New character models

Discussion in 'General Gameplay Discussion' started by Sturmlocke, Feb 17, 2022.

  1. Sturmlocke Linux enthusiast playing EQ2 via Proton.

    I knew that was going to be brought up somewhere down the line. Your char just looks better than mine :p Uploaded a few of my own updated char pics on the first page.
  2. ttobey Makes the Monsters Move

    Ideally we would set up one, get the pipeline clean and outsource most of the work. Just getting done what I had said we wanted to do is probably in 200 K range for an outsource company.
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  3. ttobey Makes the Monsters Move

    And then someone has to decide, OK hundreds of thousands of dollars for a cosmetic upgrade, will we ever recoup the costs on this? Those are decisions made not at an Animator level!
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  4. Sturmlocke Linux enthusiast playing EQ2 via Proton.

    Oh yeah, 200K is a lot of cash. ROI is completely understandable, that's up for someone else to decide. How did this decision turn out to be on EQ1? Was it a worthy ROI or was the upgrade to the new player models, graphics and more not worth it in the end? Or how did the upgrade for old cities and zones go for EQ2, was this a good or bad ROI move?

    I wonder how many of us would back you guys on an idea like this. Now that we have a number, if you'd put up a kickstarting item on the marketplace and start a poll in the game, I'd most certainly be willing to spend a dime or two for this cause. Alternatively, if this upgrade were to be introduced via a new expac, for example, I wouldn't mind paying ten or twenty bucks more for the expac, if it includes an upgrade to the things we have discussed here so far. Heck, I have been ordering food for us lately and spent more on that than on an entire year worth of EQ2 subscription. The only thing that would be important to me, is that we get to see a realtime proof of concept of some kind, before the changes are introduced. Ppl don't like surprises, especially of this magnitude (old SWG vet here).

    I really don't know what it is, but nice looking chars are important to me. While the world around our current set of chars has been changing and evolving, update after update, expac after expac, introducing new and jaw dropping sceneries, zones, features, wildlife, mounts, armor, soundtracks and much more, our chars are stuck in the age of 2004. Even our bigger brother, Everquest 1, has gotten some well deserved character upgrades here and there. The first thing that new players get introduced to are our chars - it's the very first thing that they see when starting anew. And as we all know, first impressions are important. These characters are our digital souls when playing, they represent us in this vast world.
  5. Roark O'Ruairc New Member

    So, would a $10-$20 character model enhancement pack be a realistic option?
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  6. ttobey Makes the Monsters Move

    Well the problem with that in my opinion, if we did a character upgrade pack and say 25% of the people bought it, there's 75% who didn't and we are right back to supporting old models, soga models and new models. It would have to be a complete redo and wipe of the old ones to give us any benefit internally.
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  7. Sturmlocke Linux enthusiast playing EQ2 via Proton.

    That is a risky move indeed. A few simple mistakes here and there, and ppl will ragequit over it. A delicate topic it is, extremly delicate. And how about adding the cost of these upgrade on top of the price for the standard edition expac? Would that work out better in your opinion or are ppl picky about expac prices?
  8. ttobey Makes the Monsters Move

    Way back, 100 years ago when I was on EQ1, right after Planes of Power, we wanted to redo player models, most people felt Luclin models missed the mark. The characters we were working on were great, really felt like upgrades to the original models.
    That fell through though,which is too bad, there were some great models in there. I have animations of the troll somewhere in an archived folder!
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  9. Sturmlocke Linux enthusiast playing EQ2 via Proton.

    You do? Can you share those animations with us? I don't recall ever seeing that in the past. Yeah, personally I like the new models that were introduced via the Luclin update, but I get why ppl prefer the old ones too. The community in EQ1 is much older than what we have in EQ2, they have gotten used to what they have and love.
  10. ttobey Makes the Monsters Move

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  11. MightyMeaghan Well-Known Member

    holy crap that troll is way better than the Luclin troll.
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  12. Dude Well-Known Member

    Are they made way above that ... at the Principal Animator level?
  13. MightyMeaghan Well-Known Member

    I'd imagine you'd eventually recoup costs just on time saved on future projects, coupled with a whole bunch of new marketplace cosmetics like premium hairstyles and face textures.
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  14. Sturmlocke Linux enthusiast playing EQ2 via Proton.

