Mistal's Notepad (or Wordpad) Editing!

A big "Thank You!" shout out to the original poster of this guide to editing the layout file using Notepad: Mistal. Mist, I hereby apologize for stealing this and reprinting it, but you did such an awesome, helpful job on it, and I'm not sure how to find it again in the old forum, so...thanks for letting me steal--er, reprise it! I did do a tiny bit of adjusting to bring it more up to date (was originally posted in 2009; such adjustments are usually in [square brackets]). The vast majority of the words and pictures here are hers. --Uwk

Beware, this can get really long. ;->

[And I don't help with that...I'll try to keep it in one submission here. --Uwk]

[...as soon as I can find that excellent posting on how to properly submit images. This will be really image-heavy, and I'm still very new to all that... :-/ --Uwk]

MODERN (02/08/15) EDIT: Over the years (!) since submitting this, I've had occasions to simplify all this a lot in other posts, so I'll try to do a one-page summary at the very end. If you want a real basic thumbnail, go to one of the last posts (or at least, the most recent ones), do not pass Go, do not--whoops, sorry...at any rate, the bare bones'll be there, and it'll say "BARE BONES" at the beginning of it. If it's still confusing, hopefully the Long Form here might still be useful.

Uwk

[::sigh:: Okay, let's try this again... :-/

Beware, this is image-heavy, but most are JPeGs. ;-> --Uwk]

EDITING LAYOUT FILES ~ by Mistal

Okay, so everyone has heard about being able to rotate things on the z axis and many other wonderful benefits of the new [in 2009] layout files; however, if some of you opened a layout file, then pick yourself up off the floor, it's not as bad as it looks.

I am going to start from the very beginning ... a very good place to start.

The first thing I suggest you do is play with this, it will take a little getting used to, so start with something simple like a single object and then expand from there.

Place your object in your house; for my example, I will be using a bookcase. For reference purposes, I have lined the bookcase up with the floor lines and the bookcase faces North.

Next, you can save the file in two ways: first by typing in /house, which will bring up your house window. On it are many buttons, but the two you really need are Save Layout and Load Layout. Click Save Layout and name your file.


[my apologies; the picture went wonky and small on me, and apparently ate part of my graphic. The Load Layout button {second from the left; you'll need that, too} is next to the Save Layout one. --Uwk]

The other option is to type in the manual command /save_layout <filename>.

[NEW UWKNOTE: You can also use macro buttons for this; I usually do. Just name one macro button something like Save Bookcase and the other Load Bookcase and put in the appropriate commands. --Uwk]

Note: Files are NOT case sensitive.

You will get a message in chat saying the layout has been successful.

Okay, so now for the fun part... Your layout files will be located in:

C:\Program Files\Sony\EverQuest II\saved_house_layouts

Or

C:\Program Files\Sony\EverQuest II\TestServer\saved_house_layouts for the Test and Testcopy servers.

[NEW UWKNOTE: This, of course, was eons ago, before SOE parted ways with SONY and changed its name to Daybreak Games...and, of course, you may have named your game directory something else entirely from the default example. Just know that ...\Sony\... won't be part of the official name any more. --Uwk]

Open this folder and right-click the file, then select Open With; you can then choose Notepad or Wordpad to edit your layout file. [If it looks at you funny and doesn't bring up that option, then open up Notepad, go to File, then Open, then it'll bring up an Open window of some sort {my system is Win XP, so that's what I'm used to (EDIT: I've since upgraded to Win7, but there's really not much difference, imho)}, which you can then use to track down the problem-child file. Use All Files. --Uwk]

For my example I have called my layout file Bookcase, then opened the file using Notepad.

[UWKNOTE: recommendation: if you have more than one house, like so many do these days, you might want to name it something related to that character, as well as that house. For now, this should be okay. ;-> --Uwk]

Your file contents will look something like this:

[UWKNOTE: These are a bit different from Mistal's original numbers, since they've added a few new ones to the ID. DO NOT MESS WITH THE ID NUMBERS {the ones without decimal points}; I don't know what that would do, perhaps make your item not exist any more. :-/ --Uwk]
[NEW UWKNOTE, 09/03/14: according to JesDyr's write-up on the Layout Editor and many folks' advice on working with it, you can, indeed, mess with the ID numbers without destroying anything. But they are better people than I, and know their stuff better. Until you do, too, I'd recommend being very careful with stuff, and taking it all one step at a time. :-/ --Uwk]

