Monk Tanking Guide and FAQ

Discussion in 'Fighters' started by Silzin, Feb 16, 2015.

  1. Silzin Active Member

    This guide is going to make a few assumptions: 1st you are Max Level (100 atm), 2nd you are wanting advice on tanking, 3rd you have the Basics of Pulling and rounding up mobs for tanking.

    If you are working on leveling up some or a lot of this may help you but I will not be focusing on it here. If you want to play your monk as DPS…. Sorry I am not interested in helping you and you have a very long and hard road of public perception to get over, Monks are tanks and it is my attempt to help others work on getting better. A lot of this is going to be a repeat from other tanking guides here since tanking is tanking for the most part… I.E. TY Margrith on your Pally Tanking guide, a lot of it applies here. I am not trying to say I am the end all Authority on Monks, I am just compiling some advice.
    Jagze and Brienae like this.
  2. Silzin Active Member

    1st Hate - what does it take to TANK. Your over all threat from DPS (Damage Per Second) and TPS (Taunts Per Second) Times your Hate Gain needs to be higher than anyone else, this gives you your HaPS (Hate Per Second). +/- Memwiping Mobs and + and – threat positions from tanks and non-tanks…. there is a lot going into this Calculation, lets break it down.

    Each player is generating agro based on what they are doing. An over all record of this can be easily found by using ACT and looking at the “Outgoing Damage” area and adding or Subtracting the Threat(out) area. If it is Taunt you add if de-taunt subtract. This will give you a number, then multiply this by your Hate Gain. The Positive cap is +100% De-taunt cap is -50%. So if you are doing +1,000 HaPS with a 75% hate game then you would be doing…. 100x 1.75 = 1,750 HaPS.

    Even with Hate gain there may be times that other players will take agro from you, this is where a “Snap” comes in or a Positional Increase. Some scouts also have these and all dps have the reverse of this. So a 1 Positional will move you up to be 10% (out of 100) higher than the person above you on the HaPS chart, there is NO effect if you are at 100% hate. Sometimes if you were just Rezzed it is best to use an attack or Taunt before using a Snap since all of the Pets and such will be positions on the HaPS chart and just a Taunt may get you over them.

    Next to, identify what ability to use the most often, for a tank… look in ACT at the “All Outgoing (Ref)” area, this will have the accumulative effect of each attack/taunt. This may/will change based on Single target vs group of linked targets vs group of non-linked targets, it’s all based on what you are fighting.

    Math about damage and Taunts: the normal calculation for damage is ((Base Damage [from you examination window] x Pot) + Ability Mod [Max ½ the Base Damage]) x CB [including the base CB 120-150%] = over all damage. This can be used for attacks, heals and Power regen. Taunts are calculated Differently. Ability Mod does not affect taunt values, but STR (other main stat for non tanks) do have an effect on the end number on the taunt. I do not know just where in the calculation STR in placed though.

    Hate Transfer – many classes have a Hate transfer and monks are not an exception, it is not great and it’s not going to help you hold agro, but I will explain it. Hate transfers move a % of the hate from one player to another. I think the Hate Transfer is calculated after all Hate Gain, and capped/normalized at 100%. Since monks only get a 5% its not much of our hate.

    I think this covers the basics of Hate. I will be covering Specific CA’s (Combat Arts) and Taunts in section 4.
  3. Silzin Active Member

    2nd Passive Survivability – As brawlers we get most of our avoidance from our Defensive Stance and the AA “Aversion” in the Shadow Tab. These 2 sources of Deflection give us a base amount of Uncontested Block that other Block Chance multiplies by. Other sources of Deflection do NOT add to Uncontested Block (not sure why) they may add to the Contested Block that all lvl 90+ mobs ignore since they have way more contested skill then we can get. Extra Riposte Chance is also a good source of Avoidance (no other form of Riposte is worth anything). In the lvl 100 group and raid content a lot of the named have large amounts of Strikethrough which will ignore most all of your avoidance so we need other sources of Survivability, Physical Mitigation (Mit). Note: a lower level Ancient Defensive stance may give you better Avoidance over even the Grandmaster lvl 92.

    I am prioritizing Mit gear over Avoidance or Block gear anywhere possible. Most of the harder heroic mobs and all of the raid mobs Strikethrough our avoidance a lot more than it’s worth. Mountain Stance and Body Like Mountain (With the AA) are also good for extra Mit when you need it.

    3rd Active Survivability – as a monk we have a lot of temp abilities, and using then in the right priority for the right attacks can be important. Remember that most of your temps only deal with Physical damage, so I like to hold the temps that can deal with anything in reserve for the times when I think I really need them. I normally hold Superior Guard, and Provoking Stance. I use Brawlers Tenacity at the end of my rotation to also have it in reserve. The temp priority I use (and I go back to the beginning when they come back up) Inner Focus, Tag Team, Bob and Weave, Tsunami, lastly Brawlers Tenacity.

    Winds of Salvation can be a nice tool to help another tank give then 50% DR for 5.5 sec’s or bring a player that has a mob that just mem-wiped back.

