Need some stat analysis, please!

Discussion in 'General Gameplay Discussion' started by Sigrdrifa, Jan 20, 2023.

  1. Sigrdrifa EQ2 Wiki Author

    It's been several years since I have seen someone who knows the ins and outs of min/maxxing post an analysis of the various stats, how well they are working (or not working!), and listing stat caps. This is so not my forté... can some of you numbers gurus discuss stats for us a bit?
  2. Benj Well-Known Member

    • Health -> The number of hit points you have. If you hit zero, you're dead! This stat is increased by Stamina. Though important, you don't need to worry about your max health too much. If you have 8 points in Enhanced Vigor (Class Prestige Tree -> Second Row -> First Column), you probably have enough health.
    • Max Health % -> A percentage increase that applies to your "natural" Max Health. Note that some items increase Max Health directly and others increase Max Health by a percentage. If you had two items that each gave 25% Max Health, your total health would to 50% (25+25) higher than normal rather than 56.25% (1.25*1.25) higher. This stat is visible in the tooltip of the Health stat.
    • Power -> The number of power/mana points you have. If you hit zero, you can't cast most spells. This stat is increased by Strength (Fighters), Agility (Scouts), Intelligence (Mages), or Wisdom (Priests), depending on you class.
    • Max Power % -> Same as Max Health %, but for Power.
    • Speed -> A percentage increase to you base run speed. The most common source will be your mount, but many classes and races have run speed buffs as well.
    • Status -> The amount of status points you have, which function as a secondary currency. Some quests reward status, and some items can be bought/sold for status. Not really a stat, but it's shown on the Combat Stats page anyway.
    As a general note, these stats are almost entirely worthless. Autoattack damage has been nerfed so much that even ultra-maxxing these stats produces no significant value. You're better off gearing for caster stats, even as a traditionally-melee class.
    • DPS -> A modifier to autoattack damage that applies a diminishing returns curve. I don't remember the exact values (200=2x damage?). There is no hard cap.
    • Haste -> A modifier to autoattack speed that applies a diminsihing returns curve. At the hard cap of 125 Haste, your attacks hit twice as fast (and thus twice as hard over time).
    • Multi Attack -> A chance to autoattack two or more times on a single swing that applies a diminishing returns curve. I don't remember the exact values, but I think there is a hard cap of 300.
    • AE Autoattack -> A percentage chance to autoattack two or more enemies on a single swing. At the hard cap of 100%, each strike will hit multiple enemies. This one isn't too hard to cap out on in current content.
    • Strikethrough -> A percentage chance to negate an enemy's successful block check. At the hard cap of 100%, no enemy can block your autoattack.
    • Accuracy -> A percentage increase to your chance to hit an enemy with autoattack. I don't know if there's a cap.
    • Flurry -> A percentage increase to autoattack damage, calculated after all other modifiers have been applied.
    • Flurry Multiplier -> A percentage increase to autoattack damage, calculated after Flurry has been applied.
    • Weapon Damage Bonus -> A percentage increase to raw weapon damage (calculated before all other modifiers?). This stat has a hard cap (I don't know the value) that can be raised via Weapon Damage Bonus Overcap.
    Though these five are considered core stats, you don't have to think about them too much. The amount you get from gear and class buffs will be plenty. Consider adornments for these only if you have nothing else to pick.
    • Strength -> If you're a fighter, increases damage and maximum power. Otherwise, nothing.
    • Agility -> If you're a scout, increases damage and maximum power. Otherwise, nothing.
    • Stamina -> For all classes, increases maximum health and increases your chance to resist a spell.
    • Intelligence -> If you're a mage, increases damage and maximum power. Otherwise, nothing.
    • Wisdom -> If you're a priest, increases damage and maximum power. Otherwise, nothing.
    Most of these defensive stats are not worth deliberately taking. You'll get enough from gear and class buffs
    • Elemental -> Reduces incoming elemental damage based on a diminishing returns curve and the level of the opponent. The tooltip only shows values for level 125 enemies, which mostly makes the tooltip useless.
    • Noxious -> Reduces incoming noxious damage based on a diminishing returns curve and the level of the opponent. Again, the tooltip doesn't help much.
    • Arcane -> Reduces incoming arcane damage based on a diminishing returns curve and the level of the opponent. Tooltip is still not useful.
    • Mitigation -> Reduces incoming physical damage based on a (completely different) diminishing returns curve and the level of the opponent. Though clearly a tank stat, most fighters have less mitigation than non-fighter classes, due to group buffs that specifically exclude fighters from benefitting.