6,Version Number
3860454162,qey_ph_1r01
2117642317, Unique House ID.
1405124322,45770784,0.07,0.00,3.36,-89.98,0.00,0.00,1.00, false,"a pristine standard ash bookcase"

[UWKNOTE: and yes, in the actual file, there will be a lot of huge numbers in there; numbers, then decimal points, then 8 numbers after each decimal point. Mistal has trimmed considerably...don't let the big numbers throw you, though. You can trim, too, in your layout file without hurting anything. --Uwk]

Okay, so the first thing I am going to do is take you through the numbers; each number for each type of movement is divided by a comma and has a decimal point.

That last line of text and numbers is the one we are interested in:

1405124322,45770784,0.07,0.00,3.36,-89.98,0.00,0.00,1.00, false,"a pristine standard ash bookcase"

Okay, the first and second numbers are the item IDs (these are unique to every item; even items that are the same will have their own ID numbers).

1405124322,45770784,0.07,0.00,3.36,-89.98,0.00,0.00,1.00, false,"a pristine standard ash bookcase"

The 3rd number, the first with a decimal point, moves the item East and West (west is to my right and east is to my left, remember the bookcase is currently facing north):

1405124322,45770784,0.07,0.00,3.36,-89.98,0.00,0.00,1.00, false,"a pristine standard ash bookcase"

I changed this to (increased number slides item West):

1405124322,45770784,1.07,0.00,3.36,-89.98,0.00,0.00,1.00, false,"a pristine standard ash bookcase"

As we can see, the bookcase has moved to the west of where it was.



[UWKNOTE: you can certainly do a lot of this stuff using the regular move item commands, but this is a run-down of what all the numbers mean, and what all you can do with them. Certainly, by the time you have a Floor item sideways, or upside-down, or askew, or whatever it doesn't want to do naturally, you might have to use the numbers just to adjust something "simple." I'd suggest doing all your simple moves first, and just do the fancy stuff at the very end, but read on... --Uwk]

Which I changed to (decreased number slides item east):

1405124322,45770784,-1.07,0.00,3.36,-89.98,0.00,0.00,1.00, false,"a pristine standard ash bookcase"


Okay, now for the 4th number; this moves the item up and down (float/sink): [along the Y-axis {and after several comments about this, it turns out it's actually the Z-axis. If you don't know X/Y graph systems, "fuhgeddaboutit!" If you do, apparently the X-axis is West/East, the Y-axis is North/South (both laid out on the floor) and the Z-axis is, indeed, up and down} --Uwk]

1405124322,45770784,0.07,0.00,3.36,-89.98,0.00,0.00,1.00, false,"a pristine standard ash bookcase"

Which I changed to (increased number floats item up):

1405124322,45770784,0.07,1.00,3.36,-89.98,0.00,0.00,1.00, false,"a pristine standard ash bookcase"

[UWKNOTE: you'll notice she also changed the first number back to where it was, in regards to East/West. In this example item, she just messes about with one number at a time, and returns the others to what they were originally...except for at the end. Advanced stuff there! ;-> --Uwk]

Then to this (decreased number sinks item down):

1405124322,45770784,0.07,-1.00,3.36,-89.98,0.00,0.00,1.00, false,"a pristine standard ash bookcase"

[We continue! ]

Which brings us to our 5th number, which moves items north and south:

1405124322,45770784,0.07,0.00,3.36,-89.98,0.00,0.00,1.00, false,"a pristine standard ash bookcase"

Which I changed to (increased number slides it south):

1405124322,45770784,0.07,0.00,4.36,-89.98,0.00,0.00,1.00, false,"a pristine standard ash bookcase"


And then changed to this (decreased number slides it north):

1405124322,45770784,0.07,0.00,2.36,-89.98,0.00,0.00,1.00, false,"a pristine standard ash bookcase"


Okay, next is our 6th number, which rotates things clockwise and counter-clockwise; increasing the number turns it clockwise (note the start number was in the negative) while decreasing the number turns the item counter-clockwise:

1405124322,45770784,0.07,0.00,2.36,-89.98,0.00,0.00,1.00, false,"a pristine standard ash bookcase"

Which I changed to (increased number rotates item clockwise):

1405124322,45770784,0.07,0.00,2.36,-69.98,0.00,0.00,1.00, false,"a pristine standard ash bookcase"

