Dear EQ2 Players, I am brand new to EQ2. After 3+ years of World of Warcraft, I have made the leap of faith and decided to switch my hobbies from World of Warcraft to Everquest 2. I cannot describe how excited I am about the upcoming adventures and look forward learning, exploring and playing EQ2. I have spent probably a dozen of hours reading and studying the classes and tried playing a few to level 10 or so to see various styles. I believe the scout class is the class for me. Out of the four scout types, I have narrowed it down to two - Swashbuckler and Brigand. I was wondering what you would recommend for a new player. Here is what I know (please correct me if any of what is below is wrong). Swashbucklers and brigands have the easiest time soloing out of all scout classes. Swashbucklers and brigands do less DPS (by a noticeable margin) than Assassins or Rangers but bring more utility (group and solo). Swashbucklers and brigands are welcome in groups as DPS/Utility and generally do not have hard time finding groups. Swashbucklers and brigands have end-game raiding potential for their DPS/Utility and have a well-defined raid role (DPS + Debuff). Swashbucklers vs. Brigands Less stuns. Less useful debuffs. Better ability to take blows (due to offensive debuffs). SIGNIFICANTLY better ability to do damage to multiple targets. (What am I missing? What else distinguishes the classes?) Brigands vs. Swashbucklers More stuns. More useful debuffs. Worse ability to take blows (due to defense debuffs). SOMEWHAT better ability to do damage to single targets. (What am I missing? What else distinguishes the classes?) Questions: Who is easier to solo? (Brigands can stun lock heroics. Can Swashbucklers stunlock heroics? Brigands do poorly on multiple mob encounters. Can Swashbucklers do well on multiple mob encounters consistently?) Which class is cheaper to outfit? (Since armor/weapons will probably be the same, I am asking which class has generally cheaper Adept III CAs.) Who is more wanted in groups? Who is more wanted in raids? (I understand that brigands are more wanted in raids due to the ability to do dispatch rotation.) What are your final thoughts on brigand/swashbuckler as a 1-80 class for a new player? ANY OTHER [I cannot control my vocabulary]/THOUGHTS? (And yes, I realize swashbucklers have way cooler hats. ) I know it's a lot of questions but I would appreciate the [I cannot control my vocabulary]. (There may be other new players out there who have the same questions and this would be very helpful to have.) Thank you in advance! EQ2noob
......you missed the two most obvious and dramatic differences between Swashbucklers and Brigands: - Swashis have THE stylish Feathered Fedora - brigs pretend to be the Hamburgler - Swashis bring the SEXY! - brigs bring the macdonalds hamburgers (meh) .....and of course the real difference: brigs = wannabe Swashis
"Swashbucklers and brigands do less DPS (by a noticeable margin) than Assassins or Rangers but bring more utility (group and solo)." false. player skill > class. if you consider "a noticeable margin" like say 100-200 dps ZW (on a 3-4k ZW parse for you both) then you could be right... but they offer absolutely nothing to a raid/group in terms of debuffs or utility, so 1-200 dps is just meaningless when your raid is parsing 50-60k. if your guild takes 5 min between pulls, yes they will prob beat you every time since their refresh times on every major attack are back up. if you chain pull, and you know how to play a swash and have a decent group, you will own them zw. assassins are a dieing breed since the dps is very close between the classes and they simply dont bring anything except personal dps. rangers are dead.
On the Swash/Brig (rogues) vs Ranger/Assassin (predators) DPS topic: - rogues DPS is more auto attack based (especially swash), while predators are more CA based. - rogues have more steady DPS (see above), while predators are more DPS burst oriented. Swashies have good bursts end game though, with onguard / insight (can't say for brig, never played end game). >> Zone wide a good rogue in a good group ( = not slacking group) should beat a predator IMO.
Brigs get thugs. Not sure how good they are though. I got owned twice by a Brig yesterday. Stun locked and dead. Couldn't even fight back. Bummer. I recently checked the highest melee hitters and it was all Assassins, and a couple rangers.
Well in chatting with people I keep hearing how much they love Brigands because they have Dispatch... Do we have anything that compares? (sorry if this is a newb question) Kilbane
Swashbucklers and brigands do less DPS (by a noticeable margin) than Assassins or Rangers but bring more utility (group and solo). false,,,,,,,thats the kicker,,,rogues have it all and can do as much dps or more, then an Assassin, depends on tons of things so why be a predator? you got me!
