Mistal's Notepad (or Wordpad) Editing!

Discussion in 'Norrathian Homeshow' started by Uwkete-of-Crushbone, Apr 9, 2013.

  1. Uwkete-of-Crushbone Well-Known Member

    Thanks! :D

    It's also in The Decorator's Resource, but doesn't have a link to it in the first opening post (/sad_face); since the entire thread there is stickied, however, I posted a link to it myself in a Resource posting, so at least it'll be there. ;)

    Uwk
  2. Uwkete-of-Crushbone Well-Known Member

    I spoke too soon! Now there's a link on the first page of The Decorator's Resource to here! Thanks so much, Afista and Co.! :D

    Uwk
  3. IZELLIA Member

    AWESOME!! Lots of good pointers!!
    Uwkete-of-Crushbone likes this.
  4. Merriel Well-Known Member

    Wow, thank you Uwk and Mistal, for this guide. I will most definitely be playing around with this and putting it to use. I am working on a HUGE project right now that I am hoping to have done by Frostfell, and run into so many limitations that I believe this can/will resolve.:)
    Uwkete-of-Crushbone likes this.
  5. Uwkete-of-Crushbone Well-Known Member

    It's slower than the Layout Editor overall, but I do think the learning curve is faster. It varies with each person; some folks look at the math in either program and flee for the hills. :-/

    And it can be easy to get "tunnel vision" and get bogged down adjusting adjoining things by tweaking the last number at the end of the decimal string (like, 123.45678911 adjusted to 123.45678912 and being able to actually see the difference... /raises_paw) so they're all perfect by thaaaaaaaat much...simply because you can. ;->

    Uwk
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  6. Uwkete-of-Crushbone Well-Known Member

    BARE BONES VERSION:

    Once you get into the file (most folks have the most issues with the numbers themselves, but if folks need steps for finding the layout file, etc. in the first place, I'll be happy to include it! I shouldn't presume all of us are vets at this ;->), you'll see the Line(s) of Scary Numbers (which have decimal points, in the American version; other countries use decimal commas):

    6,Version Number
    3860454162,qey_ph_1r01
    2117642317, Unique House ID.
    1405124322,45770784,1.95796394,0.00409227,-15.65585899,0.00000000,0.00000000,0.00000000,1.00000000, false,"a pristine standard ash bookcase"

    [this is from the same house and same item in the Long Form--er, Version; if I call it that, no American taxpayer will want to ever read it...at any rate, the item's moved a bit, and the numbers haven't been trimmed yet]

    Ignore most of them, at least for the Notepad Method, except for that last line. "False" simply means that it's out and about in the house, and not in a Moving Crate, as in this different example:

    6,Version Number
    794634077,halas_ph_3room
    1302868486, Unique House ID.
    1405124322,1504998,23.19706535,0.00250000,-3.25864506,0.00000000,-0.00000000,0.00000000,1.00000000, true,"a pristine standard ash bookcase"
    3676919660,64616,53.10571289,49.97480774,-12.83018780,-179.63749695,0.00000000,0.00000000,1.00000000, false,"Moving Crate"

    The item labeled "true" is actually in the Moving Crate. Don't ask me why this should be; I'm not a programmer. :-/

    The first two numbers in any Line of Scary Numbers are the ID numbers for the item; they don't have decimal points (or decimal commas), so ignore those:
    1405124322,45770784,
    Don't mess with these (you don't need to anyway, unless you're in Layout Editor doing something really fancy).

    The numbers in the rest of the line include:
    1.95796394,0.00409227,-15.65585899,0.00000000,0.00000000,0.00000000,1.00000000, false,"a pristine standard ash bookcase"

    The first three numbers are just the coordinates, like in-game in the Compass:

    1.95796394 = West/East location
    0.00409227 = Up/Down location
    -15.65585899 = North/South location

    You can trim those numbers down to something reasonable, like:

    1.96,0.004,-15.66,

    but if you move something using number-crunching, it'll still be obvious (see screenshots in the Long Version). Basically, increasing the positive numbers will move something farther West, or higher Up vertically (that 0.004 number is probably right at "ground level"), or farther South (decreasing the numbers will move it the other way, of course). The negative number is "increased" by making it smaller: from -15.66 to -14.66 will move it farther South. Trust me, it works. ;->

    The next three numbers are all angles, for things like Tilt, Pitch, and Roll, which can also be done pretty easily in Decorator Mode now. I just like to get into Notepad simply to tweak something from a Pitch of, say, -81.63749695 to -89.99999999, but that's just me, probably. ;-> Other than the truly OCD among us (/raising_paw), you want BIG movement to be noticed any time soon with angles: increase by 15 to 20 degrees at a time to see a difference. Then you can get really precise, but try not to ever give an item a full 90 or 180 degrees, especially if it's something being asked to do something "unnatural," like a Tile being forced to go vertical. They hate that stuff, and will "dance" in protest, frequently. :-/

