New Guild Halls...too expensive

Discussion in 'General Gameplay Discussion' started by Vunder, Jun 14, 2016.

  1. suka Well-Known Member

    we shouldn't be discussing other games (Star Citizen or any other one) indepth on these forums- especially since they derail the threads. to mention one in passing is one thing, but when people start actively promoting another game and telling us all of the details it becomes fairly obvious they are trying to derail the thread - among other things

    back to the subject at hand.

    I think yes, it is expensive. however, i don't have to buy it. the way i see microtransactions in games (or macrotransactions) is that as long as they are for something i don't actually have to have in order to play the game and enjoy it, they are fluff. they help support the game.

    when transactions in the marketplace become something you have to have to play the game or open lock boxes ( keys you can't get in the game but you find the boxes there) then that game goes too far and i won't play along. if it gets to a point where i can't ignore it and go on playing because i really need the item being sold, then i am gone. until then, i see it as something that goes along with gaming.

    yes we need to let them know when something gets too high for most of us - but there will always be a few items for the whales to buy - after all if they weren't, the whales would stop being interested. that doesn't mean the rest of us have to buy them.

    if anyone was paying attention, they got the message and assured us there would be more halls coming out later and some - not all- would be cheaper. that was a direct response to our requests.

    there will always be some things in the game as well as the marketplace that is aimed at people who have millions of status points, endless plat and deep pockets. that is just part of marketing. i figure i am not their target market for these items and look for stuff more in my range. after all- they are pixels and i don't really need them.
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  2. Xakrein Well-Known Member

    People have made all kinds of comparisons (shoes/handbags/cars/art, and numerous others) in an attempt to help articulate their position. I believe that people on both sides of the discussion have made mention of other games, including EQ1. It is worth acknowledging that EQ1 is another game, despite the DBG ownership. Of all the comparisons someone could make, it would he hard to argue against comparisons to other video games being more valid, rather than comparisons to handbags. And interestingly enough, comparisons to other games has revealed a wide range of accepted practices in gaming communities.

    Because of this, I believe that discussing how other games handle their cash shops, is a legitimate part of the discussion at hand. And if someone on either side of the debate tries to imply a link between cash shop practices and game popularity, discussing both is an entirely valid, and natural part of the thread on hand. Of course, there needs to be a line. If someone is simply saying "<insert game> is amazing, and everyone should go play it", rather than making relevant comparisons, or addressing a point another user made, the line may have been crossed.

    I almost thought I wrote the quote above. Though I am curious, do you recall where a DBG Dev assured us that future Guild Halls will be cheaper? I remember reading something about there being more halls coming in the future, and some of them wont be on the Marketplace (obtain via in-game means), but I do not recall reading any guaranteed commitment to future pricing. I would like to read it, if you can remember where it was?
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  3. suka Well-Known Member

    because of the talk from the devs about the halls to begin with and the talk of more coming out, and because of this thread, it stands to reason that there should be some cheaper ones offered- whether through ingame means or on the marketplace. any ingame means would definitely be perceived as cheaper. as to how much cheaper,. we will have to wait and see what they come up with
    Prissetta likes this.
  4. Xakrein Well-Known Member

    Oh, I see.

    When you said: "they got the message and assured us there would be more halls coming out later and some - not all- would be cheaper. that was a direct response to our requests.", I thought that you meant a Dev at DBG had gone on the record, assuring us that cheaper (DBC price point) guild halls will be released on the market place, because of some feedback about the 40,000 DBC price point.

    As for Guild Halls to be released in the future, Kander made the post about upcoming Guild Halls earlier in this thread:

    I would be surprised if DBG made plans for regular Guild Hall releases, only 2 days after some people voiced concerns about the price point of the newest Guild Halls. I suspect the plans were already made, and those plans already included the various means of acquisition. If Kander is willing to confirm, one way or the other, please do! :)

    On a side note, the notion that a new hall obtained via in-game means would be perceived as cheaper, is not that simple. It would depend on what access requirements exist. For example, what if a new hall could only be purchased by a guild that had flawless achievement kills on all relevant current tier raid content (guild raid achievement), and the status costs were so high that guilds of 30+ have to routinely farm for status. Would that still be perceived as cheaper?

