New Reckless Stance 3/14/2014 Test/Beta notes

Discussion in 'Test Server Forum' started by Silzin, Mar 18, 2014.

  1. Silzin Active Member

    at first glance i like the changes. i would prefer that it was changed to suspend when you get hit for more then 10% of your health. this way just getting attacked with an AoE Auto will not suspend it.

    other then the suspension the Hate changes look like any fighter that does not want to tank should be capable of it. Also holding aggro with Reckless active should be impossible.

    Just my ideas on the topic and wanted to start the conversation.
    Mermut likes this.
  2. Sunje Active Member

    I like the changes but its not enough, its easy to compensate the -150% hate gain, in the temple zones we have an item that gives you +40% hategain and some other items that gives hategain or hate priority boosts.

    The other missing Hate gain can be get via adornments and it looks easy to compensate, i think 200% is a better start.

    However i like this changes and it would be change the fighter thinking!
  3. Widem Active Member

    The taking damage component just makes reckless stance unplayable in most cases.

    Does this fix using avoids on other players or does avoidance still break reckless stance?

    It doesn't seem to address some of the real issues.
  4. Glassjaw Active Member

    I very highly doubt any tank would use valuable adorn slots for +hate gain adorns to attempt to make up for the -150. If they do they are simply making a poor choice since there are far better options for adorn slots.
  5. Zenji Well-Known Member

    I like the changes. However I must agree with Silzin that the damage taken that suspends Recklessness needs to be adjusted. AE autos should not efect it.

    As well as maybe some change to allow Reckless Stance to be used while not grouped. We need a balance of QoL and grouped mechanics, not a drastic swing one way or the other.
  6. Poetical New Member

    reckless already make you take double the damage, why reduce so much toughness too? in PVP that's gain in double the potency and losing 4 time the survivability.
  7. xkrisx Well-Known Member


    How about something like that.. the Mitigation decrease is enough to not allow us to stay in and eat AoEs but its enough that if we are out and take an AE Auto for Physical frontal it shouldnt kill us. It also makes it so that non-physical AOE's will still be mitigated and do the same damage to us as it would all other classes in raid. Just a thought and a suggestion.
  8. Regolas Well-Known Member

    Doesn't dehate cap at -50? So that -150 is just making sure that a fighter with 100% hate gain caps out dehate instead.

    Personally, as a player who plays a zerker, sk and bruiser, I don't like it. Purely from a trivial content point of view (this includes advanced solos) it just slows down how quick I can run through it. I've only once used reckless on current group content (by accident), usually it hurts me too much and my tanks have reasonable gear (top level heroic usually).
  9. Estred Well-Known Member

    AE Auto's should not suspend Reckless. It should only suspend when the tank is swung at directly. Meaning they have Aggro.

    That alone ensures tanks in Reckless when Ripping are adequately punished but not punished when they are not making mistakes (attacking and someone spins a boss). They should suspend only when the tank spins the boss.

    Do scouts lose their damage when they spin a boss? No, they don't if they don't die. Tanks... they get screwed for 30 seconds and they also do less DPS than scouts to begin with.

    Sadly because the "defense" tanks (Guardian/Monk/Paladin) got shafted for that this would be the fair way.

    Now if they added a flag of "Does not Suspend if two or fewer players in group" then suspends. That would make Reckless not suspend in Solo's ever.

    My stance: "If you tank in reckless, you get penalized. If you did not become the direct target, you do not get penalized"
    Daalilama and Mermut like this.
  10. Silzin Active Member

    the Designed point of Reckless, as I understand it, is to "help give tanks a DPS role when NOT tanking". Not to allow tanks to replace T1 dps raid slots, just to give us the capability to Not tank when it is needed to JUST DPS. to this ends (So avoidance abilities can not be used to bypass) getting swung at with an auto attack and being the target of the auto attack to suspend makes sense.

    Just making it so getting agro for just a few Seconds b an add does not drop Reckless would be VERY nice... like a 3-5 sec window. Also only dropping of Direct Auto Attacks would be nice.

    tanks of NO type need help blowing through Solo content at lvl 95, Maybe Guards since they have the lowest dps and about no self healing... but the are not being effected by this change... so what ever.

    I do not think adding something that procs -Hate positions is a good idea, since then the Reckless Tank would have more DeHate ability than ANY T1 dps class and that would not be balanced.
    Mermut and Estred like this.
  11. Estred Well-Known Member

    It would be nice but I think leaving it as Direct Attacks only is the most balanced way to treat it. If a tank want's to blow Temps to keep it up... let them.

    That is my thought. Maybe let the Grendish Neck turn Emergency Taunts into Emergency De-Taunts would be good. Alone with a set of O-Stance and R-Stance buffs... but that is me being hopeful.
  12. Silzin Active Member

    1 more thing that i think would be VERY nice is... When Reckless change all Abilities that have +Hate Positions to be -Hate Positions exept Rescue and Sneering Assort. Give then 50% (Min -1) of the -positions as the +Positions.

    this gives all tanks 2 Snaps in reckless and at least 1 desnap?... or what ever it is called.
  13. Silencing New Member

    I agree with it being changed to being the same as a paladin, guardian, and monks. I agree with it needing to be so it doesnt cancel on AE auto's, only direct targeting. As far as the dehate/depositional thing goes, its a bad idea. A tank in reckless stance should be wise enough to know that they shouldnt use ire procs, or positional snaps. The -150% hate gain is a great addition. The only thing I would change about it is making it so that its a perm. -150%, meaning no matter how much +hate gain gear you had on, it would always be -150%. I also agree with perhaps allowing reckless to remain active while soloing/duoing for all tanks. While I have no problems doing adv. solos with my pally, not being able to do them in reckless dramatically slows down how fast I can complete them. That became painfully clear when I do the same zones with my zerker.

