Can we stop being brain dead Devs and not nerf Tank CAs when it should be scout ones being nerfed if it’s needed. Tanks have taken what… 3? You don’t see any tanks doing 1trill or higher, so why?
I won't comment on the exact numbers each class is doing. From my understanding, there's some genuine need for balancing there, but to answer your question broadly, tanks might be getting a nerf because their DPS is on-par with scouts, or closer to it than they intend. If fighters are supposed to be -- total rear pull numbers here -- 50% of a scout's DPS, they don't care that a scout is doing 1 trillion DPS when some fighters are doing, say, 750 billion DPS.
But don't who know that the taunts we have are supposed to make up the difference in holding aggro ? (just kidding)
I can see that being the case. But you have scouts doing 2+ trill on T1 and T2, while most tanks aren’t even close to that, probably 500-750B, they are balancing towards p2w not the average player. This is what I’m getting at.
Taunts worked when DPS toon damage was 1.5 to 2 of the fighter DPS. But now we are dealing with 5x to 20x. Taunts have simply not kept up with that. So, Hate Transfer, Snaps and the fighter's DPS determines if they hold aggro. Rangers, BLs and Brigand have no hate transfer options which doesn't help either As a guardian, only so much I can do with my DPS.
The only way I personally was able to keep up with Agro due to the ridiculous tank inclusion to the melee multiplier reductions was drastically upgrading my spells. Now I'm doing ALMOST as much damage as I did when at expert. It's a complete lunacy what has happened to tanks.
Firstly, the deafening silence in the fighter thread since the beta forums is a clear indication of where there priorities lie. They just don't care nor understand what to do with fighters. Second, anybody who chimes in here to say that tank dps is on par with T1 scouts then just excuse yourself from any thread about tanks because you clearly do not know how tanking works. Lastly, in addition to asking for an actual tank balance I have lost count as to how many times we proposed ideas to make tanks scale better with the bloated numbers people are doing these days with minimal risk of breaking the balance but nothing. Fervor does not apply to tank taunts, which at the bare minimum should be the starting point to address the rotting corpse of tanking that has been stinking up the game for almost a decade.
Tanking isnt exciting OR engaging. Its a cesspool of stand here for 25 minutes, target an add, and get stuck in a cage. Why the constant focus on forcing tanks to endure the absolute dumbest, most annoying mechanics in game? Tanking sucks. We cant even push a mediocre t1 on a parse anymore. We're pigeonholed into specific sets of gear with no regard to the broken agro mechanics this game has employed since RoK. You want more tanks? Stop making us absolute garbage, only necessary for bulwarks and getting hit for 54B damage while the mage next to you in the same group takes 1.2 from the same attack. Theres nothing challenging or interesting to that. Maybe I've done it too long, but I'm done with tanking as soon as I get another toon to resolve
My impression is that they're still congratulating themselves for fixing the tank class when they introduced bulwark. While I no longer play tanks (and was mediocre at best when I was), the tank fundamentals have not kept up with class/mob mechanics for the last 3--4 xpacs and it's sad. What's really sad is, as a healer, you hear ACT sound off telling you your tanks death save went off, but he died like 20 seconds ago.
everyone expects the tank to lead and know the strats so there is a lot of responsibility on the tank
Bulwark DID NOT help tanks Near as I can tell there are fewer tanks today that was the case when Bulwark was introduced.
Doing my personal best to destroy that narrative. I just show up and find what to target and let the group figure out the rest. Don't like it? Go find another tank available. Jokes on them!
Bulwark did not help tanks. All it did was make tanking more annoying. It never should have been put in the game unless their goal was to drive players away. Wipe the group because you click a button and then it canceled itself. Nobody wants to deal with that nonsense. Bulwark means less people playing tanks which means less groups forming to do content. People get frustrated at not finding a group so they log off and do other things. Sometimes never to come back. As for the current state of tanking, it is pretty bad. Bruisers in particular are in big trouble right now.
it's normal, he is the one who drives and directs the car on the highway of our chivalrous destiny..lol Seiously it.s normal have been like. This since day 1 I think that's what makes it so interesting. not only dps or heal, this secondary role is nice, you're the boss. after obviously if you have a group which has no idea of the approach of such or such boss, You have to pull out the secret weapon, patience.