    • Avoidance -> Uses a hidden formula to increase the chance of blocking/parrying/dodging/riposting an enemy hit.
    • Block Chance -> A percentage increase to the effectiveness of the equipped shield. Note that 100% Block Chance does not mean you'll block every time. Instead, it means the equipped shield effectively has double its normal Protection stat. Block Chance also contributes to the Wary Protection buff for fighters.
    Here's where the good stats are, and where you'll actually want to think about min/max-ing.
    • Crit Chance -> A percentage chance that a spell or ability will have a critical hit. Values over 100% improve the chance at getting a Legendary, Fabled, or Mythical critical, instead of a normal critical. The amount you get from gear will usually be enough, though I've heard of some raiders taking Crit Chance elixirs when all other stats are capped.
    • Crit Bonus -> A percentage increase to damage from critically-hitting spells and abilities. It only applies to criticals, but everyone has more than 100% Crit Chance these days. Crit Bonus has a hard cap (I don't know the value) that can be raised via Crit Bonus Overcap. This is the big chase stat in RoR. Every time you get new gear, you should swap in and out pieces to maximize your effective Crit Bonus. If you're capped on Crit Bonus, swap in a piece of Overcap gear, and continue swapping until you are uncapped. Be sure to stay above whatever Resolve target you're working on, though. Crit Bonus is also affected by Combat Mitigation.
    • Potency -> A percentage increase to damage from spells and abilities. Though not quite a chase stat anymore, if you can safely swap a High-Resolve/Low-Potency item for a Low-Resolve/High-Potency item, you should. Potency is also affected by Combat Mitigation. In RoR, you should have at least 1 million Potency.
    • Fervor -> A percentage increase to damage from spells and abilities, applied after Crit Bonus and Potency. Fervor has a hard cap (200) that can be raised via Fervor Overcap. You should strive to have enough Fervor Overcap that you are no longer capped on this stat. Fervor is the go-to offensive stat, unless the alternative is a massive amount of Crit Bonus. Fervor is also affected by Combat Mitigation.
    • Resolve -> An unofficial (and arguably ineffective) version of "gear scores" from other games. If you have less Resolve than the enemy has Resolve, the difference is applied as a percentage decrease to your own hits and a percentage increase to the enemies hits. If you have 100 Resolve less than the enemy, you can't deal any damage at all. If you have more Resolve than the enemy, nothing special happens. This stat is used as the "height indicator" at the entrance to most dungeons. You can definitely go in if you are under that indicator, but it will be more difficult. Try to stay above the Resolve target of the zones you want to run, but feel free to swap pieces back down if it increases Crit Bonus or Potency.
    • Ability Mod -> A direct increase to spell and ability damage. Each spell has its own hard cap, which is 50% of what the spell can naturally do. Ability Mod is applied before Crit Bonus and Potency.
    • Hate Mod -> A percentage increase to hate from all sources. The hard cap is 300% (4x effective hate). This stat can also go negative, where it will decrease hate from all sources. The negative hard cap is -50% (half effective hate). Tanks should increase this as necessary to maintain aggro. Non-tanks will hit -50% very easily with a single Fading adornment.
    • Reuse Speed -> A percentage increase to the speed at which an ability resets. The hard cap is 100% (spells reset in half the usual time). Try to keep this at or above 100% at all times. Incandescent Adornment of Reuse (Superior) from the AoM expansion can be used if you don't have enough on gear.
    • Casting Speed -> A percentage increase to the speed at which an ability is cast. The hard cap is 100% (spells cast in half the usual time). Try to keep this at or above 100% at all times. Incandescent Adornment of Swift Casting (Superior) from the AoM expansion can be used if you don't have enough on gear.
    • Recovery Speed -> This stat has been removed from the game, but confusingly has not been removed from the stats window.
    • Spell Reuse Speed -> This stat has been removed from the game, but also has not been removed from the window.
    • Spell Doublecast -> Another stat that has been removed from the game but not the window.
    • Ability Doublecast -> A percentage chance to have a hostile ability apply its effect twice. This does not effect beneficial abilities like heals. Enemies in recent expansions have Ability Doublecast Avoidance, which reduces the effectiveness of Ability Doublecast. If you have 400% Ability Doublecast, and the enemy has 375% Ability Doublecast Avoidance, then you really have a 25% chance to cast twice. The hard cap is 100%, after considering Ability Doublecast Avoidance.
    Enemy Stats
    Enemies largely have the same stats as players, with one notable exception: Combat Mitigation.