    Unless I have missed one of their posts, the only thing I seen the Devs (Kander) assure us, is more halls are coming, and some can be earned through game play. Nothing was assured regarding how "cheap" they will be.
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  5. suka Well-Known Member

    you know, i think on this thread you have been mostly argumentative- arguing with each person who has posted. that is something that keeps a lot of people from posting. i don't think i want to indulge you further. think what you want. i prefer to be optimistic about the game.
  6. Arielle Nightshade Well-Known Member

    I don't think selling a couple $400 guild halls would be success, and $800 can't possibly be a profit. We haven't seen sales figures - meaning numbers of $400 guild halls sold, not complete sales breakdowns. Not that they are going to show us that, but I'm thinking if they've sold a bunch, there would be a self-congratulatory post about what an awesome item it is and how popular it was. If they haven't sold very many, it probably wouldn't be posted because that entire thread would be "HA WE TOLD YOU!"....

    I'm hoping it's the second one. Not because we don't want DBG to be successful - we do. Having items that are THAT high ticket is, IMO, probably not the way to go, and as other posters have said, to me indicates a trend direction that we'd hate to see.

    If this item is meant to be a group purchase, I think more thought needs to go into the parameters of it. Many questions have brought up good points: how is ownership decided when it's a RL cash purchase? What does happen when the guild breaks up? I think these things need to be spelled out in some kind of 'deed' for the property, if they are going to insist on offering it. That, and more care needs to go into the construction.

    Although I hope an item like this doesn't become more of a trend, I'd have to say if you wanted me to be interested in buying it you'd have to offer a more polished product and have to had thought it over a little. I have a bigger expectation from an expensive item than I do from one that costs $20, obviously. It's not a matter of poor vs. rich, it's a matter of reasonable value. I've bought whole servers in other games.
  7. suka Well-Known Member

    yeah i have a distinct problem with the guild ownership issue. if everyone puts in, does it go to the leader if the guild breaks up? or with the leader if he or she leaves? i can understand the staff not wanting to deal with such headaches, but they are opening a can of worms with group purchases and are trying to avoid any responsibility for it. this can mean a lot of hard feelings, people leaving the game, and some major issues if not resolved and handled carefully.
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  8. Arielle Nightshade Well-Known Member

    That, and I have a couple of lawyers in the family that just loooove figuring out the ins and outs of intellectual property. I can't be the only one. I'd think they would want to protect themselves against that even being a thought of an issue.
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  9. Abasinolanam Active Member

    I think for this to be successful the way it was intended the reports will have to be done much later in the year. Despite all the hate for these halls I don't believe for a minute that DBG intended individuals to shell out $400 to buy a hall (although I am sure they expected a handful of people to do it, and they have.) If guilds with many members continue to donate the tickets one per month they will eventually get the halls and then they will have succeeded in their plan.

    I think you may be thinking too much about the ownership. Think about it this way: if a large guild buys a domain name and pays for hosting of a website plus ventrilo/teamspeak server, etc. they could easily spend $400 over a few years. When the guild disbands does anybody have ownership of any of it? Not easily. One could say the person that registered that domain may be the owner but it's possible that person put the least amount of money if any at all. I used to donate in the tune of $30/year for maintenance of various pieces of a guild website. This is really no different.
  10. Abasinolanam Active Member

    The added expensive halls are a diversified product. There is no evidence of "higher prices on everything." If/when that happens I'll be the first one to join the ranks of complainers. But even though I am not buying the hall myself, I applaud the diversification of guild hall options. If this had come out years ago when I was in an active guild I know we would have all pitched in a little to get the hall.

    I think part of the issue with the price is that most the guilds these days are individuals so there's the assumption that somebody is going to pay $400, when in reality nobody should be paying more than $10-$15 of their own money for their guild to get the hall. If the intention was for $400 in a single sale they wouldn't have broken it down so much.
  11. suka Well-Known Member

    i find one thing wrong with your logic. by legal standards, the person who bought the domain and registered it is the legal owner unless they have a binding contract to the contrary. ownership of a domain can easily be transferred. when all is said and done, if the guild disbands, the owner of the domain has the right to start another website or even continue that one on that domain.

