Paladin Heretic's Destruction will grant Fervor and Fervor Overcap to the raid instead of Potency and Crit Bonus Increased the base healing of Arch Heal by 27% Increased the base healing of Glorious Strike by 47% Increased the base healing of Divine Strike by 31% Increased the base healing of Prayer of Healing by 69% Increased the base healing of Holy Aid by 70% Increased the base healing of Demonstration of Faith by 26% Increased the base damage of Reparations by 27% Increased the base instant damage of Holy Strike by 252% Increased the base over time damage of Holy Strike by 119% Increased the base damage of Decree by 234% Increased the base damage of Ancient Wrath by 312% Increased the base damage of Judgment by 169% Increased the base damage of Refusal of Atonement by 181% Increased the base damage of Divine Vengeance by 199% Increased the base damage of Power Cleave by 486%
Heretic's Destruction will grant Fervor and Fervor Overcap to the raid instead of Potency and Crit Bonus Does the same as before and for sure it was forgotten that the epic 2.0 ability pass judgment overide heretics destruction. But with and without pass judgment, the ability is still on his old stats. Increased the base healing of Arch Heal by 27% Does also the same as before. Increased the base healing of Glorious Strike by 47% For the first this is not a heal and it was never a heal, its a damage proc, the damage is the same as before. Increased the base healing of Divine Strike by 31% For the first this is not a heal and it was never a heal, its a group damage proc, the damage is the same as before. Increased the base healing of Prayer of Healing by 69% Does also the same as before. Increased the base healing of Holy Aid by 70% Does also the same as before. increased the base healing of Demonstration of Faith by 26% Its a ward not a heal and it does also the same as before. Increased the base damage of Reparations by 27% Does also the same as before. Increased the base instant damage of Holy Strike by 252% Does also the same as before. Increased the base over time damage of Holy Strike by 119% Does also the same as before. Increased the base damage of Decree by 234% Does also the same as before. Increased the base damage of Ancient Wrath by 312% Does also the same as before. Increased the base damage of Judgment by 169% Does also the same as before. Increased the base damage of Refusal of Atonement by 181% Does also the same as before. Increased the base damage of Divine Vengeance by 199% Does also the same as before. Increased the base damage of Power Cleave by 486% Does also the same as before. So there is no change in or active. Furthermore, none of the real problems that have often been mentioned have been resolved. But I like to repeat it again: The shields are still defective, plate tanks have an uncontested aviodence of only approx. 13% to 19%. Whether you have a shield or not makes almost no difference. So almost all other classes have better avoidence stats as the plate tanks. Further: It would be nice if the paladin cures as "Zealous Smite" [paladin group cure] and "Cure Spells" [paladin single cure] became back an function, instead of them are complely useless, therefore the cure level with 127 is to low for solo, heroic and raid. Also for the paladin it would be nice if the ward on "Blessing of the Paladin" do not need to refresh 30 seconds to reach his maximum value. Then so as it is, this ward is in the fight completly useless. [comes from the AA choise of 5 points in "Blessed Warding"] And for the crusaders it would be nice if the ward "Aura of Leadership" would do not need to refresh 60 seconds to reach his maximum value. Then so as it is, this ward is in the fight completly useless. And over all classes it would be nice if the physical mitigation progression come back it the right order. fabric > leader > chain > plate ... at the moment it seems that the plate tanks, which should have the highest physical mitigation, have the lowest and the fabric wearer, as the elementalists, have the highest values.
Completely agree. Please increase the cure level. 127 is too low. Also, please solve Faith's bug. Faith does not reflect the damage, only reduces damage.
Just a few thoughts on the healing side of these changes Increased the base healing of Prayer of Healing by 69% Does also the same as before. Increased the base healing of Holy Aid by 70% Does also the same as before. increased the base healing of Demonstration of Faith by 26% Prayer of Healing and Holy Aid already seem to heal a huge amount. Im not sure there is anything to be gained by adding more. Im not sure what other Paladins feel, but Holy Aid isn't very useful, compared to Prayer of Healing, Devout Sacrament, and Lay on Hands, which all have useful secondary attributes. Maybe add a useful secondary attribute to Holy Aid. I assume the change to Demonstration of Faith is supposed to be an increase in the ward size. This would be very welcome, but wards are capped in Heroic and Raid zones, so any planned increase is probably a waste.
