or just plain changed your mind.
    I even know of someone who, a few days after trading a master spell for plat, logged in to find the plat removed and the master back in his inventory. When he petitioned this he was told that the buyer had made a mistake and already had the master so had petitioned and had it returned.

    If CSR;s can do all these things why cant, as a matter of customer service, they remove an unwanted armour piece and replace it with the shards or the correct item?

    they do have log tools available to show exaclty when items where created, if that item has been used etc.. so even putting a time limit on this would just show that the CSR's are willing to take steps to improve players gaming experience.
  4. ARCHIVED-zaneluke Guest

    For a crash? Yes 100% i think you should get your shard back.
    For making the wrong item? No. I make mistakes too. Everyone does. You learn from them.
    I think it would only take someone making one wrong piece of armor to learn a lesson.
  5. ARCHIVED-ashen1973 Guest

    zaneluke wrote:
    Why should anyone need to be 'taught a lesson', do we not all play this game to have fun,not to learn lessons??
    Have you never made a mistake and been grateful when someone else helped you to put that mistake right and did that experience not help you to avoid similar experiences in the future?

    Anyway, getting sidetracked here.
    My main point is that the CSR;s have shown they will change items etc.. in similar circumstances, so I would just like to know why the void armour is being treated differently.

    p.s why was this thread moved to here? This is specifically about a tradeskill related mechanic and how problems with that mechanic is being dealt with
  6. ARCHIVED-Ohiv Guest

    Kalyyn@Splitpaw wrote:
    Why do folks need to be taught a lesson for not being attentive?? Good question, although I would say the lesson should have been learned in Mid school, if you are just now learning it well you will be a better person in the future. Seriously the only issue I can see with this thread is if someone crashs forcing a failure of making the product. IF you can't get the right item, and if the customer is too dense to see what is being created and confirm it's the right item, really there is nothing anyone can do for the situation. Live and learn, so that you don't make the same mistake again. I know ME personally I spend a bit of time confirming what it is the customer wants, long before I open up a commision window. When it get's the the finial commision I am still asking them are you sure this is what you want. The making of the product is quick only takes a few seconds, but ensuring that the customer is getting what they want is more valuable to me then anything else.
  7. ARCHIVED-Wingrider01 Guest

    Sorry, absolutely no difference here between making the wrong item for a player or purchasing the wrong item at a location that states - no Refunds or exchanges, no exceptions. You don't get your items back in either case if you make a mistake. Old adage in carpentry - measure twice, cut once, can apply here, verify the product, verify it again, then make it. applies here also
  8. ARCHIVED-ashen1973 Guest

    Well, im glad that i am surrounded by so many players that never seem to make any mistakes or need help when they have made one.
    Have you ever made a mistake and had someone else to help you rectify it? (answer no to this question and i will call you a liar or a reclusive hermit :p)
    if so, where you glad of the help and did you still learn a leson from the situation?

    My view is, this game is supposed to be fun, not a learning experience, not a lesson in life skills.
    I quite agree, when it come sto real life stuff, the measure twice, cut once rule works for most situations.
    but THIS IS A GAME!!
    As i pointed out, the CSR's have, in very similar circumsatnces, rectified mistakes for others, I just want to know why there seems to be a hard-policy not to help people in these situations.
    Surely the job of a CSR (being CUSTOMER services) is to try their very best to keep customers happy with the product supplied.
    And to keep a customer happy they need to do everything they possible can to rectify any problem the customer may have.
    I have never made the wrong item for a customer yet, either in real-life, in this game or in other mmo's where i have crafted. That is not to say i dont make other mistakes, I do. And it is not to say I never will make a mistake.
    i could envision it being quite possible, that I log in after a long days work for some relaxing gaming, feeling tired I prepare to log and say goodnight to my guild, someone asks me to make them an item before i log, I agree (not liking to say no to my guild friends) and start the craft, even though I am half asleep. Due to tiredness i make the wrong item.
    Who is to blame here? Myself mainly, my friend to a lesser extent. No-one else, not game mechanics, it is completely our fault. Upon realising the mistake i will feel terrible for makign it and my friend will be down X shards with the wrong piece of equipment.
    yes we made mistakes (the main one being to not craft etc.. when tired) but , why should we not be assisted to put the matter right??
    What is to be gained by the CSR's not helping in this situation?
    Nothing at all to be gained.
    the lesson people keep insisting needs to be learned wil be learned anyway, wether the item is changed or not.
    What is to be lost in this situation?
    2 players feeling let down by themselves and each other
    2 players feeling let down by the CSR's
    2 players enjoyment of EQ2 (the game they both pay to enjoy) dropping
    2 players havign a negative story to tell of the CSR system
  9. ARCHIVED-zaneluke Guest

