Necro efficiency/utility/damage/lvl50 concerns revisited

Ah, warlocks got a version of lich and I've been reading reports of their dumbfire pet, netheros, healing itself.
The hits just keep on coming.

does their lich regen mana or nuke too?

It doesn't have that uber 1 power (one power, not 1%) per tic regen lich has but it does have the nuke portion without the persistant health cost (though it will have some persistant power cost in the future I'm sure).

so they got a buff that increases their damage for no mana cost and no HP cost? wow the more i hear what other classes got the more it looks like we suck.

Im not going to lie, it looks pretty bad on beta right now. There are a lot of things broken and there is no way its going to be even close to complete when it goes live, but they have no choice so come the 13th or whatever, everyone is going to be in "beta" because I am pretty sure they will continue to changes things for weeks/months to come after release.

Did I forget to mention that our stun is the only one with no secondary effect?

Conj modrod line has 3 charges. Our rods are getting 3 charges as well. ( /own on )

I'll see your rod charges and raise you

- Pets in the Undying Adherent line have increased in size.

Now we're gettin' uber.

rofl

oh chup.. lich does regen 1% btw

Never used to (that I noticed), it does now?

It does now, and on beta.. Run some tests!

OK 5mins ago (at 12:30 am 9th sept pacific time), I got these results.

Lich Master 1, level 60 necro raidbuffed, with good food, out of combat.

Power pool is 4247

Spell description says regens 2% of power pool per tick.

Without Lich, power regen was 245/tick.

With Lich, power regen was 331/tick.

So Lich adds 86 regen per tick, which is exactly 2% of my power pool.

In combat, I have heard that the regen rate is capped at 75 from all sources. So at level 60, Lich alone would mean that we wouldn't need any other asistance.

Well, that's good news anyways... last time I tested it on live it was nowhere near 1% so that's a little something.

For grins, I'm gonna do the utility breakdown post again, taking into account revamp since it's only a few days away and we've been nothing but nerfed (with the exception of concentration costs). Not asking for anyone to be nerfed or anything like that, just asking for the classes to be balanced as per their DPS tiers. These go up to T5 for the purposes of this comparison.

Roots:

• Conjuror: Quagmire, 2s cast, 6s recast, 50s duration, 9s 35% snare on termination
• Necromancer: Eternal bindings, 2s cast, 6s recast, 50s duration, 9s fear/35% snare on termination
• Warlock: Bony grasp: 3s cast, 45s recast, 50s duration, 10m AoE root
  • Cower: 2s cast, 6s recast, 50s duration, 4s fear/35% snare on termination
• Wizard: Ring of cold: 2s cast, 10s recast, 50s duration, encounter AoE root, 12s 53% snare on termination
  • Frozen prison: 2s cast, 6s recast, 50s duration, 10s 53% snare on termination

Stuns:

• Conjuror: Harden*: 2s cast, 45s recast, 8s duration, 340-415 DD
  • Quake: 2s cast, 20s recast, 1.5s duration, epic effecting, 317-952 AoE DD
• Necromancer: Convulse*: 2s cast, 45s recast, 8s duration
• Warlock: Deter*:2s cast, 30s recast, 4s duration, epic effecting, 723-1,204 DD
  • Dark nebula: 3s cast, 9s recast, 2s duration, epic effecting (I think), 665-803 encounter AoE
  • Devastation: 4s cast, 3s duration, part of the 50 AoE.
• Wizard: Paralyze*: 2s cast, 30s recast, 4.5s duration, 713-1,189 DD
  • Aurora: 1.5s cast, 9s recast, 35s duration, stuns the wizard as well
  • Ice Comet: 4s cast, 45s recast, 2.5s duration, epic stun, part of the 50 nuke

* The stun durations and cast times have been changed but the change is the same across the board so essentially the same for comparisons sake.
Stifles:

