New proc adjustment and zerker taunts...

Discussion in 'Berserker' started by ARCHIVED-Erick_Stormfury, Feb 16, 2006.

  1. ARCHIVED-Erick_Stormfury Guest

    With the new proc change, our damage is definatly taking a major hit. But honestly i've been expecting this for awhile.

    my concern is our taunt level. They've balanced our taunts with our damage. With this decrease in damage, how well are we going to keep aggro. Can some of the test zerkers report on how major of an effect this has had on our ability to taunt?


    -Erick
  2. ARCHIVED-julius_skeezer Guest

    what happened to our damage? what proc adjustment are you talking about
  3. ARCHIVED-infernus006 Guest

    Yes, please elaborate on this "proc change".
  4. ARCHIVED-Pegesus11 Guest

    Yeah i have to wonder what you are talking about. Are you speaking of upcomming changes in KoS cuz i saw nothing of it. My dmg is the same its been for a while i have no problem holding aggro or being in the top 5 of parsers.
  5. ARCHIVED-Erick_Stormfury Guest

    go check the "in testing forums"
    Now proc's only occur off the first attack.
    There for, when we used to hit rampage, and AOE and proc on all the targets, from these hits, other proc's project from these proc'd hits. This will no longer happen.
    Rampage will only proc ONCE.
    Therefore in our same example above, you rampage, you AOE, rampage procs once.
    In another example, when rampaged, you hit frenzy, hit hits 3 times, and proc's 3 times under rampage. basically, this was only counted as 1 of rampages 10 proc's... a nice 3 for 1 proc.
    now, you'll hit frenzy while rampaged, and it will proc off the first hit, and not the next two.
    this change was primarily to reduce rangers, as there proc's were letting them do about 4000/DPS on raids. however, this really effects us as well. but more importantly then the damage decrease were going to receive, is our taunts have already been balanced based on the current damage trends. with this reduction in damage, i certainly hope they will increase our taunts then to offset it.
    however, on test, they have only nerfed the damaged, without changing the taunt level.
    again, here is my question, can any of the zerkers on test let us know how bad this hurts our taunting ability.

    -Erick
  6. ARCHIVED-Hunadi Guest

    In live update 20b, that will hit along with KoS, this was in the notes.

    - Procs will only occur on the first successful attack of a single combat art, not each attack. For example, if a single combat art strikes 5 times, the proc will only have a chance to trigger once during that art rather than 5 times.


    I was also wondering how bad this will affect our damage output. Will this affect rampage, open wounds, all AE damage, or would it only affect Frenzy type arts? For Example, if an AE is hitting 3 people, can we still get a proc on all 3 hits? or is it only on the first hit? I would think in the case of Frenzy, where it's 3 possible attacks on 1 mob, only the first hit will have a chance to proc something else, but I don't know what this does to AE's.
  7. ARCHIVED-infernus006 Guest

    I think this really sucks for all classes that rely on procs to do any real damage :(

    Yeah, they sure better increase our taunts to make up for this loss of aggro or we are going to be really sucking :(
  8. ARCHIVED-AtomiC_WedgiE Guest

    This is weapon procs, not CA's

    quote:
    We'll continue to work with procs until we're comfortable with how they function. To those crying doom and gloom for the Ranger class: Rangers are currently the higest DPS in the game. They are not supposed to be.

    If you want further clarification on the proc changes we've been making, especially the first one, read on.

    As you know, there are many weapons in game that proc extra damage when they land an attack in combat (for example, imbued crafted weapons). In order to ensure that no style of weapon was more likely to proc than any other, we base a weapon's chance to proc on its delay. In other words, a slower weapon has a higher chance to proc because it lands fewer attacks; a faster weapon has a lower chance to proc on each hit because it lands its attacks more often. This keeps dual-wield, one-handed, and two-handed weapons on par with each other in their chance to proc.

    Some buffs also provide a chance to proc extra damage on a successful attack. Because we even out the proc chance based on delay, such buffs work equally well regardless of weapon type.

