our dps sucks, bad

Discussion in 'Dirge' started by ARCHIVED-jarrettes, Apr 11, 2005.

  1. ARCHIVED-jarrettes Guest

    so because you can't handle people saying anything negative, we can't talk about upper level dirge issues here unless they're positive ones?
    Excuse me for saying this, but if you don't like the post don't read it. We are real people that have real concerns about the class we put days and days of playing time into. The dirge class is obviously not finished and not balanced. The issue needs looking into and this seems to be about as good a venue as any to bring light to that.
  2. ARCHIVED-Salmastryon Guest

    I guess I didn't express myself so that you understood my point. :) I'll try to express it better. I understand that there are real issues in the upper levels of the dirge sub-class and I in no means meant to imply we shouldn't talk about it. What I don't understand is the comparison to playing a Dirge at a lower levels to playing them at the higher levels. There is definitely a tendency that when a lower level Dirge expresses something positive or like in this discussion talks about their dps for some level 50 to chime in well it is all broken at level 50 so it doesn't matter what you are doing. I was expressing the opinion that while level 50s definite are suffering it doesn't mean that us lower level Dirges can't have opinions too. =P

    And I'll continue to read the negative posts because I'm interested and worried about the problems in the upper levels. Hopefully by the time I get there some of it will be fixed. But at the rate things are going it doesn't look like it :( However, I'll still play my Dirge regardless.
    Message Edited by Salmastryon on 04-19-2005 09:40 AM
  3. ARCHIVED-Tsoe Guest

    Jarrettes:

    I simply stated what the parser was reporting. If are "gunna" have to call BS on that, so be it. It appears that you want input from other players - so long as it supports your own statements. Anything different would HAVE to be pure lies.. I mean, duh..

    You don't know which parser it was
    You don't know what level I am
    You don't know what equipment I have
    You don't know what my stats are
    You don't know what my group was composed of

    It certainly must have been easy to come to the conclusion you did given all the information you had.

    BTW: I am more than aware that our class, like every other one out there, has issues that need to be fixed. I was just pointing out how meaningless parser information is to the dirge class due to our utility role.
    Message Edited by Tsoe on 04-19-2005 12:48 PM
  4. ARCHIVED-jarrettes Guest

    I'm sure all of the information above was fair and balanced with yourself and the other characters you were comparing yourself with right? Our class problems are not "like every other class out there". Our problems are so great that our class could be considered far from finished and almost unplayable. Especially when WARRIORS are out damaging us. I mean, COME ON, GUYS, snap OUT of it! We are NOT supposed to be outdamaged by freaking WARRIORS! Are you kidding me???
    Just stop arguing and admit there is a HUGE problem with our dps, especially at 40+!
  5. ARCHIVED-Tsoe Guest

    I'm happy with my dirge, even as I prepare to hit 50... sorry if you're not. I'm also sorry you can't cope with someone not sharing your opinion of how "unplayable" we are. Not much anyone can do for someone like that.
  6. ARCHIVED-jarrettes Guest

    Must suck to be satisfied to suck.
  7. ARCHIVED-Priestbane Guest

    Good lord, Jarrettes. Question for you: when did you see the definition statement that said "Dirges shall not be out-damaged by warriors". And at the same time, where did you any definition statement for Dirges at all, beyond "Dirges are singers of angry laments to befuddle their foes and inspire fury in their allies" or something similar. Because if you saw it somewhere, then by gum, you may have something. Now I'm not saying you're wrong about Dirges having a lot of broken issues, but that doesn't mean that your vision of the dirge is the one true vision. I again can *$%#&! sure state that yor definition of useless and mine are probably different. Go play something recognized for its damage output if that is your factor for determining what makes you useful. I don't say that to tell you to leave, I say that because you sound patently unhappy from your tone (though I may be wrong...)
    I'm also not 50. Take this for what you will.
  8. ARCHIVED-Vulcaric003 Guest

    For my opinion I am happy i am playing a dirge. I have played many alts (to the detriment of my RL friends) and have yet to experience the satisfaction of my Dirge..I have a wizzy..pally..conjurer...and monk and ALL have fallen short of the satisfaction my dirge gives me. I would not trade my Dirge in for anything.
    To all Dirges out there keep the faith and dont let people get u down just cause they are unhappy
    Message Edited by Vulcaric003 on 04-19-2005 11:44 PM
  9. ARCHIVED-DocEvil Guest


    There is a statement about the dps of each archetype. Mages>Scouts>Fighters>Priests (i don't like this .. it should be more diffrentiated, as i see no reason why a illusionist should outdamage an assassin). We are part of the scout archetype, therefore we should outdamge most fighters and all priestclasses, so this is right. But i don't think that this is a dirge only problem. The DPS Fighters inflict is way to powerful, as they even do more dps then classes which main position is adding dps to a group. The dps of almost all classes needs to be recalculated and put into right order .. this is not a problem with "our dps sucks" it is more like "all scouts dps suck".
  10. ARCHIVED-jarrettes Guest

    Do you think that the intention of SOE is to make a class that can tank group mobs outdamage a class that can't? Is that seriously the balance you think is supposed to be in place?
    I can go with all scouts dps suck, as long as we're are doing substantive damage and more damage that a fighter, I'm happy.
  11. ARCHIVED-Camulos Guest

    Look,
    I wish you guys would just give up feeding the troll. Jarr obviously isnt going to be happy until he can reliably outdamage all the other classes, debuff a mob until it cant walk, even lift an arm in it's defense, and single handedly save every raid he is on. obviously to him being improtant is all about damage (a rather assassin-isque type view I would say). I honestly think you are playing the wrong class and should maybe think about re-rolling as an assassin or brigand. everything you have described above fits their way of thinking perfectly.