    Outward Calm is ok if you can fine the space for it but its ward just does not scale very well for me.
  4. Silzin Active Member

    4th Attacks and Taunts – I will just be listing and have a short description about them.

    Dragon Rage – passive Procing taunt that is the largest source of agro I have, get this as good as you can.

    Hostility – Passive Proc from the Heroic AA tree that is nice Encounter Aggro, normally in m top 5-8 abilities. 2nd on AoE fights.

    Silent Threat – Single Target attack (with the AA) and Taunt with a fast casting speed (.25 sec base). This is one of the largest damaging attacks and very good to spam any time it is up… yes like every 4 secs.

    Challenge – Encounter Attack and taunt, with the same casting speed of Silent Threat. This should also be one of the highest priority attacks you use.

    Reprimand – this is a large Single target taunt. This is about double of Silent Threat and has a 35m range, but does not have the damage. Use as needed, but not over Silent Threat or Challenge if possible.

    Boneshattering Combination – nice single target attack with taunt. This is the highest hitting attack we have, use it when ever it is up.

    Dragonfire – if you have the Prestige spent in this (Right side) then this is a good AoE agro tool and you need to time Rising Dragon to reset this.

    Baton Flurry and Pressure Point – these are buffs/debuffs and should be used as needed to be refreshed.

    Combination – AA from Monk tree that does ok dps. This only triggers if you get a Kick, punch and Jab in a 4 sec window (not sure about time). Other things can be between them, its fine. The attack order I use to maximize this is: Rising Dragon, Five Rings, Striking Cobra, Roundhouse Kick, Walking Dragon, Frozen Palm, Rising Phoenix, Silent Palm, Arctic Talon. Then I end it with Charging Tiger (Not part of Combination) and I go back to Roundhouse Kick, and Walking Dragon before starting the whole thing over again.

    Remember when using this rotation start off with Boneshattering Combination, Silent Threat, Challenge, Combat Mastery, Boneshattering Combination, Silent Threat, Baton Flurry and Pressure Point, Silent Threat, Boneshattering Combination, Silent Threat, then start into your Combination set interrupting for Silent Threat, and Challenge when they are up. This is my normal attack rotation.

    Mantis Leap – this is a nice tool when used right. It can get you to a mob that you need to and it will trigger a +1 Hate position on each target you hit. This included AoE’s and Autoattack. We only have 3 AoE’s and your Autoattack can only hit 4 people, so it is limited, but its our only Blue AoE Snap. (Malice of Lanys charm aside)

    Crane Flock – if you are not around 100% AoE auto without this it’s a nice AA and you probably want the AA that is in its line, so it’s a nice AA. I am at around 80% AoE auto when I want to so I do not use this aa all of the time.

    Chi – I have not used this AA in years, but some monks still do. I find myself high enough on everything it gives so it does not give me much of a boost.

    Altruism – this can be a nice AA if you can use it on a healer that you need to survive and they can remember they have it…. FDing a healer WILL throw them the 1st several times.

    Eagle Shriek – from a distance this looks useful, but do not fall for it. Its useless in all situations, maybe FD/Flopping zones. .. MAYBE.

    Unrivaled Focus – Heroic AA – 30% DR when you need it is very tempting, but its only 1.6 secs every 10 secs…. I go back and forth every few months about this AA, but I do not think it is useful anymore.

    Stone Cold – 15% DR for the group and you with a 22 sec duration and a 45 sec reuse…. Its nice when needed, but I do not need it in a normal raid tanking spec.

    This covers most all of the abilities, AA and Prestige. My Raid tanking spec is called HardTanking. My Heroic/Trash mobs Spec is called MixedTanking. I do not recommend using my test spec. The main differences between Hardtanking and Mixedtanking is the Prestige tree. In Hardtanking I use All Leftside and get Bob and Weave since I will need the extra Temps. In Mixedtanking I go Double Conversion (go down each side to get the Conversion ability) and after this is up to you, I like the extra survivability that Winds of Retribution and Tranquil Constitution gives over the extra DPS of Waveform.

    Whats Next?
    I know that I have left many topics out of this guide and people may have more questions on things that are covered. So please ask here, or you can send me a tell Crushbone.silzin, or I and a lot of other monks and Bruisers are in the WW Monk channel at Crushbone.Allmonks
  5. Genghes Active Member

    Tag team is also great to use on the npcs target if you lost hate or just rezed. It gives you an 8 seconds window to get hate back and keep it's target alive.
    Silzin likes this.
  6. Genghes Active Member

    Interesting a ww brawler channel....I'll might have to join that
  7. Silzin Active Member

    also if you are the OT you can cycle Tag Team and Winds of Salvation on the MT as he needs it to give him the 13 sec's of help.
  8. Silzin Active Member

    O yea, 1 more thing…. When tanking targeting fast and accurately is important. I bind “Target Nearest” Normally F8, to button #5 of my mouse, this way anytime I need to get a target I do not “Tab Target” I hit “Target Nearest” and get the mob just in front of me. If I need to click on a different mob it’s fine and I get it as needed, but starting with Target Nearest is very helpful.
  9. Strayslayer New Member

    I bind Target nearest to my tab and swap target next with f8, that way I can interchange them easily as needed with tab being the quickest pressed.

