We are seriously THE lowest dps class of all except for some healers. We can't tank, we can't heal, our debuffs are horrible, and we do the lowest damage of any class. I was in a group today that was reporting dps and it was EMBARRASING. I also don't understand WHY people on this board seem to think that a dirges place in eq2 is not to do damage... WHO SAID? We are a SCOUT class. This is NOT EQ1. All Healer classes can heal really well, druids in this game can heal a hell of a lot better comparably to eq1-its a DIFFERENT BALLGAME. Why can't dirges do scout-like damage? Something needs to be done, because I am getting, quite frankly, depressed about this.
Im not ragging on ya so please take what I have to say seriously. By the sounds of it, the bard class is not for you. Bards in any of thier incarnations, any one of the EQ games, D&D, FF games and so on are not about damage. The whole power of these characters comes from thier abilities to influence and effect others. In EQ2 termanology, a bards power, dirge particularly, should come from his ability to ispire rage in his allies, and confuse and instill doubt in his/her opponents making them weaker. Now if they ever get ALL of our spells working the way they should, the bards power will show in the hands of a good player/ These are suposed to be subtle characters, our abilities not only improve our own prowess, but that of our groups as well, so simpley put other scouts will aways show us upm and probobly the brawler classes. If being a notable damage dealer with bringing some buffs to the group, then more likly brigand, summoner, or sorcerer is gona be up your alley. ATM our uttility spells, where numerous, are grossly underpowered over all, if/when they get fixed we will be more notable in a fight, but we will still be on the low end of the damage pool with those we are grouped with, being slightly higher of being on par with the crusaiders.
A parser doesn't show how much dps a dirge is providing. It does not account for the extra damage added by our agi/str/dps buff, melee haste buff, proc buff, offensive skills buff or defense debuff. Nor does it show the damage not taken because of our defense buff. I don't think our damage is as low as some people make it out to be all things considered. For example, tonight I (45 dirge) was grouped with a 44 paladin and a 50 berserker. My dps was 74 over the course of about 20 fights, the paladin was 71 and the berserker was 122. Now, consider if I was only adding 5dps per person through buffs and debuffs (a very conservative estimate mind you) -- it now goes to my 84, 50 berserker 117 and 44 paladin at 66. Might we need a little boost to direct dps? Sure, we might, but we don't do near as low of damage as some people make it out. A simple parsing of the data is certainly not giving the full story and most people that I group with realize how much more damage they do and less damage they take when they are grouped with me. (Not to mention they get to run around a lot faster.)
As a 39 dirge fighting nightbloods in Rivervale I was parsing from 60-95dps. At times my dps was greater than a wizard in one of the groups. About 60% of the time I was the top dps in the group. I see so many complaints about our dps, yet I rarely have a problem myself. I think its mostly how you play the game and your equipment. If you have all app1's and are using aged equipment you will have a problem getting your dps up. If you dont pay attention and don't complete your HO's, your dps will also suffer. Of all the classes, I think dirge is my favorite. I know I will not always be top dps, but thats OK. I bring much more to the group than just damage output. If you dont realize that, then maybe being a dirge isnt for you.
Good Equiptment has a lot to do with a characters outcome on the DPS chart, You cant simply compare one class to another becasue everyone is different. One Dirge might have tons of Legendary gear with Adept III skills while another may be using sub par equiptment with low end skills. Just saying that you parsed yourself against a fellow brigand and lost out on DPS doesnt mean anything its almost impossible to find a constant baseline compairison. Again like others have said the Dirge supplies Dps , Haste and stat buffs to the grp . Lets say with all the buffs you supply you add 10% more dps to each character in the group, With 5 other melee types in the grp its possible you have just increased the whole groups DPS by 50% which i think is a pretty considerable number. If you want to try and factor in all your buffs and debuffs into the parsing , Turn all buffs off and dont cast any debuffs for one battle then record the dps of each player in the group including yourself. Then when your grp goes to fight another mob of the same type and level use all your buffs and debuffs Then simply compare the groups total DPS. Its not going to be perfectly acurate by any means but it will give you some idea what your contributing to the grp and I think you will be pretty amazed as to how much your actually doing. Personaly I feel as though my one dirge adds way more value to any group than a Swashbuckler or assasin can just becasue im making everyone great not just myself
you're kidding right? Wizards at our level hit for over 1100 and higher PER SPELL. There is no way that you can out dps a wizzie. You can't out dps anyone except clerics if the other char is really trying. Our DPS should be at LEAST higher than fighters. If you don't think so, you are seriously homering this whole situation. A fighter CAN TANK, are you KIDDING ME????? We CANT TANK, we CANT HEAL, therefore we should DO DAMAGE. Our "buffs" are a joke. Someone please prove to me that our buffs do ANYTHING for a group. Seriously, someone post the actual dps difference that our buffs give a group. Also, to the guy that named 2345324 buffs that we give a group and how great they are, tell me how you use haste(2 concentration) and all those others and still debuff a mob??? We only have 5 slots if that helps you. A bard DOES damage, yes i remember bards from EQ1 they also did damage, not the same damage of a scout, but DEF more damage than a freaking warrior. Any wizard that is trying does 3x our damage. And don't give me this equiptment makes a difference crap, because it DOESN"T I nonstop use abilities to do damage and I think most are the same. Who gives a *$%#&! what our delay/damage ratio is on our "uber" weapons when we're never just swinging away anyway. We are SCOUTS, we deserve more dps. We do about 60% of what a ranger does.
