Monk changes – or at least things that are Useless

Discussion in 'Fighters' started by Silzin, Apr 24, 2013.

  1. Estred Well-Known Member

    Save Guardian temps all have 60 second cooldowns or higher. If a Guardian chains their temps they are going to be dead because they will run out before they come up again. You know how long 14 stoneskins last? About 7-15 seconds if the boss attacks really slow and no DoT's are hitting. That's
    Tower of Stone: 60 seconds
    Last Man Standing: 150 Seconds
    Perfect Counter Attack: 120 seconds

    From there the Guardian can blow their only other "immunity" Dragoon's Reflexes, which only makes them immune to Melee Damage. Lasts for 12 seconds or 20 seconds if you put 8 AA into it. It also has a 90 second recast.

    Defensive Minded and Guardian Sphere work against each other for survival as one Dodges hit the other absorbs the next hit once you are hit, still only on less than 1/4 hits are absorbed or dodged so it's worse than Bob and Weave for Avoidance. I suppose the Guardian could cast Unyeilding Will so that they are back to full life when they die. So now that all are cast let's see where that Guardian's recasts are at.

    Tower of Stone: Possibly has 10 seconds left on it.
    Last Man Standing: About 110 seconds
    Perfect Counter Attack: About 80 seconds
    Dragoon's Reflexes: About 50 seconds.
    Unyeilding Will: About 410 seconds.

    Well isn't that just dandy? I love to know how Guardian's can chain-temps better than a Monk. That Strikethrough immunity buff? That's Defensive Minded and Dragoon's Reflex's. Defensive Minded also has a 150 second recast and only lasts for 30 seconds while Reflex's lasts 12 seconds and has a 90 second recast. It's only 42 seconds and both are on cooldown for at least another minute before they come back up again. So that is not " pretty much close to all the time" as you put it.

    You are exaggerating the Guardians abilities to make your own class look less powerful and so you can keep doing the Guardian's job better than the Guardian. At best a Guardian will get Tower of Stone up before he dies when faced against a boss with no healer. On average, they will last as long as Dragoon's Reflexes is up, once it's gone so are they.
  2. Estred Well-Known Member

    Just adding if I've got my math right (with a bit of assistance).
    Tsunami is 20 seconds of Immunity every 150 seconds.
    Bob and Weave while not an immunity does have ST Immunity for 12 seconds every 135 seconds
    Tag Team can be made to have Immunity every minute.

    So Monks have 40 seconds of ST Immunity every 150 seconds. Well from my above post, Guardians also have to wait at least 150 seconds between thier ST Immunities. So looks like it's pretty square when it comes to Strikethrough Immunities.
  3. Ebofu Active Member

    I expect Blanka helped you if that is your math.
    Monks have 100% avoidance 40/90 seconds.

    Rough example would be;

    Inner Focus - 20
    Tag Team - 8
    Bob and Weave - 12
    Tsunami - 20
    Inner Focus + Tenacity - 60
    Inner Focus - 20
    Tag Team - 8
    Bob and Weave - 12
    Tsunami - 20
    Inner Focus - 20
    Tag Team - 8
    ~~~ 4 Seconds ~~~
    Tenacity - 60
    Inner Focus - 20
    Tag Team - 8
    Bob and Weave - 12
    Tsunami - 20
    Inner Focus - 20
    Tag Team - 8
    ~~~ 4 Seconds ~~~

    Repeat ad infinitum. If you delay casting each temp by 0.35 seconds, you don't even have a gap. Also sporadically cast Sup Guard to buy time, provoking is also at your disposal for threat or just when you are bored. You should have plenty of avoidance to maintain inner focus for 20 seconds with either a Templar or Warden or just additional Sup Guards, if you are using neither the mob obviously doesn't even require much.
  4. Estred Well-Known Member

    Well, I didn't do the math since I don't know the rotation. I actually also completely made a mistake the math I was given said "one and a half minutes" and I was just doing the Guardian math so I glazed over it and put 150 seconds which is actually two and a half minutes. That was a legitimate mistake on my part.

    Guardians still have to wait 150 seconds for both Temps that grant Immunity to come up.
    Monks have to wait 90 Seconds.

