Not sure I'm getting "it"...

Discussion in 'General Gameplay Discussion' started by gambitak, Oct 27, 2021.

  1. gambitak Active Member

    I've played EQ1 for 21 years or so, off and on, and have recently been playing EQ2. My GF got me to try it and I'm either missing something or not understanding game design.

    It doesn't seem to matter what class I pick, as a casual player. It seems as if the only difference is whether I want one set of blinking bars or another. No class seems interesting because nothing seems to set them apart. Is that by design? I don't have to learn any of the names or what the buttons do, because they blink for me and I learn that button 1 does 10hp or 100hp and button 2 opens button 3

    Death has absolutely no impact (at least up to level 50, where I'm almost at with a BL); resurrection happens automatically, and if I pay for DB cash (Pay to Play?), then I can rez right there, no waiting at all. Is there any negative aspects of dying, or does it matter at all?

    I've raided dungeons solo because groups seem to be non-existent at lower levels. I've died a couple times and have had no problem working through them if I take my time. Do the challenges scale with more characters in the group?

    I don't have to travel the map at all. I can get on a horse, griffin or click on a shiny blinking thing and just click on another part of the city and I'm there. Is that because people are sick of running 2 minutes in a city?

    I guess I just don't get why a new player would choose to play if over 50% of the world is auto-bypass and there's no fear of dying, especially if the player is casual. It seems as if EQ2 has become, or has always been, a WoW clone with even less consequences of failure. So far, I've not felt challenged in anything, so no incentive to actually try for anything. Am I missing something? I've followed the quest lines and outside of a few deaths, I've not really seen anything difficult to make it feel like an accomplishment

    As a looooong time EQ player, I want to like this game; however, every single time I log on, I almost immediately log off. My Wizard hits as hard as my ranger who hits as hard as my BL, who... then, you throw on mercs and man, it's so damn easy... what am I missing?
    Iludiin, Aethos and Mermite like this.
  2. tasnee Well-Known Member

    When the game originally came out, it was much more challenging at lower levels. I think because most people are 120 now, it's gotten easier at lower levels because they want you to hurry up to the new content (at least that is how it feels).

    As for the fast travel, I'm not really sure why they did that.

    I'm not sure how it is for everyone else, but I feel you on the Death thing. Other than rez sickness, there doesn't seem to be a huge deal with it. I don't know. I think maybe it's gotten easier for people because not a lot of peeps play anymore. I do wish you would have been here in the beginning though, it was much harder then.
    Iludiin and Siren like this.
  3. Aenvar Member

    You could say almost the same about EQ1, whatever class you pick just let the warrior merc powerlevel you... There is nearly zero risk and challenge unless you get to the higher levels or play in a TLP server.

    The game can get very complex later on, I hope you stick around and give it a chance:)
  4. KauaiJim Active Member

    Having played both (two accounts EQ1 and three accounts EQ2) I can tell you they have many similarities but also many differences. If you were expecting EQ2 to carry over some of EQ1 game difficulties (challenges) like harsh death penalties you will be dissapointed (although I hear corpse runs are a thing of the past in EQ1 so I guess even that has become easier). As for not getting it, well, that's exactly how some folks feel about EQ1. It's a matter of preference. I don't get why anyone would want to eat beets when asparagus is so much better.

    There are differences between classes in EQ2 - just not the same as the differences in EQ1. You saying the classes have no diffeence tells me you haven't really played them much. Like any MMO if you really want to get a true feel for each class, play them from brand new level 1 and take it slow and do everything. You really can't jump from 21 years of in-depth EQ1 experience and get a valid comparison to EQ2 in no time at all. Actually play it for a bit. Don't skip over things.

    Travel has definitely been made easier in EQ2 - and I for one appreciate it. Not everyone does and I can respect that. As someone who enjoys doing so many other things in this game, I like very much that I can save an hour of my life not slowly getting around every day. Others feel that is part of the experience. To each their own.

    It all comes down to personal taste and preferences. That's kind of why there is still an EQ1 and an EQ2 to choose from. Even when EQ2 first came out there were many from EQ1 that tried it and said "No thanks, I'll stick with EQ1".