    Kalyyn@Splitpaw wrote
    I agree 100% so the short of it is..........................
    No lesson should be taught because it is just a game. I agree 100%
    And if you make the wrong item for someone, who cares? because it is just a game. In a game for fun, making the wrong piece of virtual armor for someone should not be a frusterating event that require the service of a CSR. It should be an OPPS! LOL i did a boo-boo.

    BUT....... if a most shard or wrong pice of armor is more than an oppsie to you, perhaps you should adhere to your "its only a game" comment.

  10. ARCHIVED-Stump4 Guest

    I make mistakes in this game every day. When I pull a mob and get killed, there is no one there to rectify the situation and kill the mobe for me. When I accidentally hit GREED instead of NEED on a piece of armor, no one is there to rectify the situation and let me re-roll. And yes, when I have accidentally made the wrong piece of armor for someone, the ONLY person to rectify the situation was ME.... by reimbursing the person I screwed up on.
    So to answer your question, NO... I don't think you should get a "do-over". You're trying to use a lame excuse about this game is "for fun" to cover up your mistake and somehow make CSRs the scapegoat. Mistakes don't get recitifed in the virtual world and the ones that do get rectified in real life aren't critical mistakes. I'm just not buying your excuse.
    Now failing because of a system crash? That's a different story.....but how do you prove that?
  11. ARCHIVED-ashen1973 Guest

    OK,lets get this staright here
    I have not made a mistake myself, I have not made the wrong piece of armour for someone.
    The point of this therad (and it probably made more sense when it was inthe TS section, before being moved here) was that devs had stated that there would be no csr help in this situation.
    The point was being discussed in a couple of different threads.

    Seeing as the CSR;s had helped people that had made mistakes, in different but very similar situations (some of which I have already listed here) I just wante dto know why this situation was being treated differently.

    I cannot see why people are so against the idea of mistakes being rctified, if it makes another persons game experience more enjoyable what is the harm? Why are you all so against this? how does it effect uyou if someone else gets help? Does it make you feel good to think that people are makign mistakes and getting punished for them.

    I love mMO's, i love the community in most and I think EQ2 has the best of all those I have dabbled in. The vast majority of people are great, are willing to help others when required and offer advice.
    There does seem to be a small minority that seem to be overly concerned with what other people have obtained, I dont know if its just a little jealousy or just a character trait that makes people feel good when thinking of others misfortunes, but it is something that crops up a lot in this, and other online forums.
    Why cant people just accept that everyone is here to have fun (and to the person that posted that, if its just fun, then a mistake shoudl be treated as an 'oh well' moment, yes you are right, but if it can be treated as an oh well moment and still rectified, where is the harm in that? it can onlyl lead to an increased fun-factor). Just because X person has received help after a mistake, or just because person Y has a better armour piece than you, does that mean your game experience is lessened?? no it does not, but, in some player sminds it seems to .
    All those that seem so anti this idea, can you please answer me one question
    If someone makes the wrong item and the CSR replaces it with the correct one, just how does that effect your gameplay?

    edit.. as you can see by my typing skills i am far from perfect :p but , when it comes to items people have put effort into earning, i am supremely careful
  12. ARCHIVED-greenmantle Guest