Is it? Between an equally geared scout and fighter? I mean I tend to be undergeared compared to my DPS but as a monk they do a ****load more than I do. But yeah, undergeared and I don't have a lot of the buffs from past content some of them have. I also don't claim to be particularly great either though. Maybe diminishing returns would be the answer more so than a straight nerf, because keeping aggro is difficult enough for me as is for the highest geared DPS in our groups/raids since they tend to do about 10 times my damage. The best of our best are more like 15-20, and I don't feel like I'm a particularly bad monk or something. I do know an SK who does absolutely nutty DPS on the occasion I group with him but I have never actually checked ACT to see specifically what it's coming from. Like I know another SK that says she does more damage as long as she's tanking vs when she's not. So I dunno about the minutiae. Either way, in a general sense I don't think fighters need a DPS nerf. There may just be a few specific instances that need to be looked at and ask why those numbers are where they are instead of doing something across the board. Don't get me wrong, I love my class. I love monk tanking. I wish other games with monks (looking at you FFXIV) had monk tanking. I just absolutely love the concept. But I can still be critical, I think. PS: was this a stealth nerf? Not seeing it in the notes. Just wondering. My feelings above stand regardless though.
You don't have to be afraid to address me directly, bud. I said I wasn't going to comment on the exact numbers because I don't have them (not to mention they vary wildly from class to class and player to player). I'm not even trying to argue in favor of the nerf; I'm just trying to give some possible explanation as to why DBG is deciding to nerf tanks. There has to be some ideal ratio in their minds that tanks were exceeding, and the fact T1 scouts do a lot of damage (surprise, that's their job) is inconsequential to them. Also, you'll note I said scouts, not just T1 scouts, and I also said "or closer to it than they intend," meaning the T1 scouts could be doing 20x more DPS, and if DBG intends for T1 scouts to do 25x more DPS, tanks are getting nerfed. I don't work for DBG; I can't tell you what they're thinking. I can only speculate as to their reasoning, because I can't imagine they would just randomly nerf things without some reason, whether it's a good reason or otherwise. Frankly, I think they'd prefer to be doing nothing, so someone in their offices has to be saying that tank damage is higher than they want it to be. This seems like a good start. Frankly, I'm surprised it isn't already the case, but DBG never really fails to surprise me with their poor design choices. But I wonder if that's going to help any of the folks in this thread feel any better about the state of tanks, because it seems like they're all comparing themselves to DPS classes in terms of damage, which seems silly to do when that's not your role. Your role, I'd think, would be to survive as the boss hits you. An increased emphasis on mitigation (as a stat and as a general concept) would likely improve the sentiment surrounding tanking, as well as more focus on the generation of hate rather than the dealing of damage. You aren't a DPS. Stop trying to be one, and start focusing on the things that make you a tank that need fixing. Not that giving feedback will help, apparently. /shrug Like I said, I'm not going to comment on the exact numbers. I'm just trying to make sense of what DBG is doing. Arguably, that is a futile exercise, as what they're doing seems nonsensical.
It's not directly a nerf, that is, every tank plays differently, one is more offensive than the other defensive. It depends on which items he builds. Of course, if you rely more on mitigation and block than on items with WDB Reuse Speed Casting Speed or Ability Doublecast, it's clear that you're losing dps somewhere. But as I said, everyone plays differently and has a different view of things, and the skill level of the AA line also plays a role. The Main Problem in all Addons since Daybreak Join the Party is, we still miss a real Class Balance for all Classes and a Guy who have a Clue with item Mechanic. Look on Crafters you can Craft only more or fewer a full Tank Set for all Classes, its a Problem at all with understanding on a mechanic or loose in interesting.