    [NEW UWKNOTE: The "dancing" usually only occurs when an item is Pitched, rather than Rolled, using the in-game Decorator Mode. If that happens with something as plain as a Tile, you can Rotate it {if it doesn't have an obvious pattern or grain to it} and then try to Roll it, rather than use Pitch. If you have to Pitch it {sorry, Shan; I've always hated Pitch :-/}, that's when I use something like 89.875 or 180.125. Literally, no one but the computer should notice. ;-> --Uwk]

    [EVEN NEWER UWKNOTE: The lovely 89.875, my usual "go-to" angle, will indeed be noticed even by the human eye if you're dealing with a lot of the same item, or it's a really big one. If you're re-skinning something with a lot of Pitched Tiles, for instance, or you've kicked them up to 6.00 or 12.00, you might want to tweak the angles even more to something like 89.9375 to 89.9875. Something. Just not 90.00 exactly. :-/ --Uwk]

    The last number is the Size factor: it's almost always 1.00000000, unless you change the size. Most objects go up to 6.00, max, and 0.50 smallest (yep, you can trim any decimal number to make it more reasonable to see), but some go as high as 12.00.

    Once you've finished changing whatever it is, always Save the Notepad file, then Load it in the house once you get back to the game. One thing I do: if I change anything in-game, I'll close the Notepad file, then Save it in game, then open it up in Notepad again, just so it'll "take." ;->

    Ta-dah! Scary Numbers demystified, hopefully. :)

    Uwk
    Merriel likes this.
  7. Merriel Well-Known Member

    Very good explanation, Uwk. After using the layout editor in my newly published house (still waiting for Niboota's house tour video to advertise it, hehe), I think I may find the notepad method actually easier to use for most things.

    The most complicated thing I found with the editor, is that I used a TON of red marble railings, mostly vertical, and when I'd save my notes in the layout editor to note which ones were which...if I saved the layout in game afterwards, it would wipe out my notes completely. This was very frustrating, lol. I don't know if I'd ever use that many of the same item in a house again, after that experience.

    Of course, the main reason I had to re-make those notes again in the editor a few times over, is because I needed to change the angle several times, until the railings stopped doing that 'dance' you described above. :D

    I'm going to want to make a dome soon, for my portal hub house...but I have absolutely no clue how to do this. It's easy enough to figure out, ok....railings a, b, and c all should have the same up/down coords because they are level with each other, and should all have the same E/W coords because they are positioned the same from east to west...so only the N/S coords would be different. But how to figure things out when items rotate around a particular point on an axis...this goes way over my head. :/

    I'm tempted to offer some kind of payment to Froglily or someone to let me use their dome layout code, so I don't have to try and figure this out for myself, lol. I just know I'll screw it all up. I do better using existing codes and playing around with them to revise them according to what I want to do than I do building it all from scratch. Of course, I would back up the file by saving it in a second file, to ensure I didn't 'lose' the original file while I play around with it. That way if I mess it up too badly, i can start all over again. :)
    Uwkete-of-Crushbone likes this.
  8. Uwkete-of-Crushbone Well-Known Member

    Smart! And for something complex like a dome, I'd recommend Layout Editor, though I have done simple ones with just Notepad (many angles were involved, and I think it helps that I've been a drafter in a former life). ;->

    They do have tutorials for that, I think?

    Uwk
    Merriel likes this.
  9. Merriel Well-Known Member

    Yes, I saw the tutorial, but it seems so daunting to me, lol. I don't completely understand it though. Maybe after my surgery later this month, I'll tackle it. :D
    Uwkete-of-Crushbone likes this.
  10. Uwkete-of-Crushbone Well-Known Member

    If it's anything for like tunnel carpal, yeah, you might wanna wait on that... :-/

    Hugs! :)

    Uwk
    Merriel likes this.
  11. Gracey Well-Known Member

    Thanks for bringing this back to the forums! Mistal worked very hard on this (thumping me on the head periodically while doing it). She is awesome.
    Uwkete-of-Crushbone likes this.
  12. Valzen Well-Known Member

    I truly do love you all very much!! Please do not take this wrong, and I've been biting my lips not to say anything, but this thread gives me a headache to see all those numbers and try to sort this out. I swear I'm a smart person. LOL I just HATE looking at numbers. I'm an artist and am very visually oriented. The layout editor and notepad method are not for me. :(

    I'll stick to the method of in game edit mode and the tried and true shift or ctrl, alt and mouse scroll, and keep fingers crossed they come out with left/right and back/forth sliders. I'll be happy then. :)