Kilbane@Antonia Bayle wrote: Our equivalent to Dispatch is Lung Puncture.. which is a large -offensive skill debuff that can be kept up at all times. We do have our own mitigation debuffs too, which are not as powerful as Dispatch (which can be kept up I believe ~15 seconds every 3 minutes?) but are the same amounts as the other mitigation debuffs of the Brigand. In short, mitigation wise: Melee mitigation debuffs: Swashy = Brigand, with exception of Dispatch Magic Mitigation debuffs: Brigand has better since their rake line debuffs all magic, while we just have a major magic and divine mit debuff in our snare. Dispatch helps the raid do more DPS for it's duration. On the flip side, Swashbucklers Lung Puncutre helps the tank take a lot less damage at all times. Your main tank group will definitely notice it, as well as our hate transfer increases the tank's hate, allowing the DPS in the raid to go more to the hilt without worrying about aggro. The unique thing about Swashbucklers really is their offensive debuffs and Hurricane. Our AOE damage is only surpassed by Warlocks and Paladins using Consecrate. Swashbuckler burst damage comes from Inspiration and En Garde auto-attack damage while Brigand burst damage comes from Double Up and Dispatch and combat arts.
didn't want to rewrite ecerything and post links so I copy and pasted. Here the main differance between a swash and a brig. We debuff different things, we have spells for def, mig, and a few that deal in divine, and magic. Theirs also attacks that decrease int, and agi, as well as attack dps, and the recast timers and a bunch of other crap. Basicly we make it hell for a mob on their stats and attacks. Brigs basically cripple of mob and stun it alot, knock it back all that stuff. Some of their spells are from behind but mostly they're up front. Thier job is to make the mob as helpless as a newborn baby to to grps attacks. Which is why they hurt so damn much in pvp. Basically the 2 classes are the same except the way they do damage and what the attacks do. I like the swash because the skills seem more spaced to me where I can work them around into patterns. With my brig it always seemed like all of his skills were jumbled in there and I was just hitting 1 after the other. The main differance takes place later on in the start of end game. A swash is basically an attacking psychopath as they get different spells to incease attack speed and dmg. Inspired Daring (Experience) Grants the swashbuckler an opportunity to strike for additional piercing damage with every melee attack. Hurricane (Scribed) Grants the swashbuckler a chance to attack all enemies in a frontal arc with every normal comat attack. Ingenious Finesse (Scribed) Increases the combat attack damage and speed of the swashbuckler. Spurious Bravado (Scribed) Grants the swashbuckler a chance to become overconfident with bravado when engaging in melee combat. While under the Bravado proc effect, the swashbuckler's attack rate and hate generated is increased. However, if the swashbuckler takes any damage, then all Bravado proc effects end (not the original maintained augmentation). En Garde (Scribed) Almost every time an enemy parries, blocks, ripostes, or deflects the swashbuckler, the swashbuckler is granted another chance to attack. Almost every time the swashbuckler parries, ripostes, or blocks an enemy, the swashbuckler is granted another chance to attack. Brigs Crafty Deceit (Scribed) Increases the attack speed of the brigand and grants a chance to knock down an enemy with every successful melee attack. Double Up (Scribed) An attack that repeats the brigand's previous 2 seconds of certain combat arts on the target. Band of Thugs (Scribed) Calls upon a group of thugs that bully the enemies of an encounter for a limited duration. Deceitfulness (Scribed) Increases DPS of caster - On a s uccessful melee attack 20% chance to knockdown target -- blurs vision --throws back target --stuns target --does not affect epic targets Basically at the end game both classes get increase attacking speed spells and such but the swashies offer alot more to him than the brigs do. However They need to be used a certain way to get the most dmg out of them in their timers. It will make the differance of parsing up at the top or not at all.
Ok first off welcome to EQ2 =) Ok here is how i see it having both classes. Swash is a little harder to solo with then a brig do to less stuns and whatnot. -Brigs can do great Dmg constintly i never run out of CA's to use. i havent gotten that far into lvls with my swashy so i am not sure how they work in terms of CA's. -Brigs have better mitigation Debuffs then a swashy which will help you and others kill the mob ALOT faster. There major mit Debuff is Dispatch the first form you get at 55 at Adept3 it debuffs close to 3k mit vs all atks. at lvl 75 you get another that at adept3 can debuff over 4k mit vs all atks. they can use this every 42 sec if specced right. -Brigs can Stun a mob for up to about 30 sec if speced right and timed right. -Brigs only get one AE. -Brigs as far as i can tell can take hits just fine i have a Defensive stance and a offensive stance. ( i always use defensive stance while soloing it seems to help alot) -Brigs get a cool pet that does ALOT of DPS at lvl 65 called band of thugs its an encounter pet with a 4 min recast. ( i use this on named mostly, Or if i am in a pinch and need to get a mob down ASAP.) -As far as DPS compared to other Scouts i have yet to be beatten by another scout class the same lvl as me. and few lvl 80. i am currently lvl 76. If you know what CA's to use when you can pound out some serous DPS. Make sure to you all your poisons, Str potions, and so on. i also like to keep out of combat HP and power regen totems with me all the time reduces my downtime drastically. also the run speed totems are awesome. -As far as DPS for swashys go i havent gotten that high yet so i cant compare it to my brig as of yet =/ but i am guessing its about the same. considering they do get less CA's even with there AE i would think it adds up to be about the same. but i will be testing that ASAP =) well hope i helped a little and GL deciding.