    So, your take on things here isn't wrong so much as it shows me you prefer things the way they are in EQ1. If your GF really enjoys EQ2 and thinks it's the bee's knees then maybe ask her to explain it and show you what she finds so enjoyable.

    And if it turns out that you just plain prefer things in EQ1, there's nothing wrong with that! Glad you came here and gave it a try anyhow.

    (and for the record, EQ2 does have it's share of issues - not saying it doesn't. All mmo's do)

    Take care and best wishes!
    Iludiin, Carizia, Juraiya and 6 others like this.
  5. Carynn Well-Known Member

    Anything below level 120 is easy, because it's considered old content and it's made to go through fast to get to end game. If you want a challenge, you need to get to 120, join a guild, and start raiding. That's where the challenges you seem to be looking for (skill & min/max challenge) can be found. For solo adventurers, this game is played for the enjoyment of the stories found within the quests. If you don't get that out of soloing, and you don't want to raid, then this game is not for you.

    Raid guilds advertise on Discord regularly, if you decide to go that route.
  6. Miragian Well-Known Member

    Or, get to 120 and try to do current content in the box gear, there will be lots of challenges. :p
    Rienna and Jaden like this.
  7. gambitak Active Member

    Thanks all for answering.

    My GF sits right behind me and plays, so I ask her questions all the time. She just says that she likes it because it's familiar and not as difficult as EQ1. She's been playing for years, opening an account during OG EQ2. She doesn't like the fact that there are feathers now to indicate quest mobs. She doesn't like the sparkle-focus items, etc. But, she does like playing the game still.

    For me, I have not once felt the thrill of losing a corpse or anything. I mean, you can zerg into a dungeon and end up at the entrance with all your gear once you die. Then, all I have to do is "Call Home" and I'm 'safe'. Literally, no danger to my character. Why have death in the game at all if there is no inconvenience?

    As far as all the classes being the same, I have to ask, how are the mechanics different? For example, in EQ1 Monks are quite a bit different to play than warriors, who are different than a cleric, etc. The cool downs are different, there are different damage ratios for classes, etc. In EQ2, my Fury hits for 'X' amount of damage by pressing 1, and then following the blinking buttons I do 'X+Y' damage; now move onto my BL and I push those same buttons and do the same damage. When I'm near my GF, we can see almost identical DPS stats and damage, and she's leveling a Coercer with me.

    If the goal is to get to 120, then why have old content at all? Why not offer for everybody to start at 120 and let a person choose level 1, explicitly, if they want to slog through 1-120?

    One thing I wanted to play here was a wizard, to be able to get around. But, wizards aren't needed for porting anymore. Why have ports for wizards when anybody can port now? According to my GF, that used to be different.

    I'm looking for a different game because EQ1 is no longer challenging, at least to a long time player; I don't raid and I don't know that I have any desire to raid, in EQ1 or EQ2. I've not done it here, so I really don't know. I was hoping that I could get that sense of accomplishment that seems to be missing in all the modern MMO games. That's why I no longer play WoW, DAoC, etc. I was hoping EQ2 was going to be a little different, but almost halfway to level 120 and I can't tell you anything special about the classes that set them apart, the areas I've been in, et al. The experience has been like an okay book that you read once and then forget about promptly.

    For example, she was dying multiple times in a dungeon (no penalty or anything), so I stopped work, hopped on my character and zerged the zone with her. She was trying to plan what to pull, etc., and I laughed and just ran forward. The dungeon was higher by 2 levels on average than us and we pretty much killed everything in the zone, sometimes twice because of a fast respawn. We died once, together. That took absolutely no planning, no skill, nothing. I think it was a level 30-ish dungeon, and I brought my level 50 and mentored down. I think it might have been Kaladim, but I'm not sure.

    That's when I found out that I don't even have to evaluate my AAs, the game has been doing it for me this whole time. So, I'm pretty much like every other character of my same class and level.
  8. KauaiJim Active Member

    Okay, so you are looking for hard core challenge along the lines of how EQ1 used to be. Nothing wrong with that.

    I don't think you will find EQ2 fits that need for you. While EQ2 has plenty of challenge, it really isn't the same kind as the early on EQ1 stuff (I know, I used to play it).