Please Devs, listen to the feedback from the players before ramming this down our collective throats. A small heal buff would be nice, but honestly it's not what most of us were frusterated with. Our monk can out-tank both of our pally's put together, all similarly geared. His survivability is light years ahead of us (due to the dodge/block issues mentioned earlier). A DPS boost may go a long way with our aggro issues in raid. Currently, in raid my DPS tops at about 200-250B while our DPS is doing over 1T. Due to the amends IV intercept I am still using Amends III. Even when I am tanking, my amends target can pull aggro through my amends at will. When I am placed in a group without T1 DPS, my amends is almost useless and snatching/holding aggro is simply futile.
Whatever it is the wards seem to sit between 1bn to 1.1bn for tier 8, 9 and 10 in heroics, yet sat in guild hall the amount between the 3 tiers is a lot bigger. Even so I find it odd that a defensive temp for a tank should be reduced within zones where you need them. Much prefer the ward amount remained the same. Would i be right in saying that the behaviour of our wards are linked to the wards from the healers, ie same script?
Now the changes are in, but: Heretic's Destruction will grant Fervor and Fervor Overcap to the raid instead of Potency and Crit Bonus As suspected it was forgotten that the Epic 2.0 buff ability "Pass Judgment" overrides the AA ability "Heretic's Destruction". Now "Heretic's Destruction" is better if you turn off the Epic 2.0 buff "Pass Judgment", this somehow makes sense to know the real sense here, then the Epic 2.0 buff "Pass Judgment" would have to be edited accordingly. Or this "Pass Judgment" ability is just as useless with the GU as our Paladin Cures "Zealous Smite" and "Cure Spells" or the wards of "Blessing of the Paladin" and "Aura of Leadership" And now to: Increased the base damage of Reparations by 27% Increased the base damage of Refusal of Atonement by 181% With the two abilities "Reparations" and "Refusal of Atonement" is it similar. In the last addon, the ability "Reparations" replaced the ability "Refusal of Atonement". Both abilities use the same timer slot, so they are mutually exclusive. So far it was the case that the newer ability "Reparations" from the last addon was the stronger of the two abilities, as it caused about 5 times the damage with about twice the reuse time and 5 times the cast time. Since "Reparations" is now only increased by 27% and "Refusal of Atonement" by 181%, "Refusal of Atonement" becomes the stronger of the two abilities again and thus the "Reparations" ability becomes useless again. In consideration of damage caused per second. If so, then both abilities must be increased by 181% in order to keep the ratio of the two abilities that use the same timer slot the same. ( they are mutually exclusive ) ........................................................................................................................................................................... I also point out the other problems mentioned above! "Furthermore, none of the real problems that have often been mentioned have been resolved. But I like to repeat it again: The shield mechanics are still defective, plate tanks have an uncontested avoidence of only approx. 13% to 19%. Whether you have equipped a shield or not makes almost no difference. So almost all other classes have better avoidence stats as the plate tanks. This make problems on encounters with extreme autoattack output dps as, for example "Xerkizh the Creator" on raid. Further: It would be nice if the paladin cures as "Zealous Smite" [paladin group cure] and "Cure Spells" [paladin single cure] became back an function, instead of them are complely useless, therefore the cure level with 127 is to low for solo, heroic and raid. Also for the paladin it would be nice if the ward on "Blessing of the Paladin" do not need to refresh 30 seconds to reach his maximum value. Then so as it is, this ward is in the fight completly useless. [comes from the AA choise of 5 points in "Blessed Warding"] And for the crusaders it would be nice if the ward "Aura of Leadership" would do not need to refresh 60 seconds to reach his maximum value. Then so as it is, this ward is in the fight completly useless. And over all classes it would be nice if the physical mitigation progression come back it the right order. from lowest >fabric > leader > chain > plate >to highest physical mitigation ... at the moment it seems that the plate tanks, which should have the highest physical mitigation, have the lowest and the fabric wearer, which schould be have the lowest, as the elementalists, have the highest physical mitigation values."... We paladins are really fed up with a backpack full of skills that no longer have a function, as these are neither adapted nor replaced in a meaningful way. Please our EQ2 DEV's change that soon.
I agree that adding to those heals doesn't mean anything. Prayer of Healing can almost fully heal my paladin, and that's my weakest heal. I've honestly had no complaints with my healing, damage, or aggro capabilities. I often have to run Subtle Strikes or carefully watch my aggro to avoid pulling raid bosses off of our guardian (this should be read as feedback that guardians need more power, not to take power from paladins). While I'm pleased to see paladins in the devs' spotlight for the first time in ages, giving useless updates is almost insulting. Instead, I join with others in asking for fixes to block and mitigation. What I need more of is survivability, not heals.