    That being said, thank you very much for the write up. The only thing I changed, personally, was my casting order to follow yours to see how it works out for me. I don't raid tank, and I am limited to heroic content(personal choice), but I still try to maximize based on my normal group and our buffs. I would be most curious for feedback from some of the tanks on my current specs and purple adornment choices. I'm aiming to provide the most DPS possible to the group while still able to tank all current tiered heroic content. My profile is the same as my forums handle, private message is fine since I don't want to clutter this post more than I already am with this post.
  10. Silzin Active Member

    just a few things. maxing out (10 points) in Ancient Advance is nice for the exttra dps. i find that reuse reforges badly, so i stopped getting AA in it, and placed the AA in other places... just me tho. Draconic Shout can be a nice heal and help give ou the extra HP needed to survive at times... and u have the AA spent to take it already.

    you do not need as meny AA in your Brawler and Monk trees, theres nothing wrand with the way you having it other then my coments above...other then that you do not look to bad to me.
  11. Strayslayer New Member

    I took your advice, all except the Draconic Shout. The group I'm normally in, I run inquisitor, Defiler, Dirge, Monk, then the DPS is revolving depending on who's on. If I need to self heal there's an issue that's going to need more than 25% more health to fix.
  12. Genghes Active Member

    That ability is best used in raids where you know there is a large amount of inc damage about to happen
  13. Silzin Active Member

    it has its times.... its a self heal that is that can be used when Stunned also.
  14. Naneeje Well-Known Member

    Silzin, this expansion I feel I am the foremost expert on Illusionist as I have created a similar guide to help those in that class, and I dps/utility very well.
    I have a Monk/Mystic team that I like to do solo zones with and I struggle with the Monk because I have no time to play it.
    Thank you.
    This guide will surely help me get better as time goes on and I get used to what the class can do. We were great in TOV, but tbh it was shelved since then. Again, thanks, and keep the updates coming. My guild mates and I were referring to this when we were discussing some of the points you made and it's all good.
    Nan
  15. Silzin Active Member

    Thank you
  16. Solution New Member

    Silzin,

    Thank you for all the information and the thought process behind your choices. Coming back from an almost 3 year hiatus was puzzling, to say the least, due to game and combat mechanic changes. And there is no need to mention the changes to AA's, itemization, etc.

    The other site I used for reference has apparently stagnated beyond the point of uselessness. This one post contains the most accurate, complete, and current information I have found since I returned to game. I hope it inspires other Monks that know the how's and why's (that is to say, other top Raiding monks) to share instead of hoard their knowledge. I for one lack the words to express my gratitude for the generosity and time you put into developing and then sharing this post.

    If anyone has anything to add to this topic, please post. Helping your fellow monks is more important than ever for one simple reason. There is little, if any, high quality information out there for those of us learning the class, or returning to the game.

    Thank you Silzin, and the others who chose to share and replied.

    Cheers!
  17. Silzin Active Member

    Since I first put this guide together, I have since gotten Peacebringer, Staff of the Awakened the Collection reward from the Fabled Instances that came out during ToV. It is absurd how much more defensive this weapon is than the MC weapons and even the new weapons from the Rare Named… let alone to anything discoed from any of the raid named.

    If any one out there gets it, I recommend the White adorns from the Solo zones. You can get 3 Block runes on it for 26.5% Block, or for dps, you can get 3 CB or Pot Runes on it for the same Block.
  18. Apolllo New Member

    Thanks Silzin. I'm trying a monk for the first time and this really helped me getting started. I'm very impressed by some of the monks abilities and can really see why they are considered such good raid tanks. Really the only thing I'm having trouble with is aggro control on mass pulls. Any tips for this? My main is a berserker and I'm not used to such a single target style tank. Also any tips for reforging? I didn't see how to get to 100% AE auto without making some big sacrifices in other stats. Even considering putting on the wild swings rune but as a tank there are obviously other runes I would rather use.
  19. Silzin Active Member

    Using the AoE auto with Weapon Skills Belt and Cloak and Screams of Battle Rune, helps a lot. Also a lot of the tanking Jewelry has AoE auto on it, and some of the Ranged do as well. If you cannot get to 75+% then just taking Craneflock is a good option, it is up most of the time when you will need it. I do not think 100% AoE auto is really needed to hold agro.

    Other things to help with AoE agro would be, make sure that Hostility is Maxed... it’s amazing for AoE. Use Mantis Leap, followed by the 1 -3 of the Blue AoEs we have will help take AoE agro. Next, make sure that as many of the mobs you have are within your Dragonfire Cone. Lastly, \aITEM -928593996 -215720994:Malice of Lanys\/a Charm is amazing when all else fails.
  20. Apolllo New Member

    Cool, I will try that out. Putting the Lanys charm on is almost the first thing I did on my monk. Thank you again.

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