    As mentioned above, Combat Mitigation can reduce the effectiveness of the player's Crit Bonus, Potency, and Fervor. Each of those three stats has a corresponding Mitigation stat. If you have 900 Fervor and the enemy has 850 Fervor Mitigation, then you really only have 50 Fervor. If you have 25000 Crit Bonus, and the enemy has 27000 Crit Bonus Mitigation, then you really have -2000 Crit Bonus, which actually reduces the damage of your hits. Unfortunately, these three Mitigations are hidden and unknowable without signficant experimentation. What we do know is Combat Mitigation, which secretly determines the other three. As a rule of thumb, try to have more Potency than the enemy has Combat Mitigation.

    Feel free to ask questions and to copy this information into the Wiki in a more organized format.
    Pixistik, Aethos, Sweety D and 3 others like this.
  3. Tyrval Active Member

    I'd be very interested to see other people's takes, especially ones that have done some actual rigorous testing in RoR, because I can only share some really basic tests and anecdotal performance. Would be thrilled if someone corrects me, but my very general rule of thumb:

    So the stuff all players know: Crit bonus, Potency, and Fervor are all multiplied against one another relative to the combat mitigation of the mob, with effectiveness acting as an uncapped base multiplier (much like fervor), primary stat acting as another base modifier, and ability mod being additive. And then Ability Double Cast being checked to see if an ability strikes twice, which is just the player's ADC - the mob's doublecast avoidance, as a % value.

    So I personally weight them as: 1 Crit Bonus : 30 potency, 1 Fervor : 1000 potency, 1 potency : 10,000 ability mod, 1 primary stat : 3 potency. However they aren't really multiplied against one another evenly due to combat mitigation of mobs, relative to content.

    In RoR, h1 mobs take extremely low damage if a player is below 26,000 crit bonus. Similarly, on solo mobs if a player is not using a familiar so is say in the 15k range or something, they won't be able to effectively damage any mobs in the expansion period, including solo mobs. Each 1k crit bonus above 26k, provided someone meets mitigation for potency and fervor, will probably equate roughly to a linear 10% damage gain.

    Floors for effective H1 performance I think are around a million potency (probably a bit less?) and 800ish fervor. So below 26k crit bonus, 1 mill potency, 800ish fervor and someone will likely do extremely little damage on the mobs and struggle to meaningfully contribute to any dps check. This does mean that an unlocked capped merc buff is pretty much seen as mandatory, as it would be difficult for someone to meet stat floors without it in crit bonus, fervor and double cast.

    Crit bonus is in a very different place in RoR than VOV, as all visible armor slots in VoV had crit bonus overcap, making capping crit bonus extremely unlikely but also limiting the highs people could reach. Now, the only initial items that have crit bonus overcap from tishan are primary, secondary, ranged. This means with familiar and just those 3 slots, a player is capping roughly at or slightly below the bare minimum point of effectiveness in h1s, so getting more overcap items is absolutely critical and it is very worth sacrificing resolve to do so if a character is still survivable. Some characters are hitting upwards of 39k crit bonus- I haven't had as much luck getting the rare overcap items and am only hitting 36ish, but the difference between 36k and 26k is a pretty massive gulf. A common mistake I've seen more casual players doing is not using the panda collector cyan runes for the 361 cbo, as the others do essentially nothing for them since they are capped on CB and melee mod is not meaningful.