    it is not so clear cut in the game. guild halls can't be transferred and it would seem that whomever actually buys the hall would be the owner. there would be no way to prove that any other member of the guild would have any right to proclaim ownership. you can't go by how many tickets a person buys because those can be sold on the broker

    and there is more at issue than just the price. people are worried about setting precedents, the possibility of someone buying the hall and then leaving and taking it with them, and the question of ownership. there are good reasons for this. you may have all pitched in to buy a hall in the game. buying one on the marketplace is a bit different.

    if you and i pitch in to buy a prestige house, it is all good and fine to say we both own it. but in reality, the one who ends up with it if we part ways will be the one who paid for it with their account on the marketplace.
  12. Slipshod Active Member

    I have a GREAT idea! How about letting us buy special Forums tokens that, when used, allow US to lock a thread that seriously needs it?
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  13. Xakrein Well-Known Member

    What is being paid for?

    Guild Tickets: Skyshrine Capital Guild Hall (1)
    Unpacking this crate will increment the Skyshrine Capital Guild Hall guild achievement by (1). Completing the Skyshrine Capital Guild Hall guild achievement will allow your guild to purchase the Skyshrine Capital Guild Hall from the Antonica or Commonlands guild portals if your guild is level 30.

    It is clearly stated that unpacking a Guild Ticket will increment the relevant guild achievement. I hope that anyone in a guild understands how guild achievements work, and is aware that guild achievements are not refundable or transferable.

    The description makes it clear that having the achievement will allow a guild to purchase a guild hall. Therefore, contributing toward the achievement is not buying the hall, just like me buying ToT is not buying Kraletus loot.
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  14. Castegyre Well-Known Member

    Maybe they should give little trophies for participating to everyone who contributes tickets to a guild hall so that everyone feels like they got something? Ownership is still going to belong to the guild leader so everyone else in the guild is potentially screwed if personality conflicts or stability in people's participation arise... wait, who am I kidding? That sort of thing never happens in MMO guilds, right? Certainly not in a game where you see less people logging in on practically a daily basis.

    No, people should get participation trophies to remind them of the good feelings helping to throw $400 at a questionable purchase with nothing to show for it gave them. In fact, this could work out well for the company! After all, they need to earn money, right? I can see it now:

    "LFGuild to cont 5+ ticket for troph & achiev. PST Thanks".

    You have received 1 Ticket Participation Trophy! 98 more to go to unlock Gold Plated Orca Placard achievement.

    Yay!, wait, crap. It can only be placed in guild halls... :(


    What irks me about this the most, even more than some of the poor arguments from the victims defending everything, is the way these things are being done. I feel the prices for these halls are ridiculous, but whether it's $4 or $4,000, the chain of events and implementation is so shady it seems more the real danger to me.
  15. Kari Well-Known Member

    Is there any difference between the Highkeep guild hall in the cash shop and the one you get from farming Highkeep Contested? We got the one from farming when it was first released and are having a huge problem with lag. Members on lower end computers crash regularly and even on the high end computers the tool tips don't work. Are the purchased ones working any better?
  16. Xakrein Well-Known Member

    High Keep and Highhold are different zones, but the similar name can easily cause some confusion.

    Highhold is the castle up on the mountain in Phantom Sea.
    High Keep is the dungeon zone in Vesspyr Isles
    Kari likes this.
  17. Belenos Well-Known Member

    Please stop using that word before you make me sick. My stomach just will not stand it anymore!
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  18. Arielle Nightshade Well-Known Member

    I totally see your point. I think one of the things that's annoying about this item is how tone deaf it is. Whether intentionally or not, it's aimed at just a few people shelling out a high price to buy something that doesn't really have much value (at this point...that may change if they do some work on it)

    You say, yourself, 'if this had come out YEARS AGO when I was in an active guild...(etc)" that you would have purchased it. The trend now is smaller family and friends guilds. Many guilds exist with one person and their alts because everyone else has quit. I think gamewide there are only a few large guilds, and I would bet real money that the ones with a huge membership have members that haven't logged in for years. So who is supposed to buy it?

    After many posts, I think it just boils down to a lack of understanding of the player base and the current social aspect of the game...and that's what ticks me off most of all, because that understanding is so easily remedied, if they'd just look and pay attention.
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  19. suka Well-Known Member

    the one is the cash shop is High Hold from AOM. the one you earn in game is High Keep from TOV. two different zones and halls
    Kari likes this.
  20. Griffon Lady Well-Known Member

    At which point it will already be too late.
    Belenos likes this.