Not sure I'm getting "it"...

Discussion in 'General Gameplay Discussion' started by gambitak, Oct 27, 2021.

  1. joonace New Member

    You're looking at everything as it's in front of you rather than investigating. People here can go on and on about it, as seen above. But yeah, simply put, you have absolutely no idea how to break down any mechanics and you claim that having consequences for dying makes a game hard. Good luck in your endeavors. BL has abilities that blink to notify you of the energy gained and those are the available abilities to cast with what you've accumulated during combat. BL is not a great first choice IMO. If you can't tell the difference between a pally and monk here, then yeah, you don't get it. Oh well
  2. Almee Well-Known Member

    I am one of the biggest critics of this game as any long-time forum user can tell you. There is a heck of a lot, in this game, that needs improvements--just not the things that you find annoying.

    You aren't automatically given most of the perks--you despise. You have to either seek them out, earn them, or pay for them.

    But if you've bought the VoV xpac, and use your 120 boost to create a 120 character, I think you will find many of your complaints disappear. You won't breeze through VoV. Your merc won't be welcomed in groups. You can't fly till you finish the signature line for each zone, and you will spend gobs of time trying to figure out which armor, weapons, adorns, spells, etc., will keep you alive for a few minutes of play once you get past the beginning zone.

    You will have to learn how to play your character well, if you want to group, and you'll need to play at an expert level if you want to raid. Moving up through levels, using the original way the game was setup, is a great way to learn your character inside and out. Because using a spell, just because it is flashing, will get you in a heap of trouble when grouped or raiding. Using the wrong spell, at the wrong time, can wipe the group so you'd best learn to ignore flashing hotkeys.

    I hope you will take the time and effort to give the game a fair chance to prove its worth but it isn't everyone's cup of tea. It takes a lot more brain power, than most games, and some people can't handle that.

    There are things that need changing--that is the case with every game. But unlike many older games, DP really is improving the game dramatically, and releasing new content--which is especially impressive during a pandemic.

    Please don't take our comments as personal attacks--they aren't meant to be that. Everyone is just trying to help you figure out how to get the most out of the game considering the things you find objectionable.

    If you want to continue to play, try to find the things you enjoy the most about the game and concentrate on them for now. Improvements to the game are coming weekly and it would be a shame if you missed out on all the good stuff to come.
  3. gambitak Active Member

    I don't; I'm super appreciative of the time people have taken to answer this.

    You've kind of proven my point, though; I don't have a 120 upgrade since I didn't buy the VoV expansion (had to look that up). I have up to the Blood of Luclin, which I purchased when I started EQ2 in early 2020. I tried it then and found the same things I talked about earlier; and, the game seems to have gotten even more easy than I had thought previously, at least for the level I am now.

    So, as a new player, my incentive is to laboriously grind to 120/125 and THEN I have to learn to play, or not be able to group and raid? (expert and/or professional level play) Or, I can spend money on a game I've not been really getting, bump a character I have no idea about to 120.

    Another example of game play I don't get:

    I have a berserker and noticed that he has Berserk Rage III now. It's active until canceled. Why on earth would I want to cancel that? It provides everything a DPS needs: faster and harder hits with no apparent negative aspects. Why is that even a choice? Shouldn't it be active all the time?

    And people are suggesting that I mess with all these settings. Hell, I just found the setting to turn off the helm graphic. In fact, it took me 30 minutes to figure out what was causing me to be spammed with the message "Would not have taken effect". While looking for that, I just ran into "Character Development". I had no idea that was a thing. I could have kept going for 120 levels and not learned about that. It turned out that I had spoken with an NPC for Halloween and they changed me into a werewolf and for some reason something was trying to overwrite that. Still don't know what, but at least I'm not getting spammed any more
  4. Almee Well-Known Member

    Your problems are why it is good to join a large, active guild. Other players could answer your questions and help you along.

    You can also ask questions in the General chat channel and most of the time they will be answered but it does depend on the time of day and how busy other players are. There have been times I've had to stop playing one character, and switch to another, because no one answered a question and try again the next day.

