Paladin Feedback Thread

Discussion in 'Paladin' started by ARCHIVED-Maergoth, Aug 14, 2011.

  1. ARCHIVED-General_Info Guest

    Personally i'd change the Sacred Knight spell from:
    "when the paladin takes damage they will heal themselves for 110% of the damage amount" to
    "when the paladin takes damage the attack will be completely absorbed and will heal themselves for 10% of the damage amount"
  2. ARCHIVED-Maergoth Guest

    I would be fine with a few hits of stoneskins "If greater than 10% of caster's health" and a strong single target snap and taunt.

    Sure, there would be a few situations where you'd have to snap the mob to get the benefit, but in most situations, you would only need the benefit if you had the mob.

    Also, less recast, less duration. 2 minutes, maybe three tops.

    Also also, with the removal of crit mit, wardens had one of their abilities converted into an HP buff. Yet, we still have a raid wide wisdom buff, which is as close to "Charisma" as you can get at this point.
    How about something else?

    Sincerely,
    2011.
  3. ARCHIVED-Boli32 Guest

    And times like this I wish we had a Critical Mitigation buff...we may get a decent change (guessing the warrior critmit buff going to be changed into +health for the group or even +DR).
    Although with the changes to +Critical mitigation changing to +health adorns... you can bet the size of the AoEs/attacks will increase!
  4. ARCHIVED-Zergosch Guest

    last night, at a raid, i got shocked.... same encounter, same setup and i cant get my agro constant beyond 50. with all specials used, i could manage to hold the agro.... but not that save as it used.
    it was the second named in tempel hardmode, the 4 adds that comes at the start of the event. last time, i could even put the agrorunes away and had no problems.
    question is, where there made some changes? the last week?
  5. ARCHIVED-Controlor Guest

    Zergosch wrote:
    Most likely some heavy nuker decided not to follow the assist target and hit a mob that you are not targeting directly. Typically i will cycle my targets to make sure they are all on me (our assist is a scout usually). And will occasionally see an add rip off me to someone when the mob has a lot of hp left which to me says that they are not assisting. They dont hit hard enough for me to really care though. Usually i start with a bow pull hit consecrate and our avoid temp till all 4 are on me and then bring back to raid toss holy ground then throw out my aoe's. Almost never lose agro that way (and didnt lose agro Sunday night when we did that mob).
  6. ARCHIVED-Maergoth Guest

    Zergosch wrote:
    This is likely just other people playing poorly. However, every other tank has a way of dealing with that. We, as paladins, lack a strong AOE like sacrament. Our one position holy ground has to be enough to snap all four of them, and if we amends a strong AOE class to try to get some help, we're likely to rip the named in that scenario.
    Typical issue, I had the same problem first run through. Snapping hard enough to keep them off dps and light enough as to not grab the named.
    I miss old holy ground :/
  7. ARCHIVED-Irgun Guest

    Maergoth@Antonia Bayle wrote:
    Qfe! If someone feels it was OP, nerf it down to a 3second duration so you have to time it really really well, wont matter!
  8. ARCHIVED-Maergoth Guest

    Since it's been a good.. 6 months or more since this thread was significant, I'd like to edit the OP and post some updates.

    First of all, Paladins are in good shape right now. The changes over the past couple months, plus recklessness.. everything works better now.

    We have the most survivability out of any class in the game, besides maybe Guardians. They pull ahead with the useful utility stuff, which more than makes up for it.

    Besides that.. we're still really weak in the snap department. Thankfully, raid content has shifted slightly away from the memwiping craziness that was Drunder.

    Our utility is also the worst out of all the tanks still, but our heals are more useful than ever. Our DPS is pretty bad (not considering recklessness for obvious reasons), but that's alright.

    Over-all, we're doing better than we have been in the past year or so. Still waiting on some of some improvements on our shortcomings, and hopefully we'll see some of that with the next expansion.
  9. ARCHIVED-Controlor Guest

    Just out of curiosity how do we have the most survivability out of any class except guards? Yes the HP pool makes Divine Aura useful now as well as the strike through immune on stonewall. But both those are essentially shared with SK's. Sacrament is a higher DR than what the SK's get but not by much. And the 1 hit stoneskin for Lay Hands is on a 2.5 min recast. I would agree we have highest sustained survivability, but it has never really been about sustained survivability in these current expac's.
  10. ARCHIVED-hoosierdaddy Guest

    Maergoth@Antonia Bayle wrote:
    Learn something new every day. I knew something was wonky with Sigil and this explains it.
    I've used it before in an attempt to maintain aggro and have actually shed mobs upon casting it, as though my target for Amends had just died (and no, it isn't mem wipes--it's inexplicably going from 100% threat to like 78% or some other random number that JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.) In this case, it effectively operates as a deaggro tool. /boggle
    It's now gotten to where the only thing I ever use Sigil for is its accompanying mitigation increase while tanking especially hard-hitting mobs.
    Same with Holy Ground being so situational as to almost render it useless. It's great for DPS, but horrible for snapping aggro on adds while not disturbing the MT's target. If designers want Crusaders off-tanking, please give us more than Shout and Sneering Assault with which to work in doing so. Both of these are emergency snaps on long recast timers, and I'm presuming were not meant to be used on waves of adds spawning every 30 seconds.
  11. ARCHIVED-Maergoth Guest