    Perhaps because CSR has more important things to do than reverse things for people who make mistakes. If i was stuck in the geometry of the game and had to wait 4 hours for help because CSR were busy reversing careless mistakes for people i would be pissy. I want CSR to be there to fix things i cant fix my self, missing characters/ equipment being stuck. Wasting a few shards making the wrong thing is an easy fix , go run another few instances, its some thing you can fix your self.
  13. ARCHIVED-Killerbee3000 Guest

    greenmantle wrote:
    you wait for csr to get you out if you are stuck? sorry, but thats no better than asking them to fix someones mistake, evac, coh, call of qeynos, call of maj dul, lon evac item and so on all have shorter reuse timers than the time you will wait for a csr.

    Do I never make mistakes? no, but if you craft something for someone especially if if involves void shards which you cant replace easily by just buying new ones on the broker I do expect that you double and tripple check that you are making the right item.
  14. ARCHIVED-Kirstie Guest

    Kalyyn@Splitpaw wrote:
    Hi everyone,
    There is a lot going on in this thread, and I don't want to derail it. But I do want to comment on this.
    I spoke with the developers and the CSR Supervisor recently about the issue of shards being consumed if you click cancel on a recipe.
    In the case that you click cancel on a recipe you should, as of today's patch, get the shards back like normal fuel. If you don't, or haven't in the past, I'd encourage you to /petition today and ask for a reimbursement of the shards. The CS group has let me know that they are going to return shards if you clicked cancel on a recipe.
    Making the wrong item is a different problem right now that I can sympathize with being a crafter myself, but can't help with today.
    - Kirstie
  15. ARCHIVED-Ashlian Guest

    greenmantle wrote:
    While personally, I would make very very sure that anything I crafted in a commission was precisely what the customer ordered, the OP is quite correct. I have known numerous people who have had even non class specific armor traded out by CSR's because they chose the "wrong" quest item. Not to mention, I've known people who had entire class specific armor SETS traded out by kind CSR's when they BETRAYED, a completely conscious choice. We won't even mention the raid gear given to the people who actually won it when the raid leader....oh....that would be a MISTAKE.....assigned it to someone else.
    So while I agree that you honestly should confirm exactly what is ordered, or live with the consequences, in my own personal experience there is more than enough precedent for reimbursement upon mistake. How many will there really be with something that can be as time consuming to get as void shards? Not all of us have a lot of time to run the instances, I think I've gotten 14 void shards since the expansion simply from lack of time, I will be reiterating OVER and OVER exactly what it is that I want, let me tell you. And I'm hardly arguing for CSR's to not help transfer gear accidentally assigned to the wrong person on a raid to the correct person, or any other thing a CSR is actually allowed to do to help out. That is, as the OP stated, what they're there for, and on the whole I've been very pleased with the CSR response in EQ2 to any problem I've had. Seriously, though, it's asinine to have one set of standards for reimbursement or replacement of looted or quested gear and another for mastercrafted.
  16. ARCHIVED-sgbarber Guest

    Sharakari@Unrest wrote:
    Why? It's your fault for having defective equipment or poor internet access and you are accepting the risk of buggy code when you start trade-skilling.
    Afterall, once you accept the deal you are taking on a responsibility and accountabilty hears no excuses.
    </adovate off>
  17. ARCHIVED-janmystique Guest

    Killerbee3000 wrote:
    Just to say on this point that it is possible to get stuck and not be able to unstick yourself. A few months ago I got stuck on a cloud portal between islands in Barren Sky. I couldn't use Call of Ro, CoQ etc. After twenty minutes, a CSR came and rescued me. They tried to port me off the cloud and back on to firm ground but couldn't so they ported me to the Splitpaw Tunnels.
    Back on topic, my only feeling about reinbursing mistakes is that some people are constantly making them! Should they be reinbursed every time? I know that CSRs could keep a list of who had had what done for them but this seems potentially time-consuming. My one mistake involving someone else was when I made a guardian spell for someone. I made one of the same name and level but for another class. All resolved amicably without CSR intervention! Maybe it is better if spells always have diffent names to avoid these mix-ups!
  18. ARCHIVED-zaneluke Guest

    Kalyyn@Splitpaw wrote:
    Ok like many posts in these forums, and many yet to come this is what happens. Someone posts an idea or suggestion and the majority of replies in thier created thread come out against the OPs idea or suggestion.
    Then the OP will state somewhere in thier thread something like what is quoted above.