    Because we lost a lot of sources of fervor and fervor overcap depending upon your resolve (like the great necks, brawl for all set, heart of luclin, passive torment rune), this does mean that fervor values are generally lower this expansion, and while cb and potency have raised, fervor has stayed the same or even a lower base starting point than VoV. This makes fervor buffs much stronger relative to the content, and also makes classes that buff fervor relatively more powerful. This also makes all the sources of fervor that a more casual player might miss a really big pain point. Not having new drink for higher overcap (with the AA to boost it), any mistake on panda runes, forgetting to click the new torment, not having the right merc/leveled merc/unlocked merc, not having the right mount gear, this is all going to be potentially crippling. A t1 dps with 600 fervor just is not going to do anything in an H1, and is probably going to get outdamaged significantly by a non dps class that does have proper buffs and adornments.

    Auto attack is quite good if and only if someone indexes incredibly heavily into it and they have specific buffs like EV from an enchanter, because you really need like 2k+ dps mod, 3k weapon damage/overcap, 50 melee mult, full flurry etc to make it strong. Otherwise it's a total trap and someone hurts their damage by trying to go into it.
    Sweety D, Athenia, Terrius and 3 others like this.
  4. Tanto Done, finished, gone.

    This paragraph really only applies to plate tanks. It should mention that avoidance and block work differently for brawlers. They can feel like low value stats for plate tanks due to the way uncontested block works for them and the low values they are able to achieve, but for brawlers, you must max your uncontested block stat (70%) in defensive stance. Last time I played this wasn't difficult to do, but it's worth keeping an eye on as you upgrade your gear. My info is one expansion old though, not sure if they changed WP to nullify uncontested block or something, wouldn't put it past them.

    Probably also worth noting that although autoattack is useless in terms of direct dps, you need to hit to trigger procs (or do you?). I always tried to keep my accuracy, strikethough, aoe auto etc slightly elevated in case this was true, obviously without sacrificing something that is definitely beneficial.

    Otherwise, nice post tbh. I had no idea hate mod could go to 300%.
  5. Gharyn Well-Known Member

    In the Beta update notes it says that they also lowered the negative hate cap to -150% but there's no sign of that in the regular update notes. Did this not go live?
  6. Benj Well-Known Member

    That was certainly true once, and I tried to keep my accuracy, strikethrough, and ae auto high. These days, I find it quite difficult to do so, and I get more benefit from adding extra crit bonus or even combat skills. I'm sure it depends on which abilities have procs. Most of my paladin procs only work on abilities, not on autoattack swings.

    Early in beta, they did lower the negative hate cap to -150%. Players soon found that it worked too well, making all hate management trivial. They silently reverted this change late in beta, and never implemented it on the live servers. Experiments confirm that the cap is still -50%.
    Tyrval and Gharyn like this.
  7. Sigrdrifa EQ2 Wiki Author

    They weren't playing warlocks! The various DOTs ticking are a hate magnet.
    Tridav likes this.
  8. Priority Well-Known Member

    The hate management for tanks with the decrease cap at -150 was mindless. Regardless of what classes were involved.
    Taled, Tyrval and Benj like this.
  9. Tyrval Active Member

    Yeah -100% meant someone cannot generate threat, as any attack would be reduced to 0 threat, so it is impossible for them to take aggro except on blurs that replace someone else's threat value with their own
    Sigrdrifa, Benj and Taled like this.
  10. Tanto Done, finished, gone.

    What is the consensus on Assassins and hate generation? I never felt the need to experiment with it in RoS as I was doing phenomenal dps and the tanks had no trouble with aggro, but in VoV, with Assassin getting it's nuts cut off, I did experiment a bit with threat reduction and transfer for a while, to see if having higher hate gain (or less hate reduction) benefited the tank. I didn't really stick around to come up with a conclusion though once it became clear that the destruction of the class was intended and permanent, and every other decent assassin I knew of either quit or betrayed. Has anyone bothered to see if it changes things?
  11. Moss Well-Known Member

    Potency is not a thing anymore in RoR you could lose 50k potency and it'll not change your output by much. Having +1M potency is needed as mentioned, but should not be a problem with current gear.

    Crit Bonus + Crit Bonus Overcap is the key stat for RoR. In raid or H3 having +800 crit bonus could mean an increase of dps by +40% or more. Target is about 35-36k crit bonus in combat in high end groups (while you may be at 27-28k solo).