    If you are expecting the class differences in EQ1 and EQ2 to feel the same, I'm not sure why. Again, while these two games are similar and share stories and lore, they are also two very different games. But to say there are not any differences between classes in EQ2 isn't valid either. I guess it all comes down to what you expected from EQ2 based on it being a follow up version of EQ1. They really are quite a bit different.

    Have you looked into Project 1999? My brother has much the same take as you and he has been enjoying Project 1999 for a while now. I tried it and all it did for me was to remind me how much I DO NOT want to go through all of that again. To each their own. But it might just be what you are seeking...

    In general, all mmo's seem to have become easier over the years. I have experienced this in numerous AAA mmo's that I have played extensively since they released. They tend to start out hard core usually as part of the original developer's 'vision' and then ease up over the years to become more accessible to a wider playstyle and playerbase (although there are a handful that started out easy mode in beta / prerelease / early release - then changed to hard core - then eased up over the years). Probably because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to remain financially viable with only a small hard core die hard playerbase.

    Folks pop into just about every mmo forum I've seen and demand things go back to the good old days - or even make them more difficult like 'perma-death'. Again, to each their own. Some folks are happy riding a roller coaster for a thrill. Other's seek extreme sports and could sleep through a roller coaster ride. You enjoy what you enjoy...

    Anyhow, EQ2 is not going to feel more challenging than old style EQ1, at least imo. Take a look at Project 1999 and see if maybe it would fill the void. :)
    Iludiin, Uwkete-of-Crushbone and AOE1 like this.
  9. Sunlei Well-Known Member

    Gambitik I've played eq1 and eq2 from the beginning of time. I can understand what you're saying about eq2 & the 120 game on the regular servers. Even the TLE Kaladim is (sadly) beginning the bloat..... Please consider the newest server Tarinax for the harder type old EQ2 experience. No easy travel, a duo can do ok but much better with a group or guild. Crafted items are needed and useful mercs. EOF expansion is due to release ~ 11/8 you have enough time to lvl and be in the thick of things if you hurry a little.
    Uwkete-of-Crushbone likes this.
  10. gambitak Active Member

    That's what I'm saying that I'm missing, I guess. There is absolutely no challenge yet. Halfway to 120 and not a single time I felt a little bit of a challenge. So, what am I doing wrong? I'm following quest lines that are level appropriate.

    I realize that EQ2 is different and I don't think I expected it to be like EQ1. But, I do feel that the classes make no difference to me, as a casual player. I'm sure on raids everybody has their role. I've played maybe 5 or 6 different classes and can't see a lick of difference yet; with, maybe, the exception of the scout classes that are entirely dependent on low lag time to use their attacks. Playing from a remote area like me, it doesn't often work.

    I play on TAKP atm; or was, I hit 60 and dozens of AAs and yeah, it's fairly boring. People choose to go to like 3 zones and grind AAs. A few years ago, there were a group of us that got together and did dungeons. It was a blast. Now, they've all moved on for the same reasons I am.

    Do I have to be bored for 120 levels before the game gets challenging and fun? Don't get me wrong, the graphics are pretty, but after awhile, they're fairly similar. Or, I could try to get my GF on Tarinax, like Sunlei suggested. I don't know that she would go for that, but it's worth an ask.
  11. tasnee Well-Known Member

    I would suggest the same thing as Sunlei. Try Tarinax, but remember that its a PVP server too.
  12. gambitak Active Member

    I found out it was PVP when I went looking for it. Logged in and noticed that there were only 20 other players on the whole server. That's an insanely small amount of player base. I think Shards of Dalaya has a larger player base than that (EQemu-based server)
  13. MightyMeaghan Well-Known Member

    Try the Kaladim progression server and see if it's any better at lower levels. It might be moderately more tolerable as you progress. The monsters have additional buff packages so they shouldn't immediately explode on impact. The server just got mercs and beastlords and I haven't played those at a lower level yet, but soloing lower levels as a conjuror was satisfying. Just make sure you're pitting yourself against heroic mobs, because solo mobs will still crumple. Start in Qeynos or Freeport for a more old school EQ2 experience.