    Its call "well if you do not like my idea then you must be a mean person" (or something similar).
    Not all suggestions are awsome. I think these boards are a great place to bring issues and complaints about game mechanics ect ect. But come in with some tough skin because your idea or suggestion might not get recieved too well.
    Look at the progression in this thread
    see how it compares to yours. Same deal, people voicing thier opinions, thread getting derailed a little. It iss the beast of online forums. You came in here and people agree with you on the fact, yes if you crash, by all means contact CSR.

    Not paying attention,crafting sleepy make the wrong item? Bet it only happens once.
    When AOC came out the mounts were insanley priced. It took all of my life savings to get one at 10 levels above when I was able to. I sold it by accident back to the vendor and it was 5% of the purchase price. I almost cried. I sucked it up and never made that mistake again.
    But in closing. We all are just like you. We love to play MMOS and love this game. We are not here to grief you. We are here to voice our opinions on the game mechaincs. Our opinions might differ from yours.
  19. ARCHIVED-ashen1973 Guest

    zaneluke wrote:
    I completely agree that people should expect other st disagree with their ideas, i like topost on forums and its because you get so many differing views on the subject that i do so.
    To me, there would be no point in raising an idea if everyone just posted 'yes, i agree'.
    i do not object what-so-ever in people disagreeing with me. I am more than aware that I have idea's that may not work for everyone, that may not work at all when thought through to a conclusion i had not thought of.
    I am all for objective responses, what does annoy me to some extent (well, to the extent that anything post in an online forum could do, i am very fixed skinned, beleive me , i have worked in an environment where I am disagree'd wit all the time and have every insult you can imagine thrown at me :p), is when people just respond in a negative fashion with no reasons given.
    I like to post here, in posts other people have made, I liek to post both in the positive and the negative. I do like to think I have reason behind my posts when I make them.
    I dont expect everyone to agree with me, i dont even expect most people to agree with me.
    If someone replies in the negative, with reasons for there post then I will think them through, I may not accept them, but i will think about their reasons.

    back to the topic in hand.
    I do see the point that this may put extra strain on the CSr's, but, honestly, just how often will this happen? And, as myself and others have posted, the CSR;s have already shown willingness to change items in similar circumsatnces.
    i also take the point of people doing it multiple times. Yes, this should be treated differently.
    When CSRs restore a deleted character, they do make a point of saying its a one-off deal. (although wether they actually stick to this is another thing). And I am all for people only being helped on a limited occasion.
  20. ARCHIVED-Bratface Guest

    Kirstie wrote:
    See that's the thing though, stopping a combine has not been possible through the UI, so when someone was making the wrong item they couln't cancel it so the combine finished resulting in a wrong item for the customer. The attempts to cancel did nothing and the combine finished even though it wasn't wanted, was noticed and there was an attempt to stop it but the UI didn't allow it.
    Me personally, I have had no trouble but that is probably because I have been aware of a bug with the recipe window for quite some time.
    If you have a recipe targeted (and ready to begin) and you switch to a different recipe it sometimes stays with the previous recipe and you end up begining that combine, NOT the one displayed in your UI, I had always thought it was just a quirk in the programming so I never /bugged it but I did begin a practice of ALWAYS closing the book out and opening it up again to change recipes when it was important (rares etc) because too often I had seen it make the last item I chose instead of the item I had currently chosen.
    Looking back now I should have /bugged it and I am sorry I didn't.

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