    You can also look up information on the EQ2 Wiki site. And if you still can't find the answer, you can post your question on the Forum

    EQ2 is a very complex game because it has been around so long. What I learned over a decade of play still leaves me with a lot of things I don't know about the game. I can't even imagine trying to learn it all starting at level 120 as most of the basics of the game are learned playing at lower levels.

    One of the advantages of a merc is that at lower levels it will help you be able to tackle content that was originally meant for groups. There aren't a lot of players still playing in the older areas so the merc is more powerful, than it is at higher levels, to help new players level up without a group.

    You don't have to make a new character to play in the older areas either since any character, lvl 20 or above, can go to a chronomage, in any major city, and lower their level to the content they want to play for experience. Most guild halls also have chronomages, portals, vendors, and other helpful NPCs which is another good reason for joining a big, active guild.

    And even if you join a guild and get all your questions answered, there will still be aspects of the game that are aggravating. You just have to learn to ignored those aspects as much as possible and concentrate on the parts you like as no game is perfect to every player.

    But most importantly, don't be afraid to start all over again with a new character on a new server and a new guild. I've played on 4 servers and currently still play on 3 of them. If you want to access help day or night, play on Maj'Dul. If you want really challenging play go to a TLC server (requires a sub). If you normally play in the wee hours of the morning (US time) then your best bet is the Thurgadin server which is UK based.
  5. Mugwort Active Member

    There are a lot of ways the quest helpers can be adjusted to suit a playing style. For example. since GF doesn't like the fact that there are feathers indicating quest mobs, perhaps let her know that she can open the EQ2 Option menu (I am using default UI), click on [Advanced] to get to the more advanced features.

    Then, under advanced features, GF can find, under [User Interface] > [Name and Chat Bubbles] things like turning off [NPC Overhead Quest Icons] along with a similar one for repeatable quests. And, for those looking for quests they can't quite remember, but need it for faction to get that special piece of furniture or carpenter recipe, outleveled quest icons can be turned on (then off again when no longer needed).

    The quest icons were controversial when first introduced as some may remember, but the ability to turn them off was made available to those who preferred the old way and still exist under [Advance] EQII Options.

    Under the [Advance] > [Map Window] there are also options to not use the mini-map, use the old map system, and if the old system is used, to disable quest targets.
    Sigrdrifa likes this.
  6. gambitak Active Member

    But that's just it, those ARE the things I'm working with and was given. I still have no clue about the intricate ways I can manipulate the game through hundreds of flags in two different sets of options. Between character options and game options, it can be a bit overwhelming. I know, I've looked.

    To set this all up. I purchased All Access, downloaded the game from scratch, logged in my character and was presented with everything i described. I did not change any options or settings. Later, I made my 'X' key autorun, but that's about it.

    Everything I've talked about in here is something I've experienced. I'm still baffled that people feel that they need to port 2 "trees" over in Kelethin rather than walk. I walk the thing, or float as the case may be. I don't get the game design behind that design and can only imagine the laziness and complaining that caused them to implement it in the first place.

    I don't despise the perks, when it comes down to it, I just don't understand why anyone would want a "Give-me" type game. If the game starts at 120, why have old content at all? Apparently, I will not learn to play my character from 1-120 and I won't get group experience and certainly not raid experience. Why have it if the game truly starts at 120? By going through levels 1-120, I will most likely develop bad habits that will make grouping less likely until some kind soul explains the intricacies of "expert" or "professional" level of play. I am definitely not expecting to get them by soloing for 6 months to a year to get to 125 (soon, I guess). That's just a whole lot less incentive to play.
  7. Carynn Well-Known Member