[UWKNOTE: since we're moving stuff by degrees here, which are really teeny, do a bunch at a time. Mistal moved it by 20 degrees; I like to use increments of 15, but whatever. BIG moves here if you want to see any changes any time soon. --Uwk]

Then changed to (decreased number rotates item counter-clockwise) [making a negative number bigger decreases it --Uwk]:

1405124322,45770784,0.07,0.00,2.36,-109.98,0.00,0.00,1.00, false,"a pristine standard ash bookcase"


The 7th number is where it all starts to happen. Think of this in terms of degrees [again], 90, 180, 270, etc., but you can use any number in between. [see my Note above --Uwk]

The 7th number tilts east to west:

1405124322,45770784,0.07,0.00,3.36,-89.98,0.00,0.00,1.00, false,"a pristine standard ash bookcase"

Which I changed to (increased number tilts item to the west):

1405124322,45770784,0.07,0.00,3.36,-89.98,90.00,0.00,1.00, false,"a pristine standard ash bookcase"


Then changed to (decreased number tilts item to the east):

1405124322,45770784,0.07,0.00,3.36,-89.98,-90.00,0.00,1.00, false,"a pristine standard ash bookcase"

Now you will also see here that when the object rotates, it sinks into the floor, so when placing stuff like this, you will also need to raise it up; again, playing with this and practice will help a lot.

And just for a bit of fun:
1405124322,45770784,0.07,0.00,3.36,-89.98,25.00,0.00,1.00, false,"a pristine standard ash bookcase"


Okay! The 8th number tilts the item north to south.

From this:

1405124322,45770784,0.07,0.00,3.36,-89.98,0.00,0.00,1.00, false,"a pristine standard ash bookcase"

I changed it to (increased numbers tilts item to the north):

1405124322,45770784,0.07,0.00,3.36,-89.98,0.00,90.00,1.00, false,"a pristine standard ash bookcase"

Again, note how when the item is tilted, it sinks, and make allowances for this by raising the height; I would suggest that you first tilt the item, then start to play with the height adjustments. All items have a point from which it is tilted; this may sometimes result in the sinking you see above, or not, as it also is shown below.

And then to (decreasing number tilts item to the south):

1405124322,45770784,0.07,0.00,3.36,-89.98,0.00,-90.00,1.00, false,"a pristine standard ash bookcase"


Finally, onto our last and 9th number, which is the size of the item:

1405124322,45770784,0.07,0.00,3.36,-89.98,0.00,0.00,1.00, false,"a pristine standard ash bookcase"

Changed to (increased number makes item bigger):

1405124322,45770784,0.07,0.00,3.36,-89.98,0.00,0.00,5.00, false,"a pristine standard ash bookcase"


Then to (decreased number makes item smaller):

1405124322,45770784,0.07,0.00,3.36,-89.98,0.00,0.00,-5.00, false,"a pristine standard ash bookcase"

[UWKNOTE: Sorry, Mist, but this is a wee bit misleading nowadays. Most house items and building blocks {an exciting new category of items that came along way after this original post} will only go down to 0.50 in size, so that's probably what we're all looking at here. You can type in just about anything, numbers-wise, and it'll still only go down to half its original size, or up to 6 times its original size {or if you're lucky, 12 times. Don't count on it; ymmv per house item or building block. Some only go up to 3 times. Experiment.}. --Uwk]

I have been using single number increments for illustration purposes; however, adjusting the numbers of each set after the decimal point will give you smaller and more subtle movements. [this is especially useful for heights; not so much for degree movements. Also, sometimes things get pouty about "whole" numbers; hence the -89.98 rather than straight-up -90.00 for the rotating degrees. If something you've placed starts "dancing," that could be why. Give it something like 179.9 or 180.1 instead of 180 degrees, for example, if you've "flipped" something upside-down in the tilt, and it should shut up and behave. The .9 or .1 changes are so teeny, they're not likely to be noticed by our merely human eyes, but computers love that kind of stuff. ;-> --Uwk]

Also remember that any changes you make need to be saved in Notepad or Wordpad before you load the layout file to implement the changes. You can have the file open while loading the file, so it's easy to keep making small changes as you go. [just to be paranoid, though, I like to close the Notepad file when I'm Saving any changes to the layout in-game, so it'll "take." --Uwk]

And just because now we can ...

1405124322,45770784,1.07,1.00,2.36,-60.98,25.00,-40.00,2.00, false,"a pristine standard ash bookcase"

So little touches like this are now possible!