• Conjuror: Shattered earth: 4s cast, 60s recast, 5s duration, encounter AoE stifle, 6 tics 174-213 DoT
• Necromancer: None
• Warlock: Vulian interference*: instant cast, 20s recast, 2.5s duration, epic effecting, 17-29 DD
• Wizard: Enfeeblement*: instant cast, 25s recast, 9s duration, epic effecting, 25-41 damage

Interrupts:

• Conjuror: None
• Necromancer: None
• Warlock: Vulian interference*: instant cast, 20s recast, 2.5s duration, epic effecting, 17-29 DD
• Wizard: Enfeeblement*: instant cast, 25s recast, 9s duration, epic effecting, 25-41 damage

* The sorcerer spell is listed twice since it does both
Group concentration buff #1:

• Conjuror: Phlogiston: +262 power, +470 heat, +588 cold
• Necromaner: Aspect of undead: +262 power, +470 poison, +588 disease
• Warlock: Aspect of darkness: +262 power, +470 disease, +588 poison
• Wizard: Augmentation: +262 power, +470 cold, +588 heat

Group concentration buff #2:

• Conjuror: Geotic brand: Increases mitigation vs. all by 168, pets will get additional magic mitigation but I haven't seen those numbers
• Necromancer: Teachings of the dead: +45 stamina, +45 intelligence
• Warlock: Seal of dark rumination: +14 subjugation, ordination, disruption, ministration
• Wizard: Hand of the tyrant: +27 strength, +27 intelligence (at app1, upgraded it should equal the necro version)

Single target buffs, specifically procs (I'm not going to break down what these all do, just suffice to say they are out there):

• Conjuror: Infernous seed
• Necromancer: None
• Warlock: Toxic grasp
  • Vulian gift
• Wizard: Fiery granduer

Damage shield:

• Conjuror: Flameshield
• Necromancer: None
• Warlock: Nihilism
• Wizard: Singularity
  • Frostshield

There's some other stuff too but this is the meat of it... once I start adding hate reduction spells and self wards, things just spiral out of control since all that stuff is completely out of my realm as a necromancer (since we get none of those spells, ya'know).
I really don't think I need to break down the imbalance of the above to anyone.

I should point out that the overly-long post above only excludes two necro utility spells, exchange life and revivication whereas I've excluded quite a bit from the other classes as there really is no comparison, especially once I start comparing conji's to necro's.

Edit: Oops, left out FD, sacrificial heart and terror, still not much change for the purposes of this post.
Message Edited by El Chupacabras on 09-09-2005 12:22 PM

Sacrificial hearts can be compared to the mana transfer spell warlocks get. I think its called cannibalize.
Terror, FD, revivication are pretty much useless in raids. I see very little utility when compared to warlocks/ wizards to justify putting us at a lower dps level.

yeah, our utility is horrible and i am hoping that is changed when they add our third level 50-60 spell. hopefully it is something useful not another spell like control undeath that i never see being used solo/grouped/in raid becuase it can break so easily. we also lack alot of things other classes have like epic stun/stiffle/interrupt. not only that but we don't even have a stiffle or interrupt at all.

I suspect Sony will address the imbalance. Conjurors, because of their 2 stuns, stifle and better pet tanking, can still solo blue ^^^ mobs as of last night. I believe they are now the last class left that can do this. It seems very likely they will get that "bad love" soon.

Conjurors have had those abilities since release, why would they change them now?

The point of the thread is that our non-pet utility should at least equal a sorcerer since we pay for being lower damage then them by having different pets, not because we have less group utility. I have no interest in seeing the conji's nerfed and as far as the utility chains go, they shouldn't be.

Sorry, didn't mean to derail the thread. The original post listed a detailed comparison of stuns, stifles etc among the utilities, so I thought the comment was on-topic.

I am certainly not asking for nerfage of anyone, just extrapolating what the devs have obviously been trying to do the past few days. Which is to make non-gray ^^^ mobs almost but not quite impossible for any class to solo.