    These buffs also have a chance to proc via combat arts. However, there is a bug on the live servers in that the proc chance for combat arts was also being calculated based on the delay of whatever weapon was equipped. Some players have been using this to their advantage by deliberately equipping slow weapons in order to give their fast-casting combat arts a better chance to proc.

    As of Live Update #20, combat arts will base their chance to trigger a proc on the casting time of the art itself. Weapon delay will no longer affect any combat art's chance to trigger a proc.

    Certain classes will feel the effects of this change more than others. Scouts (especially rangers) were more likely to benefit from this bug than other melee classes, which contributed to scout damage being higher overall than it should have been--especially in relation to mages.

    While no class likes to see a reduction in the damage it does, the alternative would be to not only increase the damage output of other classes to compensate, but also to proportionately increase the health pools of NPCs to account for this rise in player damage. The second option would involve a lot more changes and would be prone to introducing other imbalances into the game.

    While not doing anything about this bug would be preferable to some, we cannot ignore the progressively more significant effect it is having as the game evolves. Fixing this issue will help bring many of the classes back into their intended range of damage output as we discussed around the time of LU13 and the combat revamp.

    Keep in mind that if you play a melee class but don't rely on a slow weapon to generate extra procs, this fix should have little impact on your style of play.

    Ryan "Blackguard" Shwayder
    quote:

    You are correct.
    These changes mean, simply, that you'll get the number of procs indicated in the spell description instead of potentially a lot more.
    ===========================
    Steve Danuser, a.k.a. Moorgard
    Game Designer, EverQuest II
  9. ARCHIVED-Florin Guest

    You are confused..and now you are confusing even more ppl.

    Rampage was changed from a proc to a direct hit a looooong time ago. Rampage will proc 10 times no matter what in this system, will proc 10 times no matter what in the new system.
  10. ARCHIVED-FlameingInferno Guest

    WoW, this kinda sux :smileymad:
    I may not get some of my weapons Imbued in T7 and just go for the stats. I think it sux that the stats all go down when you imbued a weapon and they are all the same.
  11. ARCHIVED-Hunadi Guest

    I'm definitely confused on this one. Here is the way I'm reading it.

    Rampage causes 10 procs max. that won't change. But in the current system, each proc of rampage also had a chance to proc something else like when using an imbued weapon. So now, only the first proc of rampage will have a chance to proc the imbued damage also. Is this what it's saying? Maybe I'm just dense, but the wording doesn't make it very clear to me.

    Edit: or would this only happen on CAs like Frenzy?
    Message Edited by Hunadi on 02-16-200611:34 AM
  12. ARCHIVED-Renzai Guest

    CAs with more than one hit (aka frenzy) will only have the possibility to have added damage from a proc hit once for the duration of the CA.
  13. ARCHIVED-terrified killer Guest

    so this will mean that us zerkers
    and rouges will do less dps as we rely on procs or will it be the same?
  14. ARCHIVED-Pegesus11 Guest

    So basically what im comming to figure out is this.

    If its only based off of a weapon proc then we will lose dps on CA like Frenzy. However Open Wounds should not be affected by this since each attack is its own and not a set of attacks. Same with Rampage. Now having a weapon proc on multiple mobs from a CA like Assualt that im not too sure of.

    Also if this proc change is only for weapons then we should have nothing to worry about with stacking Rampage with Frenzy and hitting all 3 times with Rampages proc.
  15. ARCHIVED-infernus006 Guest

    Moorgard made another comment about this issue on the In Testing Feedback forum. Quote:


    "The fix absolutely should be applied to everyone, or else it isn't a fix. While the ranger class can be used to illustrate why this fix was important, it wasn't made only because of them.
    Balance decisions were made in preparation for LU13 without knowing that these bugs were present to distort the results. Some rough edges we can live with, but we are unwilling to go into a whole new realm of damage output with these issues still present. Adding 10 to the level cap and introducing achievements will make players that much more powerful; leaving in bugs would result in the 4000 DPS rangers that BG mentioned in his post.
    Taunts were also designed with certain degrees of player damage output in mind. The reduction in bugged procs will affect fighters less than scouts, so it will likely be a bit easier to hold aggro with a scout in the group. But again, aggro management is the job of everyone, not just fighters.
    As we've said several times already, we'll watch how all this plays out in practice and will adjust any factors we believe necessary."

