Once you get past the easy part of a class (holding aggro being the easy part of any tank), DPS and utility are what set classes and players apart. Ignoring your DPS is asinine. The more DPS everyone does, the faster things die. Any AFK Pally can keep aggro. If that's all you worry about, you should be boxing another character so you're actually bringing something useful to the group/raid. But, this post was about the utility a Paladin provides, which has been covered. Simply, Paladins do not provide much utility to a group/raid when compared to some of the other tanks. And, since utility/DPS are really the only things setting the tanks apart anymore, that puts Paladins behind most of the other tanks when it comes to desirability.
One can hold agro, but needs twice as much healing as another one who also can hold agro. Do you take it in consideration? Contributing 5% DPS to the group and requiring 20% more healing. Or perhaps, all tanks require approx. the same amount of healing? Or perhaps when tank's self healing is sufficient, all healers can be replaced with damagers?
That's the thing though. There's no such thing as "needing more healing to survive" in EQ2 because there is no tug of war. You can either survive, or you cannot. I doubt that has changed much, and I doubt it has changed in such a way that clicking something besides DPS is going to make a huge difference. And all tanks played properly can survive, or not, depending on player skill. That's how they are designed, and short of a few situations, all tanks have the tools to perform. I guess the point is, under no circumstance will adding another healer be the difference between being able to survive and not being able to survive. Even if it does crutch a bad tank, doing so ends up being incredible detrimental, and it's never necessary. That has nothing to do with DPS nor utility, or class, either in balance consideration or practical application. See: Brawlers being able to chain invincibility temps AND provide Combat Mastery, which is still waaaay more effective utility than anything a Paladin can provide. Last I checked, some tanks right now don't even need healers, but all groups will always have one healer. Unless there's some super OP item that no dev would ever put in the game that lets a shaman solo heal the raid.
Sure, if group doesn't need healer then the more DPS tank has the better. But I don't think that this is right. In theory healer should heal tank. Better tank should require less healing. That means that raid needs less healers (and thus more damagers) and/or healers can do some other useful things besides healing the tank.
There's the flaw: Better tank should require less healing. That wasn't how the meta worked last I checked. Usually the heal requirements are spun around everyone BUT the tank. Even then, some groups (including the tank group) can survive just fine with one, under many circumstances.
And there in lies the a benefit of a paladin. Tanks the mobs while off healing with a single healer thus reducing the need for a second healer in the group. Its a defensive healing tank. We all recognize there are times when that is not required, but there are times when it is ... mostly that time is in harder content ... or PLing with no healer.. smirk.
Utility to a group? Not much unless you are just needing a warm body. But its a good solo class and probably one of the best classes for powerleveling your friends
But is the paladin group healing really powerfull enough to cut off a secondary healer in harder single group content ? From my experience its more dependant to the tank + priest gear then the tanking class (assuming the tank isn't the gimped class of the month). I can't remember any time my SK required double healer were a paladin could get along with a single priest (assuming he wasn't simply out gearing me). I'm not saying your wrong, I'm asking the opinion of others players as well.
And there's the crux of the argument. It's not what we bring in theory, it's what we bring in practice. Even then, It's not what we have, it's what other classes have and could bring along instead. They have poor consideration for content that prefers one tank over another. They didn't want to punish guilds that didn't have access to one type of tank or another. So they made all content doable by all tanks (Or they tried, and accidentally made all content doable by SOME tanks), but that means all tanks are thrown into the arena together and competing for the same one or two raid spots. More often than not, when your guild is selecting a main tank, they will select the one which has the most universal application. Here's the kicker. Paladins have been pushed into the "main tank" role with their absolute strengths: That of superior aggro control, which is relevant for top end guilds, and the previously significant damage from Faith's Retribution. Literally everything else a paladin has can be point-for-point equated with another class' tools. With that said, Paladins were previously great in the main tank role, since that's the only time our "utility" of Faith's Retribution can be utilized. Unfortunately, they fell out of favor last expansion because there was some content that Paladins simply couldnt do.. and unlike a brawler or zerker which are great for tanking or offtanking, Paladins are only arguably better than other classes in the main tank spot, and even that's only on some fights. So why bring a Paladin? Just for the two out of five fights in the zone that he can properly utilize Faith's Retribution? Is that really worth having to juggle the Paladin out when he can't do the last fight? Or even if he can, can't do the remaining 3 fights as well as a brawler or zerker would? I'm a Paladin for life. The mistake I made was quitting and failing to pull the class in the direction of the current meta. It does need to be adjusted, and claiming that it is without fault is not helping that along. Don't believe me? Take a look at the patch notes. Where are the Paladin buffs? They don't exist because they aren't needed? Or they don't exist because no one is asking for them. History says the latter. Just ask Talathionn, and the berserkers reaping the benefits of his endless nagging.
QFT. I remember the last time zerker weren't 1 of the top 2 tanking class in EQ2. he cryied out loud like if the sky was failing and the class sudently became as tough as a little girl. Also sadly the state of paladin in modern MMOs is bad. The raiding/grouping meta in most MMOs is to not design boss to require 1 tank over another. So you'll bring the tank with the best toolkit. And paladin tanks, by lore are seen as a defensive tank wich make no sense when you must balance every tanks to survive every fight. No mather if a tanks is the offencive type, avoidance type, mitigation type or anything. You'll give them all tools to survive. So is the so called "defensive" tank really bring anything ? If all tanks can get the job dones your betther with the one who bring a plus value. One tank can cast a DPS buff on the raid , bring him. Another one deal twice the damage any other tank can deal because he is the "offensive" tank, well bring him too. After all, higher DPS shorten the fight wich mean less total healing required and less chance anyone while make a mistake that whipe the raid.
We asked to get our AA line fixed <--- complete with red name reply. Just not fixed yet. I know its not buffs it fixes. yes, because no body needs a second healer in single group content. Maybe in tepid/master chosen/uzulu if your low on gear. Zerks are in a good place right now. They can replace a pally a main tank or they can off tank. Point is this: no tanks really have much utility that can't be done better by the main utility classes in raids. There are some class specific reasons to have pallies to be main tank for certain fights, If we want to shift them to more utility tanks, to keep them around when not main tanking cause a) they can't or b) another tank can do it better then.... Heroic destruction 15% pot/15% cb @ 10 seconds boo.. Crusade should increase resists Divine Inspiration - more group undead damage.. The AA fix will help with damage a little. Pallies need more dps boost. wee funn stuff..
Well, ####. I love Paladins but I'm not seeing any silver linings other than, "Keep playing solo.". Maybe I just wasted my time so far to level 15.
My comment above is prolly jibberish that can be paraphrased as "Pally's tank fine. Utility is unique. May need more deeps in some instances." So, you didn't waste your time, crusaders been running it for a while is just other tanks are now pulling up/ahead with their unique play styles.
It depends on your approach to raids in EQ2. If raids are the most important thing is game for you, then you definitely want to play the class which is needed here and now. Keep in mind that while one class is "better" then the other today, it can be different tomorrow when developers decide to change a couple of class parameters. There are more goals in EQ2. You can do quests and collect lore for years without doing any raid at all.