    Controlor wrote:
    Basically, spike damage is higher than ever. The metagame has revolved around preventing random deaths to auto attack / damage proc combo landing with the AOE and death touch, etc.
    As such, our eternal strategy of "Preserve Divine Favor" is a strategy that actually has strengths over reacting to damage situations. Between LC, Divine Aura, Devout Sacrament, Crusader's Faith, lay hands, Stonewall, mana wall etc.. we have a very low chance for death. And if we do, we have Divine Favor. If something happens and it goes down, we just start comboing saves until it comes back.
    A lot of the fights at this point in the game are extremely long fights. Long enough for two or three recasts of Divine Favor. Shadowknights might have more triggers on their death prevents, but they simply can't recast it. Especially with almost all of these fights instantly putting you in combat. The Damage reduction on Crusader's faith is really only useful for spike prevention, due to recast and the fact that CF already locks you at 100% HP. So while we gained an ability that can be used often for sustainability AND spike prevention, they only gained spike prevention.
    Sustained survivability has become a huge part of removing the randomness in these end-game encounters. Fights like Eriak the Fetid are just constantly beating the crap out of you. The AOEs don't hurt as much as they used to, and we can rotate our saves for pretty much everything in the game now.
    Devout Sacrament is huge. It's sustained survivability, it chumps every AOE and death touch. I'd call it OP, but that wouldn't help our class and honestly, we needed it.

    With that said, however, there are certain.. anomalous results.. involving Divine Favor not consuming it's trigger. I have to take that into account. Sometimes, death touches simply zero my HP and power but don't kill me or anything. It's been that way for a while now.

    hoosierdaddy wrote:
    Two things.

    First, yes. Holy ground is situational. When adds spawn and get locked to someone in the raid (Known bug, not getting fixed any time soon though), the only thing you can do is spam AOEs, hope you hit it/them, or cast zealous smite and snap IMMEDIATELY after.
    The way it works is this:

    Main mob has 1000 hate on the tank, 800 hate on the top 3 dps, 500 hate on you as an offtank, etc.
    When the add/s spawn, they assume the 1000 hate the tank has on the named, and zeroes across the board for everyone else.
    By acting INSTANTLY, you aren't giving anyone else time to climb the hate list, and one position will effectively give you huge amounts of hate. By waiting even two seconds, you're giving dps a chance to establish themselves on the hate list, and a 1 position snap might only put you at 100 or 200 hate, instead of 1001. Beating on them longer doesn't help you at all. You're just giving more people more time to climb the hate list.
    So hit them hard, snap them fast.. before anyone can do anything. It really helps a lot.

    Second, shout is really, really powerful. You'll almost always have two coercers in an ideal raid. Unfortunately, it's impractical to use it all the time, especially if you have to ask for it.
    Shout REALLY needs to be made into a raidwide "Salve" type buff that just goes in the fighter's book.

    Sigil is also rarely a "Bad" idea. If you're in a group with 3 healers or a particularly bad set of support classes, you're better off not casting it. It just hurts your primary transfer. Any other situation and it's probably worth it.
    A NEAT TRICK THOUGH.
    If you're on a fight where mobs DO spawn and lock on random raid members, by precasting sigil of heroism, should the adds spawn on a member of your group, you'll instantly gain 36% of the hate they would have. Meaning, you are instantly #2 on the hate list for the entire set of adds, and one immediate holy ground will grab them.
    That's IF they spawn on your group while sigil is up.

    Thanks for posting bros.
  12. ARCHIVED-Controlor Guest

    Well our death save is still causing the bug that a death touch will put us in the perpetual death thing. It happened to me multiple times on Ikiatar HM where i thought i was out of line of sight but still got hit by his thing. There has also been fights where the death save went off but the recast was reset to 5 mins. Unfortunatly i do not remember which fights it occured on but it really is not fun having to wait that full duration for it.
  13. ARCHIVED-hoosierdaddy Guest

    Controlor wrote:
    All I'm going to say is that this can actually be used to your advantage in conjunction with this rune:
    \aITEM 2082065722 1574370:Resolution of War\/a
    I'll leave the rest to your imagination and experimentation.
    Back to the OP, a poster on another fansite suggested the possibility of an encounter-based aggro snap.
    As long as it was on a reasonable recast timer (~45 secs or less), it seems like this would go a long way in solving the problem of ripping adds from the MT while leaving his target unaffected, which is the function of off-tanks.
  14. ARCHIVED-Maergoth Guest

    Like I said on "The fansite" and in the initial post, it's pretty simple to fix. Monks already have an ability that adds positions to their taunts for a short duration. Holy ground should function the same for us.
    Currently, it can be used for aggro or dps. The important thing is to not change that. Versatility is good. By adding positions to decree or replacing decree with an encounter taunt, or even giving us another encounter taunt.. you're just making a mess of things.
    Temporarily granting our taunts positionals while holy ground is active should really be considered, especially with it only giving one position.

    Over-all however, the adds spawning and sticking on members of the raid, maintank included, is a bug. Fixing the bug would fix the issue. Note: When mobs spawn at a location or on the named, the problem doesn't exist. Spawning on raid members is what causes it.
    So.. either fix the bug or give us tools to overcome it.