Well figure it out, a brig will prolly win on a single mob from what I understand, but a swashy will OWN a brigand on multi mobs. I was in a group with two level 80 warlocks and myself a level 80 swashy. I used wis and magic debuff poisons for the warlocks bene (as there was two of them and one of me), and I was consistently beating them on parse. We were in Sebilis with all the nice adds. Hurricane is SWEET!! It is an auto attack AOE. We get two blue aoe's, that if you time between auto attacks, you can do insane damage.
My take is that, after all is said and done, you can't say one is better then the other. There are differences, but maybe more then the counterparts of any other class the swashy and brig are pretty darn close in their abilities. You'll see some stark differences when you start comparing illusionists to coercers, necros to conjys, etc., but no one is going to be disappointed whether they play a swash or a brig. As has been pointed out, they both have their strengths...but no real weaknesses (compared to each other). What I see are the biggest differences is that, generally speaking, swashies debuff offense and brigs debuff defense; swashies better aoe, brigs better stuns. Desirability in raids is the same: brigs for their dispatch/dps, swashies for their hate transfer/dps. (Personally, I think swashies have a slight edge in dps but I'm biased And speaking of Dispatch, I want to point out that maybe the biggest misconception in the game is that brigs have better debuffs then the swashy. What the brigs have is a more noticeable debuff in Dispatch. You can look at a parse and see how dps is affected. But is anyone going to notice that the mob is doing significantly less damage because of Lung Bleed or Eye Point for example? No one is going to notice that the tank didn't die because of the swashy's debuffs.
Who is easier to solo? (Brigands can stun lock heroics. Can Swashbucklers stunlock heroics? Brigands do poorly on multiple mob encounters. Can Swashbucklers do well on multiple mob encounters consistently?) Swashies are better for multi mob encounters solo because of their mez ability, and their ability to do damage to all mobs in a front arch with Hurricane. I can take down two RoK ^ mobs down by mezzing one and fighting the other, or just by beating on one of them while doing periodic damage to his friend. By the time I am done with the first the second is already half dead. IMO both brigs and swashies have the same toughness. On single targets, both classes pwn, but brigands certainly have an edge due to their massive debuffs and their stuns. Which class is cheaper to outfit? (Since armor/weapons will probably be the same, I am asking which class has generally cheaper Adept III CAs.) They are both the same. We both need the same loams. The brigand epic is easier. The swashy epic is a nightmare. It could have changed though with the Pirate Jones nerf. Who is more wanted in groups? In groups, swashies get hate xfer and AoE dps(Hurricane, Swathe and Lucky Ploy), which is a major boon to the tank since its harder for a tank to keep aggro in a standard group than in a raid imo. Brigands have several ally temp buffs they can use as well to help with survivability and whatnot, where as swashies only have hate xfer as a "other player" buff. I have outparsed brigands, but I have been outparsed by brigands as well. It depends on the skill of the player, but it goes to show we are even for dps. Who is more wanted in raids? (I understand that brigands are more wanted in raids due to the ability to do dispatch rotation.) Yes and No. That all depends on the MT group. Swashies primary role is hate xfer. At level 64(?) we get a master 2 hate xfer that xfers 19% hate to the tank, and we have blame blade with xfers a portion of your hate from that attack to the tank, and uh.. sleight of hand... yah. But if a swashy is not in the MT or secondary tank group he's good for dps and thats about it, at which point you'd be better off with a brigand in his place. Granted tho, swashies tend to rise up to the top of the parse on zonewide. What are your final thoughts on brigand/swashbuckler as a 1-80 class for a new player? Both classes dps at the same level. But if you want an easy solo game, and you want to pwn people in duels, Brigand. If you want a slightly more challenging solo game, and pwn everyone else except brigands in duels, Swashy. Both are wanted in groups and both are wanted in raids, with a swashy being passed over for a brigand if they already have enough hate xfer. That's my observations anyway. If I am full of ****, someone point it out for me, otherwise thats the answers to the best of my knowledge.