I out dps assassins and rangers regulary and come in close behind monks against raid targets. For Drayek I was only 7 dps behind a monk.
I dont have any dps problems at all. When a parser runs Im only bested by mages (not allways and not all) and some scouts (brigand, assassin) I do fairly good dps and even tho I didnt make a bard to be a top notch damage dealer I feel compotent enough in high end groups. *EDIT* - to the OP you seem upset, try another class, bards obviously arent for you, and what level are you anyway? Message Edited by Nemzo on 04-12-2005 07:01 AM
um.. I just don't know what to say here.. maybe upgrade all your skills past app1 and get rid of the grey equipment? That's the best excuse I can make for you given your obvious lack of a clue. ~Spacek
nothing i wear is grey, in fact most of my armor is orange and so are my weapons. All my attack abilities are adept 1 plus and i spam them non stop in battle and initiate HOs constantly and when solo, i do them solo. I still don't come close to any other scout class, and I usually get out dpsed by fighter types. When you compare two chars that are equally equiped, the dirge loses in dps every time to every class except healers. If you have some uber raid weapon that makes you compete better with the dps of a ranger or a warrior, wow nice, dirges still need upgraded dps. my lvl is 40 btw
I don't have any "uber" raid weapons, and I can outdamage rangers and warriors.. cept for monks. SBD/PGT and Bone Razor. All adept 1s, two masters. I often have to lay off CA's so I don't take agro. It does depend on skills of those that you're being outdamaged by.. was once with a ranger who had all adept IIIs, and it was tough stealing agro from him, but could be done. /shrug, not to say we don't have issues, and need some fixing, but we're not nearly as bad off as you seem to think.. and posts like "omg!!11! omg!11 I SUCK, we get outdamaged by ferretts!!11!, I can't tank, I can't heal!!1! omg!! omg!" will seldom get you a positive response. ~Spacek 46 Dirge of Kithicor
When you say all your attack abilities, do you also refer to the cry of departed/dead and the ludas line of spells? Cause I find using them hurts my dps the spell cast is to long I can do more damage with just basic melee. I'll have to disagree with that. I usually do 400-600 damage with ludas fiendish howl. No way you can do that kind of damage with straight out melee during that time -- at least at my level. I do wish that afflicted blade wouldn't miss so much because it really ups the damage on the howl line but the line does do pretty nice damage especially if used after a successful afflicted blade.
At first, I thought my dps sucks. Then I upgraded all of my damage styles to adept 3 and praticed timing our mental resistance decreasing attacks with lanet's and Ludas, as well as using our sneak attack during combat. While still behind other scout classes, considering the utility I get, my dps is balanced with other scouts. However, compared to fighter classes and sorcerers, it is too low.
melee/weapon based abilities I meant, although I run around 69% haste or more most of the time, also by the time it takes to cast ludas the mobs normally dead already, lately with all these wizards in my group. burst dps at opening of fight I hit 200+dps normally, but thats easy. Yeah, its not as good dps as afflicted, bereaved, etc, but we don't have an abundance of those to cycle. If you are solo you aren't going to be using the flank attack as much so the scream line is a good one to put in while waiting for the others to come back. Another question why do people say afflicted misses so much? Such has not been the case for me. Because it misses a lot. I have afflicted at adept III and bereavement at adept I and I miss twice as often on afflicted as I do on bereavement. I haven't collected the raw data, but I pay close attention to it because I look to see if afflicted hits to decide whether or not to do a howl after it -- since I can get a good 100 more damage from howl if afflicted hit.
Dirge changes: - Daro's Sorrowful Dirge will now improve as it is upgraded. - Verlien's Keen of Woe will now increase the amount of Wisdom, Agility, and Run Speed that is debuffed as it is upgraded. Scout changes: - Evade will now provide additional hate decrease as you upgrade the quality of the spell. - Sneak Attack no longer has a maintained effect. They fixed 2 of our non upgradeable spells and finally fixed evade my only hate reducer. But I agree "nothing for dirges" this stuff is a pittance compared to what they need to do for us.
Heh... nothing for Dirges? They're nixing parry buffs, and changing the way combat works entirely. I dunno about you but I *know* were coming out of this one different than we went into it. I'm a little more worried about the changes made in this patch than any other two patches combined.
