Why? Two reasons: Reason #1 - Short encounters. Our Dots never reach the full potential and are slow casting so this means our Zonewide DPS suffers due to the fact that trash mobs are dying before we can cast anything. We have no Auto attack and 1 Direct damage spell. Reason #2 - Pet Gear. Conjurer pets benefit far more from every single piece of pet gear because our Pet casts DoTs instead of Nukes! How can we implement these changes without changing the "flavor" of the class? Simple! Give necro mage pets big nukes!! What if our pets draw aggro? Then we have to use magic leash and summoners soothing! OMG congrats I feel like a pet class again instead of a weak Dot Class then macros pet attack on things and forgets my pet is doing anything half the time!!
I disagree. I think necros should be bad in short fights and at the top in long fights. So, imo, we should have a wider range of dots that last a long time like bloodcoil. Thus, for spells like that, if we are able to let them tick out we do more damage than burst damage classes. Think of dots that do more damage than abilities like ice comet or assassinate but must be allowed to tick out for a long time. That way we would be much more effective on boss fights. If we look at the current dumbfires, they last for about 45 seconds; convert those into true dots that do lots of damage if allowed to tick out and we should be fine. A few huge abilities for our pets, especially the scout pet, would be useful though. But I still think necros should be dps for long fights with dots. Let the burst damage classes be good on short fights and worse on long fights.
If your shooting for burst damage focus on casting speed and ability mod; you will suffer overall because potency is better in the end, but there you go. The necro's slow cast and long burn is designed for agro control while using the tank pet in the traditional necro way. The REAL problem I see here is; you have somehow found yourself in a group situation! Don't panic, but stop, and slowly back away. Leave the grouping to Every. Single. Other. class in the game; now go solo something x2.
Nanran wrote: This. Necros are designed where they need 10-15 seconds of combat to reach full potential.
Rhadamanthys wrote: This isn't very good logic. If this was really true then there wouldn't be any reason for the Sorcerer classes on boss fights. Just swap in the necromancers when you need Mage DPS for bosses and Wizards for trash. Well Trash doesn't award loot. So eventually you wouldn't even need to swap as the Necro's gear would let them outburst the Wizard's on short fights. Currently I don't believe anyone puts together a group for trash and changes it for bosses so things are probably fine in that regard. But on a 2 minute fight or 10 minute fight, the mages need to be on par with each other in how much damage is done. What happens in under 20 seconds doesn't, never did, and never should matter.
Rhadamanthys wrote: I think you need to play a defiler sir. Necros are lacking in DPS that stands for damage per second. With no burst damage we are not a viable class for grouping or raiding. Unless we receive some serious attention by the next expansion, we will become obsolete once multi attack goes live. There won't be a mob left to DoT because the scouts/tanks/bards auto attacks are outshining our measly DoT ticks.
Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote: Huh? How is that not good logic? They are two different styles of DPS. One is short term, and the other is long term. As in now there is no reason for anyone to have a necro in the raid... Unless they are better equipped or the other DPS classes don't know how to optimize their DPS. We need like 20 seconds for our DPS to kick in, and even then it is nowhere near as good as most other DPS classes. And I don't get why you think making necros into long-term DPS is such a bad thing. That's already what we're supposed to be with DOTs (Damage over TIME) and we still can't do more damage on long fights than other classes.
Germs666 wrote: So what's your solution, turn every DPS class into the same thing? We all get burst damage with a slightly different name? Each class should be useful in different scenarios. Currently necros aren't needed for anything. Have you ever seen anyone ask for a necro in a group or raid? We have almost negligible utility. Why use hearts when you could have a real power feed? We can heal, but why not just have a real healer. We can rez, but dirges are easily superior in that regards. We can DPS, but every other DPS class can do more than we can, on long or short fights. We need DOT (Damage over TIME) abilities that actually make us useful when given time. Bloodcoil and undead horde are our highest damage abilities, yet even when we allow bloodcoil to tick out it comes nowhere close to the amount of damage other classes can do; and undead horde just dies instantly.
Germs666 wrote: I was on my Inquisitor back in July running Outer Vaults with a pre-made group which had a Necro. The fellow was doing 27-35K almost every pull. Maybe only RAID geared Necros are viable for grouping, I know wizzy's for the longest time for several expansion packs were basically not able to get groups to get gear to do decent dps at the group game (catch 22) but the RAID geared ones never had problems getting groups. Perhaps grouping necros have the old wizzy problem? Need RAID gear to do DPS in groups that groups have come to "expect" from a DPS class when grouping? Catch 22?
Part of it is definitely itemization problems. Effects like Destructive Forces and Empowered Minion, which is pretty common on raid loot, is fairly rare for Legendary gear (unless you do Battlegrounds).
S_M_I_T_E wrote: Necros can DPS, but with all things equal, other DPS classes can do much more. Even with no raid gear and no buffs like TC or UT, I can do about 30-50k on an encounter (depending on the size of the encounter). On a boss, 20-30k with lifeburn can be achieved. With TC or UT, those numbers can increase quite a bit. But those numbers usually require having a bad group because if the other group members do good DPS, then my DPS can't kick in when the enemy dies so fast, and so I usually parse less with other high DPSers. Necros can be good DPS, but usually only when compared to poorly geared "good" DPS classes or healer/utility/tank types. We need a type of fight that we are good at, such as long fights, which you would think a damage over time class would be the best at. It's a simple change, really. We already have 3 long potential long duration DOT abilities: Awaken Grave, Blighted Horde, and Undead Horde. Each are 45 seconds, but none of them increase in damage based on your characters stats, nor do they take advantage of splurt because they are not true dots, and they die almost instantly to any mob... Except training dummies. And even when given the full duration of the spell, they are usually weaker than our other damage spells. So, convert those as most people usually seem to want, and necros will do more damage on long fights.