    On a personal note, I get exactly what you're saying. It's why I also play on the P99 EQ server and am rather impatiently awaiting the completion of a similar server for EQ2.
  14. Obano Well-Known Member

    EQ2 basically starts at level 120 (soon 125). Everything before that is a joke. Most people don't even bother going through the levels. They just /claim a boost token and go straight to level 120.
  15. Grumpy_Warrior It's a KILT, dang it!

    You can turn those off in settings
    Uwkete-of-Crushbone likes this.
  16. MightyMeaghan Well-Known Member

    There's just something that doesn't sit right about having to artificially make the game more challenging. I mean, I still do things to make leveling new characters more challenging, but it's still irksome. The only answer to this though is to just wait and hope a new game or emu server that meets your expectations eventually comes out. Until then you just make do with what's there, or find a new hobby.
  17. Almee Well-Known Member

    All of the things you mention, except the death penalty, are optional. They were instituted to make it easier for casual players to be able to keep level with new content and I am very thankful for these "fluff" innovations.

    You can ignore the blinking lights on your hot bar and use the spells you want. Sometimes the blinking spell isn't the one you really want to use under the circumstances so I usually ignore them.

    You don't have to fast travel or use bells, etc. You can do it the hard way if you want a challenge.

    You don't have to use a merc. The game is far harder without one.

    You don't have to use the free gear. Level up tradeskills and make your own or buy it if you have millions of plat.

    You don't have to play the easier version of the game. The TLC play is far harder than the Live servers.

    Basically, the game is what you make it. I don't like stats in the billions so I play in the older zones most of the time thanks to the chronomage and new characters I make. I take my time and do new quests I wasn't able to do with previous characters. I level up tradeskills and harvesting, and I like to decorate.

    I have tons of pots to level my mounts, mercs, and spells. I don't think I've ever used one of them. I have lots of things to put on my mounts to make up my stats and I rarely use them either. Same with adorns and whatever else they have that I just put in the bank.

    My characters are rarely in level gear unless there is a free chest. I've taken many a character from lvl 1 to 50 in their birthday gear.

    So the challenges are there if you want them. You apparently don't want them or you wouldn't be using the bypasses. This is one time DP really can't be blamed for their game design.
    Uwkete-of-Crushbone likes this.
  18. MightyMeaghan Well-Known Member

    All of the options you mentioned are just that- Optional. Artificial. It's one thing for an invested player to decide they want to mess around with them for funsies, but telling a brand new player that they should go in and make a bunch of artificial changes to the gameplay in order to kinda-sorta get a more tolerable experience is silly, and you come off as condescending in the process.

    That's a pretty common occurrence on these forums. A new player comes in and doesn't understand some things about the game and is frustrated, seeking an explanation. New player is then given a long laundry list of options in order to make the game remotely playable and is usually insulted in the process.

    Honestly, the remaining community in this game kinda sucks. It's mostly the die-hard holdouts who get offended by even the slightest bit of criticism from a newcomer or outsider. The new player experience in EQ2 is straight up not good and, again, the community sucks. I don't blame new players for not wanting to stick around. I wouldn't either if I were in their shoes.
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  19. Carynn Well-Known Member

    That could've been the time you were on. There is a healthy Tarinax population in the US evenings, but FYI, the entire EQ2 player population is small. But if you're soloing, the content will be harder on this server, as you won't have mercs, bonuses, etc. You still don't lose your body or gear any time you die, though gear breaks 10% per death. Worth a try, at least, to see if it rings your bell.
  20. Snicketysnack New Member

    All I can say is wait until you're toon is lvl 96 and your merc starts to flag. Then start at level 100 in Planes of Power and watch your merc get chewed up pronto by overland trash mobs and wonder what happened? Then realize, you didn't level your Merc to 20 (takes 199 days or.. dollars!) Then take a look at your mount and realize the same thing. What are all those slots for and how to fill them up? Hmm. Try some of those solos now and see how it goes.

    Your real EQ2 journey begins at 100 or 110. Prepare to die a lot, learn a lot and really learn how to play your class and leverage all the recent features of EQ2 you've been overlooking because you didn't need em.