[I've done that {thanks again, Mistal! } in my aquariums to give the idea of stuff "floating" midway in the water column. --Uwk]

[::Uwkete threatens the forum with a fate worse than death!::
What designates a "character," anyway?? >:-(
Okay, there's no more graphics in this one; it should let me do what I need to now. Back to Mistal! --Uwk]


QUICK REFERENCE GUIDE
These change with
item direction
Number
Position 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th |7th| |8th| 9th
Number (ID no), (ID no), 0.07, 0.00, 3.36, -89.98, 0.00, 0.00, 1.00
Movement type Item ID Item ID Slides Float Slide Rotate Tilt Tilt Size
Number value Increase West Up South Clockwise East North Big
Number value Decrease East Down North C/Clockwise West South Small

I hope that this has been useful for you; if you have any comments or suggestions, please feel free to let me know. I can be found in game or send me a PM on the official forums, I usually hang out in the Homeshow forum.

Please be aware that this is a very first basic guide for people just starting to use the layout files. It is based on a bookcase which has been set to face north, and I am only changing one number to affect the bookcase. It is reset back to its first position before moving onto the next number. However, while most of the numbers do follow the strict pattern, numbers 6 and 7 are relative to the item. By this I mean that if the bookcase were facing a different direction, then the tilt would not go East or West as described here. But playing with this and experience is the best thing.

Some things to note:
Once you have an item rotated and tilted, it is possible to move the item by simply right clicking *move*; it will retain the rotation and tilt as you move it and replace it, which is great when moving things to another room. However, if you pick it up into your inventory, the item returns to its normal shape and size. [UWKNOTE: either this has changed since Mistal wrote it, or it's just me, but I haven't found that to be true; the minute I try adjusting anything in-game once I've tweaked it, it goes red, pouts, refuses to play, etc. :-( Let me know if it works for anyone else! ;-> --Uwk]

[NEW UWKNOTE: I've since found, having more decorating experience since I last edited these, that the item going red in the face and pouting and so forth will very often, if not always, depend on where your "cameraman" is. If you're not at a sufficient height above an item, for example, it can get cranky. This is a case where the very old-fashioned method of using scaffolding still has value; I usually use either a Narrow Divider {tilted, so I can use it as a ramp}, Stair, or Tile of Polished Ice {or of Ice from the Marketplace if I was silly and forgot to pick some up from the New Halas City Festival... } for the sheer fact of its translucency {i.e., I can see through it}. --Uwk]

I hope my little guide helps to start you off; I am in the process of writing a more advanced version for changing multiple
numbers, etc., which I hope to have done soon. [UWKNOTE: Mistal, have you done this and posted it? --Uwk]

Happy Decorating!!
Mistal
Everfrost Server ~ Blind Guardians
Test Server ~ Norrathian Designers Inc
~*~ Special thanks to Gracey (Test/Oasis) for the use of her house ~*~
[UWKNOTE: old info for her; not sure if she's still in those locations --Uwk]

Okay, something happened with the Quick Reference Guide...gonna try this again (crossing fingers):

QUICK REFERENCE GUIDE
These change with
item direction
Number
Position 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th |7th| |8th| 9th
Number (ID no), (ID no), 0.07, 0.00, 3.36, -89.98, 0.00, 0.00, 1.00
Movement type Item ID Item ID Slides Float Slide Rotate Tilt Tilt Size
Number value Increase West Up South Clockwise East North Big
Number value Decrease East Down North C/Clockwise West South Small

Criminelities, I give up...I don't remember it being this persnickety in the old Forums.

Basically, the numbers that "change with item direction" are the two Tilt numbers, the 7th and 8th ones. The first two are ID numbers and can be ignored/left alone, the 3rd and 4th slide and raise the item West/East and Up/Down, respectively; the 5th slides it South/North, and the 6th one rotates it, all of which you can do using the simple moves in-game. To tilt it funny, you need the 7th and 8th, and to try to size it beyond the bounds of the usual, the 9th.
EDIT: nowadays, you can "tilt it funny" just using the in-game stuff (Decorating Mode, iirc), but I usually just use that to get something close, then go into the Notepad file anyway to adjust it (like Pitching a Floor item roughly 80 degrees or so with the in-game feature, then going into the file and making it 89.99 to get it more properly straight up and down). And you could always increase or decrease the size of an item by using Shift+Mouse Scroll Wheel.