    What he said, I agree. A shame these ideas got shutdown before you guys got a chance of implementing them. Were these animations ever shown to the EQ1 community? I believe a lot of EQ1 players didn't have a problem with the new character models (see links in my post further above), as they are unmistakably better than the vanilla chars, but the animation of the new Luclin models was a problem for some folks. Would like to see more, if you can find them. @Tom

    I agree. Bundle these changes with an expac, adjust the price of the expac accordingly in order to push that ROI, and then do what Mighty suggested = sounds like a plan. I know for a fact how much ppl, especially women, love to customize their chars. I'm married to one of those ppl. If these ideas ever turn out to be a good ROI, you can send me 10 cents per sale, ha! :D
  15. Kattt Well-Known Member

    Holy moly...some awesome critters in there! My favorite is that blue dragon! Love Love that! The troll is very cool. His body reminds me just a little of hulk. If you enlarged his head just a little to match body size (or vice versa,) that would be an awesome model! He looks pretty bad ****. =)

    Most of all, thank you for sharing some of this behind the scenes stuff! It is sort of like watching "making of" stuff you watch for major motion pictures. Can we have more of that? =) Maybe as extras for collector's editions or some such? I think this type of thing would be engaging for players. It drew me in. heh
    I love seeing the process. A very nice treat!

    Thanks! =)
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  16. MightyMeaghan Well-Known Member

    They can't really attach it to an expac. The goal would be to get everyone onto the same set to reduce the amount of total skeletons and models they had to support. But when upgrading, if they built in a system for premium appearance upgrades people would buy em.
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  17. Kattt Well-Known Member

    Love what you've done here, Sturmlocke. For some reason your text is reaaaally teeny. Had to strain these old eyes. lol
    Your touchups are awesome. I would LOVE these kinds of flowing and loose hairstyles! It makes a big impact without even needing to change anything on the face.

    Maybe I missed or misunderstood something in the conversation, but how hard would it be to add hairstyles without changing the facial features or overhauls of models? Or can that be done?

    My biggest question when it comes to art, is can anything be done about the weird outlines (looks like the framework) showing on plant life house items...sometimes even zone art? (In other words, for example, a leaf shows this odd shadowing/lighting around edges that looks like where the outside cropped area of whole square or rectangle would be. Sometimes it flickers too.) If that makes sense. It seems like weird bug. Also, water house items have this strange vanishing/rotating 90 degree bug going on. Like from one angle, half the water vanishes and stands up on side. If that makes sense. If you don't know what I am talking about, I can get you some screenshots of both issues. They hurt the aesthetics and immersion for me and others at times.

    Love the hairstyles! So wish for additions like that.

    And by the way, love this conversation. It's a nice casual discussion between a developer and players, and it gives a good feeling about the game. Though I know you guys (devs) don't always have the time to do this, it is so appreciated when you do. Good vibes.
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  18. MightyMeaghan Well-Known Member

    I think that's been commented on in the past I seem to recall someone saying that it's a huge pain in the ***..
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  19. Sturmlocke Linux enthusiast playing EQ2 via Proton.

    Oh, they can't? Oh wow, I must be getting old then :D Back in the old days, you'd see stuff like this on the back of an expac box, saying something like: "upgraded and improved character models and zones, jump in today and find out what it's all about!". I'm open to everything tbh, even if sold separately via premium appearance items in the shop. Either way, I fully agree, it could very well generate enough cash in order to recoup the initial cost and more.

    Edit: After reading through this again, I think we misunderstood eachother. By "attaching" it to an expac, I mean getting that ROI back through the expac and advertising it through the expac, but giving the new models to everyone in the end. The expac would just advertise or market the change, but everyone receives the update. If you pair that with a future marketplace additions (face skins, hair styles and more) = $$$. At least in theory.

    I agree with pretty much everything you just said. :) And thank you. I could create some more ofc, I actually want to, but we just became parents again about a month ago and our kids are keeping us busy, busy. This is how it should be though, open but respectful communication between players and devs.

    Edit: I just realised that the EQ2 engine even supports moving hair. I completely forgot about that. Imagine the kind of hairstyle you see in this thread + giving it some movement when riding, swimming through water, jumping, you name it.

    We're all only human after all.

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  20. ttobey Makes the Monsters Move

    The problem (one of the problems) with long hair with our current system is there are no plater character hair joints. The Hair has to to be weighted to the head, neck and probably clavicles and waist3. You wind up with hair that looks more like a hair helmet and really clips all over the place when they start animating. It would sort of work if I could weight to all 4 of those joints, but currently eq2 only allows for a mesh vertice to be weighted to two joints. So The dangly parts below the ear would go to maybe r_clav and neck, but wouldn't move if the heads turning, it just gets pretty messy really fast.
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