Monk Discussion

Discussion in 'Fighters' started by Typos, Nov 15, 2012.

  1. Karpov Member

    you guys are forgetting that monks a light tank they dont and shouldnt have a 100% heal becuase they are not supposed to take an *** load of mobs they should be main assist dps and besides my monk destroys people in open world, wf, and bg's and i only have 265% crit chance and 232% crit bonus, so HA monks FTW
  2. Silzin Active Member

    First of all this is not eh PvP/BG's boards and let's leave that out of this discussion please and thank you.

    Next, Monk are by design tanks and can be very good tanks for the MT position in raid or (a bit harder than other classes) can be OT. They also make very good Heroic tanks for must content. The heroic monk will probably have a harder time then other classes since they will not have all of the stats of the gear to reforge that the raiding OT monk will have.

    Lastly, Monks can under a skilled player and the right circumstances compete with T2 dps and in crotch of the T1's at times. This does not mean that we are a dps class that can tank some times, not does this mean that players should roll monks thinking this.
  3. AustinB Member

    So, Fluid Combination was nerfed (fixed). I guess doing a whopping 2% of my parse was too much.

    Now that the skill is working properly, why not make it decent? Quintupling the damage of this skill should put it more inline with what other classes received...
  4. Estred Well-Known Member

    Edit: sorry I had to correct that in the quote I can be a bit retentive grammar wise and try to catch my own ;)

    In reckless a raid geared monk can push 600-700K and on AE fights well Jacck has broken 1 Million. It takes time to get good at timing your stoneskin but I have seen it pulled of very very well. I love having a monk as my co-MT/OT they are very good at meshing with other fighters. I would talk about the dps prestiges versus other fighters as AustinB commented on, bit this is a monk forum/thread and therefor I will have learned form my last mistake a few posts back and refrain from speaking of it.
  5. Bchizzle Active Member

    Lack of heals is because we basically have one 50% heal on a long timer. It is a good heal but having just one versus classes that can heal often is a slight disadvantage in PVP situations. This wasn't an issue when we could just heal with adorns.
  6. Estred Well-Known Member

    This is not a PvP board, there is a whole section devoted to talking class balance within PvP. The class boards more address PvE. While PvP is part of the class the game was created and designed for PvE the addition of PvP came later after the initial release. I can only think of 1 or 2 tanks that have good self-sustained heals in BG's

    Paladins: Healing is their thing.
    Shadow Knights: Siphoning HP is kinda their thing.
    Zerkers: In almost all games I know they regen HP while going nuts.

    Tanks that have lower heals.

    Guardians: Have actually no in-combat heals beyond a very very weak AA line that is more for power conservation.
    Monk/Bruiser: Have a good heal but it has a long recast so must be used wisely.

    I think that's all 6 tanks... dang-it I said I wouldn't bring that up again. I will leave your monk boards alone now. :(
  7. Bchizzle Active Member

    Yes please, stick to the guardian boards.
  8. Bchizzle Active Member

    I agree this skill needs to be looked at, it does way too little DPS for being our top prestige.
  9. rotate New Member

    Yes sadly.. the fix nerfed Fluid Combination... would of been nice if the ability itself hit 5 times if u had five stacks up.. but nope.. each damage hit in the ability requires a stack to go off lol.... Really weak considering how low the damage is on each hit..
  10. Silzin Active Member

    I agree that Fluid Combination needs a DPS boost in some way, but I think that is a much less pressing problem. I would prefer to see a change to Winds of Salvation. I don’t know, call me selfish, but I want to see a Defensive ability for my MONK in this location, not the other tank. as it is the only Defensive ability in the … Defensive Tree is Winds of Retribution. this one looks nice or at least decent, but not worth going all the way down the tree just for it.

    Things I would like to see changed about Winds of Salvation and the other abilities attached. Also throwing in other abilities that I think need to be looked at about Monks.

    1. Winds of Salvation - Make the effects of Winds of Salvation effect both the target of the spell and the caster. I know this may sound OP, but stay with me. the AoE Block will make the DR useless on everyone but the Tank holding the named and the DR can be used by the tank holding the named. so if we are not tanking, we can stay in with the OT and help them survive. If we are MTing we can hit a healer to let them stay in or a OT or something and let them stay in. So in this way only one person will be getting each of the 2 abilities on it.
    2. Tranquil Breeze - this is the only part of the ability that is nice in any way and it should be left alone.
    3. Winds of Serenity - Heals the target for 15% every sec. Really, I am sure we can come up with a non-PVP AA for this, PLZ. If you want to change this so that at 3 ranks it gives the Monk the same effects as the target of Winds of Salvation, this would solve my want in #1 and give this ability some worth.
    4. Crushing Winds - 18CB for 10 sec's…. ok sure an offensive ability on the Defensive Tree and not a very good one at that…. I can see why and also see you did this with every one, its fine. I can not come up with a better replacement.
    5. While I am at it - Stifling Assault - a 7.5 per increment on the name of dps mod debuff, to a max of 37.5 dps debuff. I mean really? does this even have any effect on raid named? I am not sure what we can replace it with, maybe a small defensive ability attached to the offensive tree?
    6. Fluid Combination - As others have said this ability's dps is very low compared to what other classes get here. this ability is not very high on my hopes for changing though.