EDIT: Confession Time: nowadays, I actually tend to use Sennen's Open Source Editor for the number-crunching, or even JesDyr's when I need something moved in a diagonal direction, or some other function that Sennen's doesn't cover yet. But Notepad is still a very valid method nonetheless. It's just that the others have a more spreadsheet-y feel and function to them, so organizing the lines by category (sadly, only one at a time, unlike Excel or the others) is a quick and easy snap. And the numbers, no matter which version you use, are still the same numbers.

If it's any consolation, the original table looked beautiful in either Notepad or Excel...especially the spreadsheet. But it wouldn't even take my typing and spacing directly into the forum edit post box. Sigh. :-/

Uwk

I would like to point out -

From http://www.eq2designers.com/?page_id=88

Excellent point! Thanks for that; forgot about the comma decimal "point" there (I should've put it in a comment note).

Uwk

A few things to add from someone who is not a good planner to others out there who aren't either ( or to those wishing to change something in an already mostly finished, or finished place ).
When you Save your layout I save it Twice, Once with the Name of my character or house then again with the word test added to it, no spaces like this 1st save house file Morgie, 2nd saved house file Morgietest.

For a house full of the same items you have already, we will use the ash bookcase for example, and you have 20 of them already in your house. Place your last one on the floor NEAR where you want it, then save the house twice ( as described above ).
Go into the save house files, look for the TEST named one.
Open with notepad.
Then click EDIT.
Then click FIND. Type in ash bookcase.
Then click FIND NEXT and keep clicking till it tells you there are no more ( my computer beeps loudly at me when this happens ).
That LAST one is the one you just placed down.
Change it to how you want it and click SAVE, don't use SAVE AS !!!!
You can simply MINIMIZE the window and then click Load Morgietest ( of course using the name you used) and see if it worked, if not save the house layout again and then make adjustments, it's very easy to maximize the window again to change things.
I found this very handy placing items and then using the notepad editor for doing things for others and in my own homes!

THANK YOU MISTAL AND UWK for doing this and for reviving it respectfully!! This, to me anyway, is easy to use and understand! One of these years i'll learn the layout editor, but for now, I love this option!

::blush:: You're welcome! Glad it helps (it's ALWAYS helped me; thanks again, Mistal!)! ;->

Another thing you can do in the file, though it usually doesn't last beyond a few saves, is literally cut and paste, like you would in any other word processor. Just make sure you get everything in the line you want to move, but you can then place it where you want, to help things make sense. I have places that are almost at the max, item-wise (still hope I can get into them these days!), and when I'm making adjustments to one room or another, it really helps having all the Misty Blue Tiles, for instance, in the same area of the file itself (this will NOT affect the items' placements; you have to tweak the numbers themselves for that). That also helps you see all the involved numbers in rows right close to each other, and you can tell at a glance (once you get good at this) just what item you're looking at (okay, this one has the biggest West number, so that must mean that tile, etc.);->

Now the hols are over for a bit, I can get back to the Elementile Challenge, and believe me, this will be used heavily. ;->

Uwk

One thing I tend to do regarding different file versions, is, perhaps, a bad habit: if I have to change something in the same house, but in a different room, for example, I tend to make completely different files, with different room names, etc., so Uwk might have the files: Uwk_LvgRm (Uwk's living room), Uwk_Bkyd (backyard), Uwk_Ktchn (kitchen), etc., rather than one or two for the entire house, and it can clutter up the Load box something fierce. At least there are scroll arrows... ;->

And when you have as many alts as I do, and they all want custom whatevers, the saved_layouts folder can get huge, too. ;->

Another thing you can do, if all you want to do is peek at something without worrying about changing it, is Save As-> Uwk_file.txt, for example. But the layout files themselves have no extension, no Uwk_file.xxx; they're just "bare" (Uwk_file).

NEW UWKNOTE (2022): If you're using either JesDyr's or Sennen's excellent spreadsheet-like layout editors, you can save those as well to something like Uwk_file.xls. It will take some tweaking to get everything looking like a good Excel (or similar) file, but it's a way of setting a version in a moment of time in stone: the layout editor itself probably won't recognize it, but at least you'll have a "snapshot" of it that can't be changed, even accidentally.

Uwk

I had an issue trying to use Notepad. It wasn't saving the changes.