    From what I have seen most people are pleased with the amount of damage a Dirge does and really only want the Debuff/Buffs situation to be addressed. From what i have gathered from Dirges on two different servers they also agree with it. Maybe it will be fixed maybe it wont but either way man you need to calm down. By the way you post you seem dangerously close to popping that blood vessel in your forehead that is standing out about 3 feet.

    If you are getting frustrated try another class for awhile. That's what I did with my Coercer and you cannot say there is a more broken class in the game than the Coercer. It helps trust me.
  12. ARCHIVED-jarrettes Guest

    Wow, so you tell people to stop "feeding the troll"
    1. Aren't you doing the same?
    2. So because i have an issue with dirge dps, I'm a troll?
    So either we outdamage every other class in the game or we get outdamaged by every other class in the game, huh? No middle ground there?
    Do you think we should be doing less damage than a tank? Just answer that question.
  13. ARCHIVED-Priestbane Guest

    Maybe. Our role is not defined by our melee DPS. It just isn't, and if you think it is, you're playing the wrong class. Play any other scout and complain there, they are *obviously* more geared at output. The previous poster nailed it dead... fix the debuff/buff situation, before any dps consideration.

    If a monk or berserker hits multi-mob encounters (fighters have *nice* AE output even if it's not necessarily consistent) for more damage than I do, I'm not going to be pissed off about it. That they can take group mobs solo is definitely a concern for me... but then again, after level 24 (back when Lanet's was still nerfed), I could solo green group non-casters... and there are PLENTY of classes that cannot even do that. I can NOW solo some green caster ^^ mobs, where I never *ever* could before. I have my entire Dirge career been able to solo one-level-red solo/small group content (including the new "more dangerous" types). We do NOT have it all bad, and we sure as heck do not need a sweeping dps change, sorry.
    I'll be right in line with saying we need fixes... but if I were to put together a list of things I'd want fiddled with, DPS is pretty much one of my lower concerns in and of itself.
  14. ARCHIVED-Rrin Guest

    Less than berzerkers and shadowknights. I think we should definetley do less than those to classes when they are really trying to up their damage. Bruisers and monks, wihtout a doubt. They're the least "tankish" of the classes. As has been said MANY MANY times. Dps isn't where we shine. It's debuff and buffs. We're a support role to make everyone else glow brighter.

    As for my 29 dirge. I've had no problem with dps yet. I end up on top of the list 9 times out of 10. You have to know when to sing certain songs, and when not too. Now that our songs don't fade away (patch before last) you're dps should be doing better. If not something is wrong.

    Rrin Ka, 43 paladin
    Lope, 29 dirge
  15. ARCHIVED-jarrettes Guest

    A tank should not be outdamaging us. Period.
  16. ARCHIVED-Elerrina Guest

    if you trigger so many HOs, do you have considered that the discrepency in your DPS against other classes may have to do with them completing the HO and earning a DPS boost that way ? Especialy clerics often cast their advance spell last in groups, due to their other duties, in my experience(just a thought)
  17. ARCHIVED-Priestbane Guest

    Harp on that some more Jar. And show us where SOE said it was so.
  18. ARCHIVED-jarrettes Guest

    Playing EQ 1 and 2 for all these years told me so. It's called commons sense.
    You don't make a char that does less damage than a tank and can take WAY less damage than a tank. It doesn't make any sense. There needs to be a balance to tanking ablity and dps. Every other character in the game has it. They can either TAKE damage or DISH it out. We (scouts) are somewhere in the middle. How we ACCOMPLISH our dps can be many different ways (including debuffs). At the present time no matter how much we "debuff" a mob, we cannot match the damage output of a fighter type.
    It's OUT of BALANCE. And I would think as dirges, you people arguing with me would appreciate being on par with every other char on the game and stop wasting your time arguing with me and convincing yourselves that there is nothing wrong with dirges.
  19. ARCHIVED-Havlen Guest

    Playing EQ 1 and 2 for all these years told me so. It's called commons sense.

    I'd call it you don't know what you are talking about. The bard in EQ1 did less damage than a tank and could take less damage than a tank. And was overpowered.

    I certainly don't know of any guardians or monks that can save the group when the healers go down unless the mobs are almost dead. Nor do I know any that can save the group when they get multiple adds. Nor do I know any that can totally negate the boss mob while its followers are being taken care of.

    There's a lot more than just damage to the game.

    (And I'd think that was just common sense.)
  20. ARCHIVED-Priestbane Guest

    Who said we thought there was nothing wrong with dirges? Why do you ignore the fact that people post ther very OPPOSITE sentiment, while just disagreeing with your point about DPS?