    At a very basic level of understanding, you should focus on having 4 crit bonus overcap items (not including the weapons, +/-1 depending on the content/group you are doing) and fill your crit bonus with everything available: crit bonus bardings, hizite painlink (do not use powerlink anymore), crit bonus temp adornments, etc... You could even replace some of your red adornments that gives +2k potency by other adornments without a second though.
  12. Aterskia Active Member

    did yu'es furgits?
    dey "fixed adornments" in peevous patch.
    translated: "Adornments(of any real. value.) ONLY work in ONE zone*.(even now states on adornment itself, "only functions in x, y, or z zones")"
    e.g. (note: eq2wire is NOT listing said limitation aka "Predicates" as seen in-game)
    (in Player Home or Guild Hall zones or Tears of Veeshan zones or in Alter of Malice zones or in Terror of Thalumbra zones)
    (in Player Home or Guild Hall zones or in Ros, or in VoV or in RoR zones)

    (in Player Home or Guild Hall zones or in Ros, or in VoV or in RoR zones)
    et al.
    *=exaggeration, but gets point across of them STRIPPING abilities for purpose of Time Sink & PaytoWin; just like they did stripping stat Reforging from "Our Game, Played Our Way":mad: .

    Dat whies dey gots dis furum'es,...
    sews we'es kin kompain, :eek:o_O:(
    awl wyel dey does wat-eber DEY wanna:mad::mad::mad: dey awl-reedee gots we's ¢oins£¥$.
  13. Taled Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I'm not sure because of the nonsense speech you use, but if you're *trying* to say that the Incandescent adornments don't work, you're entirely incorrect.

    While the ones you specifically provide links for ARE limited by predicates, the predicates are intentionally only added AFTER the Incandescent tier, per Caith, because they don't want to create newer versions of the adornments in the Incandescent tier - both because they aren't willing to give us higher stat versions of these adornments (Reuse, casting speed, etc) and because we would complain at having to use newer materials to create adorns with the same low values.
    Tyrval, Daryx and Benj like this.
  14. Tyrval Active Member

    That reminded me, and I think people have missed it a little. There's temporary adornments for double cast, cast speed and reuse this expansion. 1h prestige ones that are very awkward to use from the currency merchant yeah but you can make 4 hour tinkered ones. White fervor adorns for ears, and of course the incandescent reuse/cast speed are probably the most frequently missed, and weirdly VoV fading/aggressiveness runes are far and away superior to RoR ones, because RoR ones lost the fervor overcap. Also it seems skill adorns weren't continued, which from raising minimum damage greatly outperform ability mod adorns, so the best ones still seem to be from VoV- but most people have struggled with cast speed/reuse so haven't been using anyways.
  15. mouser Well-Known Member

    Thanks to all of you for this. Great refresher/learning for those of us coming back after long absences.
  16. Raeven Well-Known Member

    Are you certain the Incandescent Adornment of Reuse (Superior) works? Because I put one on my belt while in guild hall, and although it showed my reuse speed in stats went up by 15, there was no change in the reuse time shown on my spells. Removing a piece of RoR gear with resuse speed of 24 dropped my reuse speed listed in stats AND that shown on the spell.

    I think the change in listed stats is just a psych to make us think it helps while it doesn't actually change anything else.
  17. Melkior Well-Known Member

    I did a similar test. I took off an incandescent adorn, and saw my reuse climb. So for me, I can say they definitely apply to the stats and reuse. Not sure how to reconcile that with your finding, but in my experience they work fine.
  18. Raeven Well-Known Member

    It went up on the actual spell, not just in the stats window? On what server? I did it on the Test server, if you have different results I will try on a live server as well.
  19. Taled Well-Known Member

    Without knowing what your reuse was with and without the adorn/gear piece, I can't explain what you saw without assumptions. However, I am certain they *were* still working at expac release. I would have to test to say 100% accurately today, but I doubt they changed it without saying anything.

    When adornments don't apply, they don't change your stats either. The only way I can honestly guess at your statement being accurate would be that you had somewhere around 100-108% reuse before the adorn, meaning adding it wont help but removing 24% afterward would reduce you below 100.
  20. Melkior Well-Known Member

    It went up on the spell. Yes. In the particular case I weas looking at from 19.1 seconds to 21.5. I play on Skyfire.