    Other monk abilities that I think need to be looked at.
    1. We never did receive a buff to replace the Mastered Black Widow stance that we had removed… Yes I am still sore over that one.
    2. Lightning Palm is almost useless to cast at this point. some ideas for this, make it group wide and give each person in group the same # of triggers that it give us, or make it a maintained buff with a decent trigger chance, also give it a concentration slot and let us cast it on as many ppl as we have open slots.
    3. Inner Focus needs to show the # of triggers left. If it is going to be a reliable Stone Skin we need to know how many we have left on it.
    4. Altruism - I want to like this ability, but since it goes off at the same time any other Death Saves go off, it can not be used on another tank that has a save up. If we can make some type of condition on it where it’s the last resort triggered, then it goes off then it may be worth using.
  11. Ebofu Active Member

    +1 on will of heavens not curing trauma anymore.

    Fluid Combination needs to be changed, completely worthless.

    Defensive line which doesn't give us any benefit? counter-intuitive. Either OT and dpsing or MT and 'defending'.
    Only use for it atm is Bastion HM, but that is just a stupid script so no one should pull him.
  12. Razu Member

    Some points I would like to reinforce after reading through this thread.

    1. I wouldn't mind seeing monks with more AOE auto attack, perhaps boost crane twirls percentage.
    2. Fluid Combination- Definitely needs a boost in damage.
    3. Taunts- I would like to see one more encounter taunt added.
    4. PVP- an increase to auto attack damage. Higher mend amount.
  13. Jacck Active Member

    I guess I will chime in. Crane twirl is fine. Really, it is. I know you will bring up that other fighters have 40% ae auto attack from their aa. We get 20% + a AoE proc. And it's a proc that does a decent amount of damage. So, in losing that "amazing" 20%, you gain a 360 degrees AoE proc that can hit up to 8 targets. Oh, let me add, AE auto is only 180 frontal and maxxes out at 4 targets. So, really, Crane Twirl is fine.

    On to Left side Prestige. I am with Silzin on this. As it sits, I can really not see any use other than to mess with the Ranger in my raid. I personally think if you used one of the branches outlined to turn it into an effect to make Winds affect both the caster and the intended target. Maybe even make it where it can only be a nonfighter? Just in case it makes it too OP to put on a fellow tank.

    Right side, I am happy with almost everything. Biggest exception is the pitiful damage output of Fluid Combination. When it was broken, it would put out 16k on a 900k parse (this is hitting every single time it was up and availible). So, 1.7% of my parse was this "awesome" endline ability. Whereas Waveform was consistently, zonewide, 2nd or 3rd behind my auto attack on the parse. Now with the fix, not only does Waveform seem harder to get to the 5th increment, but now, I only get 1 hit per 1 increment, thus lowering the effective damage of the ability even further in respect to the rest of my parse. To balance it, I would leave the damage of the actual spell the same but each increment does the full 5 hits. 5 increments would mean 25 hits basically.

    These are basically the issues I saw brought up in this thread. AE agro management is fine right now. If I decide to OT instead of MT, I can still manage it without it being unduly frustrating but also not as easy as a true OT style class. I.E. Crusader, bruiser, zerker would have an easier time, but I can still do it without wanting to quit the game. Oh, and we don't need another encuonter taunt. I really don't use the ones I have that often honestly.
  14. Estred Well-Known Member

    No harder to OT than it is for me Jacck. I was saddened when they made AE-Auto only hit 4 targets though. Tbh I think Crane Twirl is stronger than Trample/Dragoon's Cyclone for AE purposes the proc makes up for the lack of actual AE on it.

    Just to correct my thinking Winds is a targeted leap/stoneskin on that target but not the Monk? If that is the case I would think it would make more sense to allowing to move the monk and then stoneskin both him and his target. Just my two cents as one of the tanks with the 40% AE auto that was just mentioned.
  15. Jacck Active Member

    Point I was trying to make was that while Monks (and yes, Guardians too) don't have the pure AE threat generation or abilitys/AoE's of other classes, it isn't impossible or even hugely difficult to OT.
  16. Typos Member

    dude. not everyone is running around with \aITEM 1281736895 -1646385814:Obsidian War Scimitar\/a

    well gee. there's a solution for ya. give every monk a sullons 2 hander and it wont be "hugely difficult to OT"

    Not being difficult but your not comparing apples to apples.

    Yes.. i can hold ae hate.. but it's certainly not easy.

    Ae hate WAS easy mode.. until my myth got nerfed. /shrug
  17. Atan Well-Known Member

    I really don't think in the overall balance of fighter classes that monk/guards are supposed to be able to hold ae agro easily. There is supposed to be a reason to bring a zerk/sk along sometimes.
  18. Estred Well-Known Member

    It's not. Monk and Guardian are the more MT built classes as such they should have weaker AE hate when compared to SK/Paladin/Zerker who are all great OT's and Paladin can even MT on some fights (well they all can but you know what I mean).

    Imo every class has a defined roll the "in" class is the one the Mechanics currently are best dealt with. Can I tank Berik or Sevalak adds as a Guardian? Yes. Is it easy? No not unless I am getting things like Coercive Shout on me to pick up the adds that I don't hit off the start. SK WAY out competes me for Add-Tanking.

    Um, The Obsidian War Scimitar is Vallon HM drop. Sullons are respectively Sullon's Wrath and Sullon's Vengence. They can be combined however to form Sullon's Vengeful Wrath.
  19. Typos Member

    the give all monks a myth was a joke. (comon now, that was just pure sillyness)

    My only point was this. With a 2 hander with a nice top end. I concede .. sure ae hate is easy.. without.. not so much.
  20. Estred Well-Known Member

    Oh well egg on my face :confused: , I am not even a main-monk I just have one and figured to offer some minor advice especially compared to what monks are vs at least Warriors. Though yes, with good gear even non-specific jobs like AE hate are easier on Monks.