    I know hate transfers cap at 50%. Im not sure about hate gain, or in this case the lack of. While yes it would be possible to get enough hate gain to bypass this. It would still be impossible for anyone to try tanking while in reckless. As mentioned just getting swung at would cancel it. Overall though I do welcome this change and am glad that the issue is at least being looked at.
  14. Estred Well-Known Member

    Hate caps at +100% and at -50% so that -150% ensures you ALWAYS will be at minimum percental hate modifiers. There is a bug right now that percentage hate modifiers are actually not effecting Taunt or Detaunt values, only Potency/Crit/AMod.

    So there's your answer to hate :D also the transfer mechanic is screwy but I don't know exact details yet.

    - Having Percental Hate Mod at -50% or greater at all times. Great.
    - Having Reckless only suspend when you are Directly Swung at (Have Hate). Great but not implemented.
    - Having all Positional Snaps become Positional Drops. Good idea but perhaps this should be the Grendish Neck+ Other effect.
    Grendish Neck:
    - Having all Taunt Values made into Detaunt Values. Good idea, not implemented on the Stance as it's currently what Grendish Neck does.
    - Simply making all attacks be Positional Drops so the Tank cannot rip. Bad idea as there is then zero risk involved if you have another Tank.
    - Having it stay active while no more than 2 Players (including Mercenaries) are in a Group. This means Soloers+Merc still can use Reckless or Duo-Teams may still use Reckless. However, a Duo-Team + Merc cannot due to already having a DPS advantage enough. It's not really a requirement but it sounds as the fairest way to treat this. This set up keeps Reckless usable for Advanced Solo Zones but prevent's it's use for Group Dungeons at 3+ players.
    Mermut likes this.
  15. Silencing New Member

    The Grendish neck is fine as is. Again a tank should not be using positional snaps while in reckless. With the implementation of reckless giving -150% hate gain, a tank should never worry about pulling aggro. If youre specced for taunts to do damage, which Im sure everyone is, you wont have to worry about those either if youre using them anyways. The Grendish neck would just make your life easier with having the extra dehate. I understand youre looking to maybe squeeze out a little more dps from being able to use things like sneering assault, but that I think is asking for a bit too much.

    I mean I would love to be able to use Holy Ground on my Pally or Jeering Onslaught on my Zerker, but this might also cause balancing issues. Jeering Onslaught alone would give a zerker an AoE depositional by 3 every 22.5s... show me one dps class that has a depositional that comes back that fast.

    While Holy Ground is less severe with it only giving 1 position + threat on every combat/spell hit for 10s every 46s, that would mean that on every combat/spell hit he would get a dehate from using this. Again show me one class that has a dehate that lasts 10s and triggers on every combat spell hit. Not even a swashies Avoid Blame or a Brigs Befuddle has that. I grant you those are both maintained abilities, it would still be going overboard.
  16. Sunje Active Member

    Love the changes!

    Now its an damage stance only and not a damage tank stance!
  17. Skyline New Member

    SO the whole point of reckless was to give tanks an option to DPS when not tanking. This only really happens in raids when clearing trash and easier mobs that have become basically trivial due to raid progression of gear. If you can tank raid mobs in reckless, (the current sk, zerker, bruiser version) then good on you and the current mob you are fighting is probably so low on the progression that you getting the kill (let alone the gear drops from it) are probably not of your concern and the name is more like trash than a named. So here is my proposal:

    Unable to cast reckless unless:

    - Another tank is in group/raid (this means I can't tank a heroic zone in reckless with a standard set-up)
    - If solo or with mercenary

    the suspension of reckless is the most horrible thing, as an SK I may sometimes rip aggro in group mobs off our guardian for a second (same as any DPS class may do), but if I keep it than I should die or the healers have to heal me through the increased damage. Having the dps benefits from reckless being removed causes me to now have to sit there and hardly attack cause now I no longer have any negative hate.

    So give us -150 hate with the above restrictions to be able to go into reckless and stop the suspension please. Again if I pull aggro DPS'ing in reckless I should not get more defense and survive.
  18. Thand Well-Known Member

    So much for my All potency armor Sk who solos in Recklase. Realy kills his build
  19. GIndotto Well-Known Member

    Yes, I laughed when I saw that SK's and Zerkers were getting added to this suspension mechanic, the same one I've been dealing with on my Paladin already on live for a few months. Of course now that SKs and Zerkers can't tank in reckless suddenly the forums are abound with cries of horror and the game being ruined.

    Thank you Sony for finally changing this stance to be equal to all tanks! Now I'll actually enjoy running heroics again on my healer.
  20. Estred Well-Known Member

    They still need to fix reckless but yes, they finally fixed the issue of Tanking while in Reckless. It's suicide to do so now unless your healer says "inflate my parse"

Share This Page