    Game is old. Player base is old-ish and are at end game, because they've played off and on for years. The crazy mechanics and stats and how tos are hidden because they are also old. Sadly, this is not a new player friendly game without help. Luckily, you have help via us in the forums, on discord, and in guilds. The Live game is easy mode until you get to end game, because it was redesigned that way so new players and alts can get to end game quickly without having to pay, where all the people are. Anything you might find challenging will be either at end game, or go to TLE Tarinax, where content is somewhat harder as you don't have the Live bells and whistles, plus they're capped at a lower level. But it's up to you whether you stick it out, get to live end game (which takes a day, if that, if you're trying), join a guild (best way to go), and find that challenge; head to TLE; or sidle on out.
    gambitak likes this.
  8. tasnee Well-Known Member

    This. This all the way. The thing is, EQ2 is a what? 18 year old game. And I do realize that you played the even older one. But, and I hate to say this, not everyone enjoys having to work your way up from scratch when the new content is being released. I DO understand your complaint about the map, but things kind of change overtime to fit the wants of the player base that has been here for so long. There are definitely some things to complain about, I suppose. But there are a lot of things to love too - especially when most have played so long. I also think they have tried making things easier for newer players because maybe a lot of them have played other games that are easy (aka WoW).

    If you really want that challenge you seem to be looking for, go to the PVP or TLE server like others have said. Otherwise, I don't think you're really going to find what you seem to be looking for in this game.
  9. Finora Well-Known Member

    Do you remember back when Georgeson was over the EQ games? He did a number on EQ2. His plans to "streamline" the game for new players gutted our cities, changed how stats worked, & made many of the encounters in the game much much easier than they used to be. In the years since his departure, the team has slowly tweaked somethings back towards what they used to be, but it's never going to be like it was before at the lower levels (I'd say pre-100).

    You can't use mercenaries and get a good feel for the game. They do have things set up so there are pre-populated AA profiles, but for most classes there are better ways to set up your aa than the default auto-fill, though if you use one of the leveling baubles you get enough aa dropped on you that it doesn't make so much difference.

    All those travel perks, those of us who've played this game forever have earned those, thanks. We helped build those griffon towers, guild halls, empowered & defended druid rings & wizard spires, defended those wizard spires more than once in fact. If you don't want fast travel, there's still some overland travel in most areas so just walking around is still an option.

    Some classes are much more powerful at lower levels than others (berserkers are beasts at lower levels from my personal experience and I've had no troubles in through 110.) Others, can take more planning to play actually solo, particularly in certain level ranges where the strength of the monsters kind of over bears the strength of your spells. There is difference in how you play different classes. Sure, you can just mash buttons, but I'd think eventually you'll find it's more effective to do things a certain way.

    I played old EQ for some years (still periodically pop in to look at things), but I'll be honest, it's also not a "hard game" at least not way back when I was playing in most situations. Gates of Discord was the last expansion I bought I think, so a long time ago. It was mostly just time consuming. It took a long time to run anywhere. Long runs, long boat rides, long spawn times on needed mobs, some stupidly long corpse runs if you failed to update your bind point. Some of the raids were pretty challenging & going into new areas and figuring out how to pull was sometimes challenging, but otherwise it was just finding a good spot & standing around killing things until you out-leveled an area & moved on to the next. I found that pretty boring on my main (ranger) even though I was generally the puller. I can't speak of the difficulty past that time period really, but it certainly wasn't hard. The hardest things I remember was twisting songs on my bard lol and that's been changed to be much less carpal tunnel inducing (I can't say I'm sad about it). When I've gone back more recently it's been on the time-locked servers.

    All in all they are just two pretty different games, that happen to share a setting & some lore. If you come in expecting EQ1 with different graphics, you will be disappointed, just like someone used to EQ2 trying to play EQ1 might find the tedium built into the game unbearable (I know at least 1 person who will not play EQ1 with me because of that).

    And for the record, EQ2 released before WoW, so no, not a clone. ;)
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  10. tasnee Well-Known Member

    I was here for the travel perks too! BUT, I have to say it, the fast travel is what I think this person meant. Because even though we have the ports and the griffin towers etc, we never use them. At least I don't. I'm not saying that it's really a bad thing for people who have worked for those things, just that the fast travel thing kinds seemed to make them obsolete. And I think that's what he is saying too.