    I commend your all's efforts in training others and all the tutorials you've put together. It's really a show of team spirit and support. For that, I thank you!!! You are awesome.
  13. Uwkete-of-Crushbone Well-Known Member

    Cool! Yeah, for the longest time, I did everything via the old keys (and still do, for the most part; I'm a wee bit suspicious of the Tilt, Pitch, etc. in-game "tools"), and the occasional "using shelves and bookcases for scaffolding techniques." But seriously, if the size of the numbers wigs you out, you can always pare them down to something like in the in-game Compass (except for the ID numbers; all the more reason to just pretty much ignore those things, unless Layout Editor needs 'em), like from:

    123.45678911 to 123.46

    [NEW UWKNOTE (2022): If you're using JesDyr's layout editor and pare down the big number to something more reasonable, it will stay that way in its display; just 5 digits {three to the left, two to the right}. If you're using the redoubtable Sennen's OpenSource editor, which I usually do these days {I got addicted to "frills" and have abandoned the no-frills purity :oops:}, it'll fill in the rest of the digits and make it 123.46000000, or scary-looking again. :-/ On the other hand, you don't need WITH, WITHOUT, WORKING, etc. to use Sennen's... ;->]

    The tricky part using the numbers often comes between the part of the brain going, "Okay, got it. Number lines, grids, not a problem." and the other part of the brain going, "But what does that look like? What does it actually mean?!" I've never been shy around numbers, but it still took me a bit to correlate the two, so I can sympathize. ;->

    Do whatever works for you! :D

    Uwk
    who's seen some amazing results from folks just using the old keys and the new Decorator Mode :)
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  14. Smallcorners Well-Known Member

    Not bumping this or anything, really!
    Okay, maybe just a bit as someone asked me about it.
    Uwkete-of-Crushbone and Katz like this.
  15. Uwkete-of-Crushbone Well-Known Member

    Glad to be of service! :D

    Uwk
    who thanks you for bumping it...even though I think the links to this have been fixed in the Decorator's Resource sticky ;)
  16. Uwkete-of-Crushbone Well-Known Member

    And for those wondering, "What's a number line? Haven't seen one of those since before training bras," I'll try to illustrate without having to insert another image... ;->

    Negative Numbers..........Positive Numbers
    ...-5...-4...-3...-2...-1... 0...1...2...3...4...5...
    <--|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|----|----|----|----|----|---->

    The only way I remember this stuff myself is that going to the right increases a number, no matter what's in front of it, whether it's a (-) or a (+). So, just as 5.87 is larger, a bigger number than 4.87, since 5.87 is farther to the right on the number line, then -3.87 is a larger number than -4.87, since -3.87 is farther to the right on the number line.

    So, whenever you see a bunch of those very aggravating negative numbers in a layout file (like I'm dealing with currently...sigh), just keep in mind that if some item is starting at coordinates that look like this:

    -2.34567891,-1.09876543,-6.78910112

    which can always be reduced to something more sane, like:

    -2.35,-1.10,-6.79

    if you want to move such an object further west, up, and south, you need to make them look like this:

    -1.35,-0.10,-5.79

    See? Easy-peasy! :D

    Uwk
    /ducking_rapidly

    EDIT: The way I keep "Is it East or West I need to move it to? What do I do with the numbers -- ah! 'Go West, young [person]!' So, increase the number to go West!" and "Everyone wants to head South for the winter, so increase the number to head something South." Up and Down should be obvious (except even there, going from a big-looking negative number to a smaller-looking negative number actually increases the value, so it'll head Up, height-wise). ;->
    Rosyposy likes this.
  17. Rosyposy Well-Known Member

    Just a note: my layouts are currently saved to
    C:\Users\Public\Daybreak Game Company\Installed Games\EverQuest II\saved_house_layouts
    Uwkete-of-Crushbone likes this.
  18. Uwkete-of-Crushbone Well-Known Member

    Yeah, that should work, as long as both the game and whatever editing method you're using can access them. :)

    If you have any toons with houses you're decorating on Test server, that would mean an extra step:

    C:\Users\Public\Daybreak Game Company\Installed Games\EverQuest II\TestServer\saved_house_layouts

    since even more than Thurgadin, Test server is its own world, set aside. ;)

    Uwk
    Rosyposy likes this.
  19. Brunhild Member

    Does anyone know how well this works in Windows 11?
    Uwkete-of-Crushbone likes this.
  20. Uwkete-of-Crushbone Well-Known Member

    No idea; I barely tolerate 10 because it came with my laptop. :-/

    If Notepad hasn't changed (/Dalek_voice "You can only use this if you subscribe every week to it."), it should still work. :)

    Uwk
    still Win7 after all these years :)
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