Yes we are very strong on heals currently, its more our lack of tools to deal with things that exceed our HP pool. Things like cooperative strike or strength in numbers is hard to deal with as a paladin (and SK?) yet on my alt tanks (zerker,monk) its easy. I know some paladins here are in higher guilds who group and raid with with players with vast amounts of DPS, but for those of us in more casual guilds where killing stuff can take a bit longer, the problem becomes a lot more apparent.
The abilities, "Pass Judgment" and "Reparations" have now been adjusted. However, all of the other problems addressed remain unsolved so far. So let's talk again in detail about the unsolved problems. The "Cures": Paladins were once the first class that could cure multiple types of detrimental effects. And all magical detrimental with "Cure Spells". What you could never cure with cure spells were trauma effects. For every successful cure with "cure spells" the ability "cure spells" generates aggro for the paladin. For several add-ons this is no longer possible because the cure level is too low. Up to the last add-on, you could still cure at least the solo instances. The aggro component of cure spells was already pointless at that time, because who needs more aggro in a solo instance. Furthermore, the question is, why was the cure level of the paladins restricted to too low in their abilities? Because every class can cure, for example with cure potions, for groups cures there are even cure items [which many raid guilds also use on raids] that anyone can wear. So why do you take away one of the paladin's basic skills or make it ineffective / useless? Basically, this doesn't make sense because it hasn't been properly thought through. The second ability is "Zealous Smite", which the paladins received with the Heroic AA tree, a group cure that can also be used under control effects to free the group from these. On the one hand you ask yourself until the last add-on after the cure level was already too low there, what should you do with a group cure in the solo instances. On the other hand, this no longer works in these solo instances since this add-on. Again, one wonders why? Because every class can cure. Mages and healers also with spells, everyone else with potions and items. And scouts like bards over cure procs. So why are the cures made useless by us paladin‘s? For me this has been completely incomprehensible for years. If you wanted our class no longer to be able to cure, you should replace these skills with something else that makes sense. So please dear DEV’s put our cures back into operation by increasing the cure level of our abilities so that our cures are not useless or replacing our cure abilities in a meaningful way. Thank you
The next point is the defective "shield mechanic" (confirmed by Kyle, Vallee alias Kander, at the beginning of BoL): Since the beta of the Blood of Luclin AddOn, the mechanic for wearing shields has been defective or incorrectly calculated. At the moment there is no noticeable difference between wearing a shield or not. In the past, you could achieve the maximum uncontested avoidance of 70% with a good shield and the appropriate amount of block chance. Just as brawlers do today with their class skills. Unfortunately, at the moment only an uncontested avoidence of approx. 13% to approx. 19% is possible as a plate tank. This means that this hits the NPC’s autoattack with 8 to 9 out of 10 hits. The brawlers, on the other hand, are only hit by a maximum of 3 out of 10 hits. Apart from the fact that it is not ok, that you can no longer see any difference whether a tank has a shield or not. The problem continues with the type of classes and their skills. Because the physical mitigation progression is completely messed up due to the increase and change of buffs over the years. Little has changed in the values of the armor types themselves. What creates the mess. Because tanks are excluded from most physical mitigation buffs of the classes, such as the healer. If one now looks at the avoidence problem and the physical mitigation problem and the classes themselves, the problem becomes recognizable. ... Warriors have tons of stone skins, these are consumed a little faster due to the low avoidence, the amount of damage of the hits is completely irrelevant, since the stone skins absorb this damage in an unlimited amount. Brawlers continue to have the high avoidance, are therefore rarely hit and have a large number of 100% damage blocks. So there is less of a problem here. Crusaders, mostly have damage reductions, which means they mostly collect the damage, but it must be possible to survive and heal them. On the one hand, however, the wards are used up too quickly due to the low avoidence, on the other hand, crusaders have the lowest physical reduction, and mostly, in the harder heroic instances and raid zones, the auto attacks of the encounter are too high for them to survive by reducing damage can. Since the hitpoints of the crusaders are far exceeded by the damage despite the damage reduction, especially since the crusaders hit even more such hits due to the low avoidens. So this would have to be reworked once. Equipping shields must again make a significant difference to tanks that have no shields The physical reduction of the equipment must be adjusted to the ratio of the buffs, so that plate tanks again have the highest physical mitigation values and not fabric, leather and chain armor carriers (it cannot be that a buff, buffs approx 300% to 500% physical mitigation of the actual armor worn, regardless of the type of armor worn, because this means that people who wear fabric stand better than the plate tanks) Thanks for a reasonable adjustment in advance.