    So as you said Monks are 100% ST Immune 40/90 seconds. They can delay some to be Immune darn near the full duration. Guardians cant do that and they have longer cooldowns. The point still stands that Blanka is exaggerating what Guardians can do by a mile.
  5. Ebofu Active Member

    I wonder when, if ever, you will stop posting on things you don't know or understand, which you readily admit. It seems to defeat the purpose and merely serves to confuse everyone. Blanka and Estred is a lethal combo of conjecture and misunderstandings.
  6. Estred Well-Known Member

    If you never inquire you never learn. At least I know when I make a mistake and learn from it. Believe it or not posting and talking with people has taught me a lot about this game. Remember these are discussion boards, not meetings by which the game is built on. I saw that Bchizzle was exaggerating on what Guardian's can do so I provided what I do know and got help for what I don't know. I then made a minor mistake but the overall message is accurate.

    So rather than being helpful and taking a "thanks for the correction" you are belittling and acting as though you are better. Knowing about something does not entitle you to be rude to others about it.
  7. Ebofu Active Member

    It's no surprise you know when you make a mistake, hitting the post reply button is a pretty big hint.

    You preface almost everything with, I don't play this class but I think or I haven't tested this but...
    This is an attack on your history, not the immediate past, it's a common theme with you. Need more questions, less assumptions, or just less posts in general.
  8. Maergoth Well-Known Member

    What is an Ebofu?
  9. Bchizzle Active Member

    Its is an infinite loop of guild failure.

    Also his rotation is a bunch of garbage since inner focus and tenacity don't last 20 seconds and 60 seconds they expire much faster.

    If his rotation was legit then Sk with their unlimited death prevent are the best tanks since 100% of the time their temp is up.
  10. Venur Active Member

    You guys surely live in another world, when I hear monk having less mitigation then other tanks its stopped to be try by lvl 90 man re-read your AA
  11. Silzin Active Member


    We are using Equally Geared and Specced Raid Geared lvl95's for the comparison. So yes Both Brawlers given everything is Equal then we do have less Physical Mitigation.
  12. Duele Active Member

    And when is the last time you can actual say you have brought something useful to a raiding guild?

    Maybe Maergoth can fill us in...

    Once again you under play your class in hopes for yet more buffs when they are still at the top. The only fixing Monks need, and Brawlers in general, is being brought into line with other Fighters.
  13. Hert Member

    ebofu is Einstein apparently. guild failures aside. those are all my fault btw. he just cant seem to shake me. has something to do with having a competent enough MT to stay reckless on 95% of content. how many guilds has blanka cycled through since ME died with him on perma?

    brawlers have these things called AA and Prestige Points. some of them extend the durations of saves and temps. you should look into these things. if you want to be a turtle, you can be. if you want to be a reckless machine, you can spec differently. monks can tank anything, esp if they spec for it. monks can also keep up with nearly anyone dpsing in reckless, while keeping the longest duration of saves of any other tank. go go reckless tanking! options are great! some people dont have them! i dont see guardians whining that they cant keep up with the low end T1 when theyre in reckless. well they probly do, cuz everyone whines about how terrible they are these days. and good luck keeping a reckless SK or bruiser alive as long as a reckless monk if the MT drops.
  14. Bchizzle Active Member

    And less damage absorb.
  15. Silzin Active Member


    In my mind what you are identifying is more of a problem with the Reckless Stance, the way that Reckless Stance provides an uneven amount of DPS bust to come tanks compared to others... and i say this as a tank that dps's pretty good with reckless. Also Reckless does not penalise properly, the penalties for it need to be readjusted to tanking in it is harder and not tanking in it works better. But this is for another thread... and i made one for this some time ago.
    guard likes this.
  16. Hert Member

    i already complained about reckless a bunch in the reckless thread. yes, its stupid. but yes, it exists still, so its a thing, and it has to factor in. just like temps!
  17. Ebofu Active Member

    temps don't exist, monks are bad
  18. Duele Active Member

    So the whole argument is that Monks are slightly squishier when their temps aren't up....but they can keep a rotation of temps up constantly, so they need buffs?
  19. Duele Active Member

    Even though said temps make them the most durable class?
  20. Starstruck New Member

    I have 154.8 block on live with 61% uncontested with no temps running, solo buffed on my guard. No idea why any guard would be a monk thread talking about avoidance.

Share This Page