Just a bit of an FYI.. if you're using Windows 7 there is apparently a built in protocol that won't allow you to change 'programme' files. (Not sure if anyone has posted on this..) The only work around I can find is to run Notepad under administrator and go about it that way.

Oy! Thanks for that head's up; we're about to get a new 'puter, with Windows 7 (because Windows NINE isn't out yet...), and I didn't know that. Silly idea; not sure what Microsoft was thinking, but it's good to know. :-/

Thanks again!

Uwk

Okay, let's try this:



That should work. :-/

Uwk

LOL .. you are most welcome although I can't say how good it will be now after all the updates but if it provided a starting point then I was glad it helped

Mistal x

Excellent point, Mist; what with the new Pitch and Roll, all this may be academic, since all of the basic maneuvers we did back in the old days can now be replicated with a mouse and keyboard. One thing, though; I still am a bit leery of the new Pitch and Roll, simply because it reminds me a lot of flight simulators, the ones where I'd either pancake coming in for a landing or auger in. It's awfully darn sensitive, and my old-fashioned self will probably still need this for comfort's sake.

Another thing this is still useful for is trying to move things beyond a ceiling, or just really high (Mistmoore Estates, anyone?); lots of times, you're limited by your "camera operator" as to how far up you can get something. So, I placed a teleport pad, for example, as high up as I could get it normally, then saved the layout file, opened it with Notepad, and told the file exactly how far up I wanted the pad to be, using the numbers. Once I got it pretty close, I stepped on the first pad, blipped up to the second, and re-positioned the second as normal. Worked like a charm! ;->

Uwk

I know what you mean, Although it is a really good update for the game personally I don't like the in game pitch / roll I find small little adjustments difficult and much prefer the fine tuning the layout editor / file offers.

Just a little tip for those who are new to layouts, create a macro (hit O on your keyboard in game and select macros tab)
in the command line type /load_layout <name of your file> this will give you a quick "one click" to load your changes in game

Happy Decorating

Mistal x

Brilliant! I've created macros for just plain ol' /save_layout and /load_layout to save myself a few steps from Notepad to EQ2, but I never thought to actually do one for the actual file I was working on at the time. Nowadays, since every one of my 36 toons is finally getting around to /claiming their Mistmoore Estates (and I'm actually...gasp...BUYING some prestige places using SC; I'm so embarrassed... :-/), I finally got smart about naming/reducing the number of layout files for us all, so it should be easier to do that macro you suggest, as well as more necessary. ;->

Thanks again!

Uwk

A couple more notes...when Mistal was talking about "[all] items have a point from which it is tilted," she was referring to the anchor point of an item...this is the point that the object spins around, and why houses will eat things unexpectedly (basically, the anchor point got shoved down/in/etc. too far, and now nothing will display. If you can, turn the item around and see if that helps). Most objects have it in the middle somewhere, but if you've ever had to place a Basic Table that you get as part of your first house "quest," you'll notice it's off one leg of the table. Weird.

Another note: on the line she used as an example, there's that word "false": all that means is that the item is somewhere out in the house (Wall, Floor, Ceiling, wherever); if it were "true," that'd mean it's in the Moving Crate ("in" the house itself and not in the House Vault, but not really "in" in...though why one is "false" and the other "true" is beyond me). :-/

More notes as I think about 'em! ;->

Uwk

Marina Mawr said:

I had an issue trying to use Notepad. It wasn't saving the changes.

Just a bit of an FYI.. if you're using Windows 7 there is apparently a built in protocol that won't allow you to change 'programme' files. (Not sure if anyone has posted on this..) The only work around I can find is to run Notepad under administrator and go about it that way.

I was looking at this issue myself, when I tried to save a simple .txt file to C:/ (the root directory). Wasn't so much an issue back in the day, but apparently now Win7 is uber-paranoid about letting anyone do that; said I needed Administrator permission to do so (even though I AM an administrator; this is only Home Edition Win7, and this is the way it was set up), but I could save all sorts of things within the EQ2 folder I set up (not in Program Files any more; everyone's chimed in about that and doesn't like the idea these days), and it never gacked on me when I did some layout file experimentation...but that was deep in the bowels of the EQ2 stuff, and maybe that made a difference. /shrug

Uwk
still trying to figure out this Win7 stuff, but still firmly convinced it's better than any of that Win8 nonsense ;->

Win 7 is from what I hear Bumping this cuz people still want to find it easily