Then we come to the next point: The regenerating ward’s: The paladin has the option of 3 regenerating wards. Unfortunately it is the case that these no longer make sense in the current form. I'm talking about the ward on "Blessing of the Paladin" and "Aura of the Crusader". The third ability is "Shield of Purity", but them regenerates in an possible acceptable way, also if it could be better if them would also regenerates by one tick completely. The problem is that the regeneration rate is far too low and therefore these abilities, their actual effect, cannot develop at all. With pure physical damage ward done by "Blessing of the Paladin", regeneration takes 7 ticks of 6 seconds. That means it would take 42 seconds for the ward to fully build up. But since you are usually hit several times every second by the npc’s autoattack, this ward never gets past the first regeneration stick in the fight. This is also one part of the problem of the bugged shield avoidence. This means that the one already completely weakened by the zone debuff "Chaotic Leech" is also divided by 7 again. Which makes this almost completely ineffective. The only sensible possibility would be that it was fully regenerated every time. The same applies to the ward ability, "Aura of the Crusader", because this ability requires 13 ticks of 6 seconds to charge to its full height. This means that in the fight value, which is already extremely reduced by the zone debuff "Chaotic Leech", is divided again by 13, since in the fight never gets past tick 1 in the fight. Here, too, the only sensible possibility is that it was fully regenerated every time. Thanks for the hopefully made changes.
Thanks for the write up, Ingerimm. I just hope the Devs are listening. Currently, our monk can tank multiple named or a named an a ton of trash while while doing near T1 DPS. Our crusaders struggle with one named without adds. I've been a pally since launch, ive pushed through hard times before, but the current raid/expert content is brutal, even with a resolve of 5320 and close to 2B health when in survival gear.
I dare to express my opinion about tanks balance: 1. Tanks shouldn’t experience serious problems with aggro; 2. Tanks MUST monitor their survivability and mobs position in relation of their group; 3. Tanks SHOULD NOT DIFFER very much in terms of their DPS. They shouldn`t be in the first place in combat parse. Enough experiments - a tank is just a tank; 4. (Follows from p.3) If tank (sub)class has a lot of DPS, then the usefulness of its buffs (or heals) should be less. I propose this plan for DEVs: 1. Remove aggro-stress problems for all tanks; 2. Rebalance tank classes DPS; 3. Rebalance their group utilities in accordance with p.2. My idea is that differences should center only around balance of survivability\utilities\dps. For example, for survivability: Mitigation is more effective for OT tanking while stoneskin works perfectly against the strong hits. And Monk should`t be more protected than a paladin! It`s completely crazy. I really think it's a devs mistake to have a "class lottery". You only lose even loyal players =\
I see the problem less in the fact that all tank classes have different advantages and disadvantages. This is ok and even important. The problem arises where some tank classes only have advantages and no disadvantages and others like the paladin only have disadvantages, since all advantages have been taken away over the years. Examples are the reflects (Faith and Legionairs Conviction) and their AA extensions such as 3 damage trigger for each group member with the limit of no more than 3 times the maximum HP of the paladin (changes only for the proving grounds which do not exist anymore), the only aggro snap "Holy Ground" by converting the +24 hate positions in +1 hate position, the no longer functioning cures, due to the cure level being too low. Bypassing the fear immune ability with some fear encounters. Avoiding the detrimental control break ability "Aura of the Crusader" by converting the effects into uncureable or curses and so on. If NPC opponents have abilities against which you can do absolutely nothing with one of the tank classes, no matter how well / expirienced you play. Then a problem arises. Against the damage hits of opponents, despite the maximum expansion of the hitpoints, the hitpoints exceed by extreme amounts. Where only stone skins or 100% blocks work. You can't do anything. Unless you have the appropriate skills. If, for example, a warrior who already has a lot of stone skins anyway, where damage heights are irrelevant, also receives more than 3 times (300%) the physical mitigation other plate tank classes in the fight, or a brawler, which as a leather tank was 2 armor classes lower (with epic 1.0 only 1 armor class lower) than the paladin, has more physical mitigation and more max hp than a crusader, something seems wrong with the same gear. Crusaders have a little more magical mitigation, but what do about 50,000 (4.5%) more magical mitigation with a standard magical mitigation of about >1,100,000? Here the ratio no longer seems to exist. Crusaders have no aggro bounds. => Warriors and Brawlers have. Crusaders habe no aggro snaps. => Warriors and Brawlers have. And so on. The dps of tank classes seems in ground ok. There is no good tank, that can beat a good T1 (wizzard/warlock/assassin/ranger) or T2 (necromancer/elementalist/beastlord) DD's. Sure there are good tanks that can beat, weak or casual or average DD's but thats not the problem of the balancing. thats ok.