    Message Edited by infernus006 on 02-16-200605:28 PM
  16. ARCHIVED--Aonein- Guest

    Alot of you are all getting confused by this.
    This isnt just effecting Rampage, accually its not effecting Rampage at all, because the way their changing the system is how Rampage works right now, this will be affecting other CA's and applied effects ie: Unbridled Fury or other NPC casted proc effects that work when you hit a mob with a weapon or with auto attack damage upon a succesful hit. So for example lets look at it like this, you fire Rampage, followed by Slaughter, lets say there is 5 mobs in the encounter, rampage will proc or has a chance to proc of all 5 mobs in the encounter because Slaughter is classed as a melee ability, now also lets use Frenzy as a example, you fire Rampage then Frenzy and hit 3 times, Rampage will proc from all 3 Frenzy hits, this is how its worked for awhile after they fixed it from proc stacking back in late 2004, early 2005. After they fixed it, we never got over 10 procs, we just use up those 10 procs faster.
    This will still work like this, but lets say for example, you fire Rampage + Slaughter and are in Offensive stance with other class applied proc effects on you ie: Fury buffs, then your only going to be procing one effect at a time, instead of a 10% chance to proc Unbridled Fury, Rampage and Fury Buffs all in the one Slaughter swing which lets say there is 5 mobs in the encounter, you will only proc Unbridled Fury or Rampage or Fury buffs, how the system will chose what to cancel out and use what is beyond me. This is a big hit to Berserkers.
    We already took a nerf to our Damage output in LU18 when they made it so that CA's and applied effects to proc from a succesful melee attack only proc from Primary now, so people who dual weilded lucked out on DPS and all or most of the Berserkers went back to using the slowest Two hand weapons they could get.
    Now with this change their changing it so those slow Two handers dont effect the percentage of your chance to proc said effect upon a succesful melee attack, a 100% nerf for those Berserkers who use very very slow Two hand weapons.
    The problem is because Rangers are proc stacking and getting upwards of 4000 DPS, which is why their doing another knee jerk reaction nerf, instead of fixing the problem their working around it, same as the fix for LU18 with Assassins getting massive damage from posion effects.
    My guess is this, they dont like the way the DPS is scaling, we didnt really get a huge upgrade to our DPS in Tier 6 because of the LU13, 16 and 18 changes, all it did was bounce around a little bit and we got a mediocre at best upgrade to our DPS, now the same will happen here with Tier 7, we get a revised proc calculator which no one knows how it works exactally atm and we lose DPS in Tier 6 only to regain it through our new abilitys in Tier 7 and AA abilitys, the same way the item stats were scaling, there slowing it down in Tier 7, so my guess is their not happy with the way that some classes are doing DPS and as usual, we get hit in the mix.
    I go away for 2 weeks and come back to this........dont know about the rest of you, but im tired of having my damage output changed because other classes are doing a immense amount of damage because of a SoE poor mechanic issue.
    Did any other classes get effected when they fixed and changed Rampage? No, so why are we getting hit by all these changes that are based majority of the time around Scouts?
    Posion procs from Assassins caused the knee jerk reaction in LU18, and now Rangers doing what we used to be able to do back in the day with Rampage, yet we get effected by both changes...........
    Message Edited by -Aonein- on 02-17-200608:37 AM
  17. ARCHIVED-Spike92 Guest

    I have had Rampage proc 42 times in one use after that fix they made back in 2004. And I hope the way you explained it is the way it works.
  18. ARCHIVED-Splinterr Guest

    Wow! This is definitley a bad thing. Guess i can say good buy to one shotting heroics for my leveling plan like i did in DoF
  19. ARCHIVED-Persis4 Guest

    We all knew Rangers were overpowered, so why didn't they just nerf them instead of bringing us all down?


    Orontes

    47 Assassin of Unrest
  20. ARCHIVED-Robbpilot Guest

    Yeah, caught by friendly fire on this one it appears. With this change, it seems like they don't need to limit the max number of targets our CA's can affect now. If they are hitting us, let us hit them back now please.

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