    I actually never played EQ1, I am JUST starting a character over there with a friend who insisted that I try it. He was showing me around and telling me about the lore and how things were back in the day. It was quite fun, especially since I decided to work my way up instead of buying everything.

    It did release before WoW, but what I think he, (and what I meant too) is that it seems to become just easier like WoW.
  11. gambitak Active Member

    @tasnee Yeah, that's the idea. That EQ2 seems to be like WoW, in that it's easy and caters to the crowd that wants to get to the end without enjoying the journey. Even quests are written to remove travel in zones. For example, I'm in "The Caves" in Qeynos and the only way I can seem to get there is via the city bell.
  12. Finora Well-Known Member

    A lot of things like that are simply because of how the zones have been designed in EQ2 from the start. A lot more zones were designed without clear overland paths to them from wherever you happen to be. For instance, the caves, you can bell into the caves or you find the more secret entrance which people probably no longer find without someone showing them because the sewers are super underused after the gutting I mentioned earlier.

    If you are referring to the fast travel option from the maps, well that used to be accessed by paying DBC for it only, at some point after subscribers were complaining that they weren't getting enough for subscribing over the F2P folks, they added free fast travel from the map as a perk for members. /shrug. I still forget I have access to it half the time and of course, it's 100% optional.

    My whole point is that the journey is what you make it. If you want to walk, take the overland routes as they are available. Don't use the fast travel, don't use mercenaries, avoid using bells. EQ1 also made changes over the years that reduce tedium, particularly travel tedium (POK books, which I think the bell system in EQ2 is actually based on). Even before some of those changes, I remember druids and wizards making serious plat porting people around in old EQ. People have always wanted faster ways to get places, EQ2 just had it baked into the game from the start.
    I know not every game is for every person, but you almost seem like you are looking for reasons to dislike EQ2.
  13. MightyMeaghan Well-Known Member

    There's also an entrance in the Down Below. EQ2 was originally a very different game from WoW, but as WoW dominated the MMO scene, EQ2 did like many games and modified their gameplay towards that model in hopes of sharing in the success. Like every other MMO that did this, EQ2 largely failed at it.

    When EQ2 game out, just about every zone had an access or key quest in order to enter, and quest requirements were much...more. There was an actual death penalty, but like every other major MMO, they'd abandoned the concept of a full naked corpse run. A lot of EQ2's initial game design seemed to be reactionary to the things that people complained about in EQ1, but it was still grindy and required a decent amount of work to be put in in order to succeed. I have a feeling you'd enjoy the original classic vision for the game much more than the modern version, but that's unfortunately long gone.
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  14. gambitak Active Member

    On the contrary, I wanted to really like EQ2. I love the old game of EQ1; anymore, I don't play on EQ1 live because it's way too easy, so, I play on TAKP, which is circa 2002. I've owned the EQ RPG books, the novels, and even have a license plate based off EQ. I started playing this game with the expectations that I would love it.

    I guess I just expected EQ2 to be different than a WoW clone, even though it did come out first. Everything is a gimme, so far. There are literally no penalties for dying or failing. Not even the loss of lives like a platformer. In EQ1, I loved the exploration, the fact that it was tough to get to some places safely and I was one of the few that did with my bard or a monk or a wizard. If I died, and didn't have a way to get a corpse, there were consequences to my failure that made a decision to try something a little more tough; however, the social or in-game rewards for doing something might be worth it.

    If you were given everything in life you ever needed or wanted, I'm pretty sure you'd become bored in a heart beat. Between Tome of Maj'Eyal and WoW, there has to be a balance. I've been looking for that game and I guess I haven't found it yet.

