Brawler: Why do rogues have a tank spec and brawlers do not? The purposed STR KoS change was in the right direction for having a real tank spec. Changes that would be cool for a tank line: #1 Instead of having a mit debuff for the mob why not decrease its crush/pierce/slash / dps / haste? (not all take your pick) This would add in some utility and also extra single target "avoidance" in the tank line. #2 The idea for CA damage increase is in the right direction for tanking but the 6% purposed is not enough to be on par with any of the other AA lines. If our CAs are not meant to hit beyond 1200 damage then how about giving the 6% damage and bonus to accuracy as well (for CAs) Having this increase effect taunts as well would be good. #3 The added mitigation is a great idea. For those who whine about brawlers not being mit tanks let me put your mind at ease... Using our agility we position ourself to take the least amount of damage from the enemies blow, protecting our vital organs. People claim we are avoidance tanks but avoidance is useless when we are able to be 2 shotted within 2 seconds. We may have 25% more avoidance than a warrior but the fact still remains a brawler has half the mitigation and is two shotted more often than a plate tank who not only must take 4 hits but those extra two hits allow for more time to heal. With avoidance being what it is for raid mobs it either must be turned static for part of the brawler skill (IE deflect would not scale with level so even on a raid mob we would have a static thirty some odd percent avoidance) Every fighter has two group buffs brawlers only have haste/dps mod. Why can't we cast our self str + agi/wis buff on other players to use up our open concentration slots? This would not make brawlers uber but it would give utility. Monk: Why do monks need so much haste? We are drowning in haste and it ends up hindering us more than it helps us. Bruisers get procs that are only improved with the groups. You give a bruiser a dirge or templar and their dps goes up, you give them haste or dps mod and their dps goes up. You give a monk haste and their dps goes down. Having any group haste is a hindrance, it simply makes the majority of brawler weapons (1.6 delay) swing too fast to be able to get a CA off in between which greatly lowers our dps. Monks can have 3 hastes up at this time. Why not make one of the self hastes double attack? both even. This would improve monk ability to dps on par with bruisers simply for not fighting diminishing returns, which bruisers do not have to fight at all.
Cirth@Storms wrote: Yes, hearing anything from a Dev gives us a shimmer of hope. I just hope that they realize that we need help in 3 areas .... not just one. 1) Tanking / Holding Agro 2) DPS 3) Utility We really need help in all three areas at this point to make enough difference to be needed / wanted on raids. I'll just keep my fingers crossed.
[p]Well, well its sweet that the knowledge of how bad the monk is off from many other classes has taken off and is now renown enough to stand on the feet that through the community it has been provided. Im proud that I voiced my opinions earlier in the stages of when this topic became known to all but some agreed with what I posted and also asked for more. More power, utility, and/or pupose and Im really happy about how this thread has turned out. Not that its seen a massive amount of posts even though it has and its awesome but because eventually after it hits 100 pages of posts maybe someone leading few guys in Sony will pull their head out of their ***** and acutally read whats being put in this. To all who said " I love my monk, They solo well and I love playing with my family." all those people. Screw you for haulting the effort to fix a class with you ignorant input.[/p][p] umm.. rock on fix the monk...[/p][p]/brawler if you want[/p]
Well some acknowledgement finally, and it is very much appreciated. Give us a little double attack, give us another group buff, and increase our dps a bit and im happy. Another idea I was thinking about was let Monks wear round shields or some new type of shield or something.