Maybe an idea / a suggestion. Especially the crusader classes, paladin and shadowknight, have a problem with their damage reductions compared to stone skins and 100% damage blocks, of warriors and brawlers. These both crusader classes have to make sure that they reach the highest possible number of hitpoints. The problem is that the easiest way and only one way to get as many hitpoints as possible is to equip the mount gear in the barding slots with HP bardings. Warriors and brawlers do not care about the hitpoints for their defensive tools. The problem that arises here is, that if you equip the current 11 slots with hp bardings instead of potency bardings, that you lose at least 11x1,923.7 potency = 21,160.7 potency. If you even have the better void etched bardings, it is even 11x2,186 potency, i.e. = 24,046 potency. With every new addon and every new mount gear pieces this gap is widening more and more. Which of course has a massive negative effect on the dps and aggro of the already ailing crusader classes. Therefore, I would suggest introducing an HP to potency conversion instead of the prestige point "Bringer of Justice" for the paladin and "Chaos Knight" for the shadowknight, which are currently 25 cb overcap. So that you can wear HP bardings without hesitation without losing potency compared to other tank classes, which equip potency bardings without hesitation. For me, for example, I gain about 405,000,000 HP with my HP bardings and lose about 22,500 potency for it. Apart from the fact that I have to change for every much tougher encounter with mount gear, which is very cumbersome. You can not save or load mount gear equipment profiles. So you have to change the mount equipment manualy slot by slot. In my opinion, it would be a sensible stat conversion, as it supports the actual task of the crusaders as tanks and also takes into account that the crusaders are massively dependent on their max hp due to their damage reduction abilities as main defensive tools. I prefer to leave it to the developers to calculate the correct factor or curve for this. If the developers like this idea. Dear DEV's Thx for listening my idea.
Maybe a little idea or suggestion for the raid shortbuff "Heretic's Destruction" and the upgrade with the Epic 2.0 buff "Pass Judgment". The problem with "Heretic's Destruction" is actually that the duration of only 10 seconds, at 90 seconds reuse, is simply too short for this shortbuff to have any real impact effect at all. Therefore it would be nice if you increase the effectiveness of the ability with "Pass Judgment", that you not only increase the strength of the short buff by a few percent, but that you also increase the duration of "Heretic's Destruction", for example by 100% or 200% so that it can also be used sensibly. Thank you
As I said before, I just hope the Devs listen to player feedback on these issues. So far its just crickets, with the expansion only a week away (which leaves little time for testing even if they were listening).
I’m very hesitant to add to this conversation, in the fear it takes away from Ingerimm’s analysis. It is so well thought out and cover’s many of the issues Paladin’s are dealing with. I’m not comparing our predicament to other classes, but you know there are serious issues when few guilds are looking for a Paladin. What are the main issues that need to be addressed: aggro generation, survivability and overall group utility in raids. The main issue I have with the proposed changes outlined by Caith on 3/17, is it narrowly addresses: aggro generation (via the increase in Paladin DPS) and survivability (by increasing heal amounts). From my limited experience, the increase in DPS should be secondary to our class defining ability to generate hate via taunts and positional increases.; these are left off the list. And with Survivability, it’s hard to heal when you are dead, addressing stoneskins, damage reductions, etc. is key to helping this class. The challenge as a player base, is to understand complex coding issues won’t be addressed. The team is not going to spend significant time reworking abilities if it’s too time consuming. The best suggestions are, for example: Ingerimm “Therefore it would be nice if you increase the effectiveness of the ability with "Pass Judgment", that you not only increase the strength of the short buff by a few percent, but that you also increase the duration of "Heretic's Destruction", for example by 100% or 200% so that it can also be used sensibly. My list would include examples like: Can an additional trigger and duration increased from 1.2 seconds to 1.2+x seconds be added to Lay Hands – Barrier of Divinity/Stoneskin Reaction? Can the damage reduction and duration of Devout Sacrament/Divine Knight’s Armor be increased? Can the damage reduction of Legionnaire’s Conviction be increased from 40%? Reduce the recast timer for Faith? Adjust the Divine Aura so that the ability will absorb all damage when the amount is “greater than 50% of the target’s maximum health.” Please remove the intercept damage on Amends IV Holy Ground – increase threat position and total threat output? Clarion and Righteousness – increase total threat output? Marr’s Favor – maybe increase the physical damage reduction from 11.5% (Celestial)? Again, I fully agree with Ingerimm’s points on CURES, wards and especially the physical mitigation post! I think we have the tools already in the toolbox, just need some significant tweaks to make us viable, as Caith did with Heals & DPS. I don’t want to be the most powerful tank class….I just want a decent shot to compete.