    I've been playing on the Tarinax server, and have somewhat enjoyed it, but the max people I've seen online is 44. And none my level. Even IF I get to max level there, grouping opportunities seem limited.
  15. tasnee Well-Known Member

    It never used to be a WoW clone, it was hard back in the day - but that's the thing, the old days for MMOs are long gone. If Pantheon Rise of the Fallen ever comes out, I recommend that, it sounds EXACTLY like what you're looking for. But the other thing is, even without the fast travel and the newer perks that come with the game - EQ2 was never going to be EQ, and it seems like that's what you want, an updated version of a classic.

    There are a lot of game mechanics at 120, and you need to be on your toes with end game content. But if you don't like the death system and you are determined to have a challenge now, sorry to disappoint, and I hope you find what you're looking for.
    gambitak likes this.
  16. Priority Well-Known Member

    Some of us did the journey while it was current and never left. A lot of us, actually. And sometimes I really, REALLY don't want to run through Nek Forest because I'm going to Thundering Steppes.

    Also, the Caves have only ever been accessible by city bell
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  17. MightyMeaghan Well-Known Member

    The Caves have always been directly accessible from the Down Below.
    Priority likes this.
  18. Reyder Member

    It's a combination of things.

    First, EQ2 now is a very different cat from EQ2 when it started. Travel used to be hard; now (as you pointed out) it's click and go. Grouping at low levels doesn't happen because of mercs. Tradeskilling was something you paid attention to or, if you were working the forge, you died. (Fun fact: In the early days, the Forge was one of the 10 top player-killers.)

    Second, most players now do *not* want to grind. In accommodating that, the rewards had to be higher so that the players could (almost literally) see their XP bar go up. Of course the result of *that* is that players quickly reach the top and then they can go raiding. You know, grinding with absolutely no change to their XP bar because there's no place to go from there. And if you don't want to raid... don't get to the top levels.

    Third, the complexity (as per First) has been reduced over time to bring in a wider audience. Lowest Common Denominator. I can hear the screaming now that "the game is extremely complex!". No. It really, really isn't compared to the start. Anybody remember when the Heroic Opportunity circle was common to all of the people in a group and the Rogue could change what the possible effects were? Anybody remember when making plate armour required first making all of the parts? Anybody remember when spell effects were far more complex and individual? How about when the spells themselves were more varied? (I remember as a necro, casting an animated blade that went out, fought, *drew aggro*, and lasted for a bit. Now, it's just cast the spell, damage is applied, done.)

    As you pointed out, a wizard with a merc, a conjurer, and a necro are all pretty much identical. Similarly, who needs to group when a Ranger or a Rogue can use a merc to draw aggro while taking pot-shots at the mob's back?

    If you want to make it hard again, dump the mercs. Keep in mind, though, it's gonna be much harder going because things are scaled to take mercs into account.

    I don't worry about getting to end-game any more. I'll never see any of the raid areas (I'll never get to half the high-level content because of that), and I just take my time. The only reason I have Level 120 characters is because of tokens to raise levels instantly.

    You have to make a certain amount of your own fun.

    I have a necro who betrayed to Qeynos (a very simple thing now, but then very hard), worked like mad at his objective, then betrayed *back* to Freeport. I've now got a necro who worships Quellious and has a Quellious deity pet named InnocentBystander.

    I have a Provisioner who's contemplating betraying *just* to get the recipe for Chocolate Chip Cookies of Seething Malice.

    In EQ1 I had a Level ONE halfling who walked all the way from Rivervale to Thurgadin. Sadly, can't do that in EQ2.

    If raiding and decorating are not your thing, EQ2 is very much a single-player game in a multi-player world.
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  19. MightyMeaghan Well-Known Member

    Here's to hoping that the emulator community comes through with a more classic server sometime in the future.
  20. DENSER Well-Known Member

    U forgot the soul to take back into the middle of giant field in the steppes if u died their ;)
    Basically okay with it all. after more than a year of return, the game has lost its splendor.
    Fast service answer when it comes to a problem that prevents you from paying.
    When the problems Inherent of the game ( spells issues, mechanism...) You can always wait. To me that means a lot.
    And yet this game, from its beginnings, is very rich.