[p]I'd rather just see our uncontested avoidance get fixed instead of making us wear a shield. A shield on a brawler makes about as much sense as a berzerker using a wand to me [/p][p]I think there are three 'quick fixes' things that would satisfy most of the community.[/p][p]1) Brawlers are the kings of avoidance - due to the implementation of uncontested avoidance, this is far from true vs epic mobs. The simple fix is to give brawlers a level of uncontested avoidance that is higher than what other fighters have. I'd like to see this happen by taking our deflection and making it entirely uncontested just like shield block is for other classes. Avoidance is what defines our class and allows us to perform our primary role. Giving others, who are not definied by their avoidance, more avodiance than us in the raid setting completely hamstrings us and makes us into the bastard child class we are today.[/p][p]2) Make the str line viable for both unarmed fighters and high end fighters. Do this by implementing partial bonuses when weapons are equipped and full bonuses when no weapons are equipped. In addition, cut the reuse timer on chi to ~5 minutes. 15 mins is way too long. If shortening the recast is out of the question, make it a group buff.[/p][p]3) Every other fighter has 2-3 group buffs plus further single target buffs beyond the core fighter abilities. Brawlers have 1 group buff and the two core fighter single target buffs (avoidance and intercede). Give us utility that matches what other fighters have. If not, give us a dps boost to make up for the lack of utility. I'd personally prefer a group buff that gives a small double attack bonus or something similar.[/p]
[p]Let me answer you simply:[/p][p]Rogues got a tank spec, because there was a dev named Blackguard playing it.[/p][p]Similiar question also goes for why Bruisers have better tanking and better dps even slightly:[/p][p]Answer is same, there was a dev named Moorgard playing it.[/p][p] [/p][p]Devs barely see any other class' problems than the ones on their character list and perfectise their own classes.[/p][p] [/p][p] [/p]
[p]2) Make the str line viable for both unarmed fighters and high end fighters. Do this by implementing partial bonuses when weapons are equipped and full bonuses when no weapons are equipped. In addition, cut the reuse timer on chi to ~5 minutes. 15 mins is way too long. If shortening the recast is out of the question, make it a group buff.[/p][p] [/p][p]Chi is only a 10min recast -- chi speeds up chi ...if that makes sense if you changed the recast to 5min it would be roughly 2 min recast.[/p]
Hereo@Unrest wrote: Ah, gotcha. Well, I still think 10 mins is too long, I'd like to see the finalized recast (with the chi bonus included) be about 5 mins.
Even with upcoming changes, the only thing ive seen thats worth it is the ability to use all more then 50 points in the Brawler tree. The monk tree changes that I saw were only good in the cases where things costed less points. Other then that you wont be putting very many points in the monk tree anyways. woohoo deaggro for the group every 20 seconds!! yippie
[p]It can potentially give us raid spots, and is a step in the right direction. Enchanter classes hold adds down we coordinate the hate of the active mobs.[/p][p]Just They might add some adjustments to the stats on the amount of hate vented once the test results come in, I hope. and if we pull aggro from MT we can speed-dump it gives Mongoose stance a reason for being or FD if we really need to dump aggro.[/p][p]Still need Uncontested and Str line fixed, it is however a step in the correct direction. [/p]
[p]trying to stay as positive as possible.[/p][p]After the expansion illusionists jumped to the top of group buffers. Their ability to use croud control is rarely used in any guild that rips through content. Monks would have to do very good dps with little buffs. If not , why not put another ranger in the raid.[/p]
[p]I agree. Makes no sense.. Why have a monk when you can have a real DPS class?.. I am happy they are are making changes, cuz we're broke.. But the changes don't really affect the current situation being that good tanks keep argo, good healers heal the group, good DPS kills the mobs a fast rate.. Putting a monk on argo control will only allow monks to control argo is not a bad thing.. But it's not a needed/required thing.. So it just doesn't add up. Us being the only fighter class that can control argo, doesn't actually favor us as tanks atm.. Because a zerker that may not have that ability still has that uncontested avoidance, that meaty buff and a higher mitigation.. [/p][p]If we had better avoidance, better mitigation, or even higher dps.. Then that change would make sense. Making us a class that soley controls argo in a raid is pretty pointless...[/p][p] [/p][p] [/p]
[p]I am not sure if I like the change for evade. In theory it sounds nice, but we will still be left in the same position, that is we can manage aggro good but not great.[/p][p]First off to get evade we have to give up a bit of our eof dps tree (lol) to get enough points in awareness to activate the end line ability evade.[/p][p]Second; I read that it was nice that we will be the only fighter with aggro management. Unless I missed it guardians and pali's have better aggro management then us. (Moderate and Amends) Troub's have better group aggro management then us, and chanters can kill someones aggro better then us. So as I see it the devs gave us another tool but we are on the bottom of the list.[/p][p]Dps monks the least preferred[/p][p]Tanks monks least preferred[/p][p]Utility monks least preferred[/p][p]IF the dev's good fix avoidance tanking and our dps then we might be okay.[/p][p]DPS fix give the brawler tree double attack for weapons, 4 to5 percent armed, 10 percent unarmed[/p][p]Avoidance fix, Brawlers are the only ones who should have uncontested avoidance[/p][p]Utility fix aggro tool is not bad a bit more effective would be nice, such as a permenent buff that reduced hate of group 1200 every 20 seconds.[/p][p] [/p][p]Sensie Hwarang - GUK[/p]
[p]You can't use more than 50 points in any tree. All they are doing is making it so that if you use a respec, you can use the points in any tree... so if you have 20 points in the Brawler tree, and 30 points in the Monk tree, you can respec and put all your points into the one tree.[/p][p]But a person with 100 points will still only be able to use 50 in each. [/p]
